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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Unclean house, what to say not to offend?!

90 replies

WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 12/08/2011 16:48

What do you say to someone whose house is really dirty? I suppose I could just say nothing but it makes me not want to visit which is sad for all of us. I take my children there (can't stop doing that) but even on my own I find it awful and unhygenic and try not to touch surfaces and things.

There are 2 men living there and the oldest does stuff around the house but only certain things. He does vaccum the living room (just the main area not in the corners or between furniture) and he does the washing up and the ironing (obsessively). The younger one does everything under protest and I don't think he does much more then the washing up occassionally.

The are both healthy and fit and I think the problem is that they just don't know what needs doing, how to do it, and how often.

I have wanted to say something for years (since they have lived alone) but just don't know how to put it.

I thought the best thing would be to mention things as I see them rather then have a big discussion about it. But then yesterday when I went to visit and younger one was making drinks. I didn't get a chance to think about it the words just came out . . . I said "jesus those mugs are filthy!" Blush I didn't mean to be quite so blunt but they really were and the words just came out! The were lined with dark brown, almost like someone had wiped thick dark chocolate around the inside of the mugs. So I tried to soften it by saying how he could get it out but he was obviously pissed off and just grunted at me Blush. I really didn't mean to hurt his feelings but fucking hell I have to drink from them!

The problem isn't that they are stained, it's that things don't get washed up properly so they are actually dirty. They get put in the sink in water and then a while later taken out. That's it. No wiping around or anything!

Don't get me started on the bathroom or the pet food!

You're probably all going to say I am really horrible because of what I said but I really didn't mean to be rude. I've tried subtle and it has no effect.

OP posts:
Original poster
WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 13/08/2011 15:33

tadpoles They had a kitchen update and I thought that would be a new start but they just carried on the same way as before. They don't know what to do, how to do it, how often to do it. It's like it doesn't occur to them.

OP posts:
SaffronCake · 13/08/2011 15:39

It's looking like you're out of options, it's going ot have to be a good talking to. The soft approach isn't being noticed.

As they are your Dad and brother I'm presuming that you grew up in the same house as them and Mum and that they still live together as a family unit but that you moved out at some point and Mum died after that?

Original poster
WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 13/08/2011 15:59

Yes that's right Saffron

OP posts:
Nancy66 · 13/08/2011 16:02

If it's a council house aren't they obliged to keep it in a reasonable state of cleanliness?

Original poster
WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 13/08/2011 16:04

That made me laugh Nancy! Mostly because I've seen inside the next door neighbours house! Yes I guess they are but have you ever seen these places on grime busters or whatever? They have to be really bad for anyone to take any notice. It's nothing really compared to some places you see with animal poo all over the floor! It's not crazy cluttered/rats or anything like that.

OP posts:
Nancy66 · 13/08/2011 16:19

....or a parrot that isn't caged and just flies around dropping shit over every surface. That episode still gives me nightmares.

I think, as it's family, you can speak up. You could just say something like 'the housework seems to have got on top of you a bit - how about I come round and help you blitz the place and after that it will be easier to maintain.'

SaffronCake · 13/08/2011 16:25

In that case you may find that this sort of line is the one to take...

I miss Mum, you miss Mum, we all miss Mum and I know Mum would be really flattered that we all love her so much but she'd also be pretty unhappy about how uncared for you have let yourselves get. It's been hard since she died and I felt it too, but this period of not caring about yourselves has got to stop. She'd be appauled if she saw you eating off plates with yesterdays food still on them and I think if she'd realised you would find it so hard to just stay healthy then she'd have helped you get prepared more. It's not right Dad, Bruv, I love you and I hate seeing you like like this, like neglected cats waiting for the RSPCA man to save them. It breaks my heart to keep mincing round the subject, bringing the kids over with thier Happy Meals all ready to go and not letting them accept a proper lunch from Grandad and Uncle because it's not hygienic. I love my kids but I love you too. I really really want us all to share lunch and stuff, like it should be. Dirt is such a stupid thing to be coming between us. The kids love you! Enough, please. It's horrible to watch. Please, please let me help you. Let me help you blitz this place and let me help you sort out a routine so cleaning is piss easy and you can be proud of your home. God knows one of you might even meet a lady one day and then what would you do? I'd love to see you happier. It's horrible watching you rot, and that might sound strong but it's how it looks.

Then as I said be prepared to face the fall out because offence might well be taken.

Original poster
WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 13/08/2011 17:20

'the housework seems to have got on top of you a bit - how about I come round and help you blitz the place and after that it will be easier to maintain.'

Hmm will think about that. Although I'm not sure how I would get the time to help someone else to do their housework! I am a full time mum and also work part time at night. My DH works full time and does overtime most evenings. The one evening he doesn't he has a hobby evening. I can't even find time to parp!

OP posts:
Nancy66 · 13/08/2011 17:49

I just meant if you help them as a one off - instructing as you go - then (hopefully) they can do it after that.

SaffronCake · 13/08/2011 18:37

Oh no one said you had to help much. The trick is to make 'em feel supported, not to get on down and become a maid service. Think of yourself as a consultant.

Original poster
WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 13/08/2011 19:40

Consultant in washing up and related services Grin I like that!

OP posts:
Flisspaps · 13/08/2011 19:46

I like Saffron's approach - particularly if your Mum liked things to be clean and tidy.

And if it is really that dirty, then you're going to have to be honest and say you can't take the kids around until they do something about it, because it isn't safe.

Original poster
WhoseGotMyEyebrows · 13/08/2011 19:53

Fliss My mum wasn't that clean either really so I think they had low standards to begin with.

OP posts:
Fluffycloudland77 · 13/08/2011 20:07

Hmm if theres low standards to begin with they just might not notice/care.

I used to work in the NHS doing home visits and some people live in shit holes but dont seem to care at all. Others do care but are just too old to do anything about it and the home carers are just there to toilet and feed and put to bed.

They are adults at the end of the day and they can do as they please with the house but I do sympathise with you not wanting to have a drink there.

mathanxiety · 13/08/2011 20:32

They might need Flylady -- the essence of Flylady (if you cut through the exuberant American positivity, etc) is that anyone can get clean and stay clean, starting today, and no-one is 'behind' to the point where they and their home can't be salvaged.

She starts with one small habit, and in this case it is the best one possible -- the clean sink. Everything is taken out of the sink and it is thoroughly cleaned, disinfected, scoured. Everything in it is thoroughly cleaned, dried and put away. You do this every day for a month until it becomes second nature, and gradually build up other good habits too. You get to the point where nothing gets dumped in the sink any more and just left there.

They will have to start with the sort of 15 minutes at a time blitz the Flylady recommends if the place is that bad, but 15 minutes at a time is very doable.

Since they evidently have no idea what needs cleaning, how to clean what needs cleaning, or when, they will need a thorough checklist and a calendar, with specific details of the jobs that need attending to every day of the week.

I like the sound of SaffronCake's little talk as a starter. I think talking with them about their feelings wrt your mum would be a very good plan. I wonder if there are depression issues they could be helped with too, behind it all? But no matter -- having a clean home and regular habits and busyness is good for your mental state. (It is also good for you physically as someone is going to come down with a stomach bug one of these days; I would worry about your dad as he grows older eating off filthy plates).

SaffronCake · 14/08/2011 02:06

I know you said your Mum's cleaning routine was borderline, but nostalgia is a funny thing. Carry on as though you thought it was fine (and somewhat misremember how little she really did in the process). Given that by the time you've laid it all out for them they'll probably be feeling more than a little ashamed the chances are they'll go along with it and start cleaning more.

I've come across Flylady before and if, as mathanxiety says, you can ignore the annoying Americanness, it's a really simple but effective habit forming tool.

LolaRennt · 14/08/2011 02:41

I think you should tell your brother he is being very unfair by not helping out with his elderly father and keeping the home clean. If he grunts, tell him he's an adult and its disgusting.

Until then I would drive round and pick up dad to come over to your house. Brother sounds like an arse.

cherrysodalover · 14/08/2011 02:49

To make you feel better...my mil house is worse than this- you can hardly see the floor for dirt in the kitchen and the sink is like a slime pit....bathrooms are never cleaned, so towels will be used for a year or more without being washed.It is really sad but also you cannot accept any invite to have anything as the plates are filthy as is the fridge.

We tried to clean up one weekend and slept over to find mouse droppings in the bed we slept in...and all over the living room floor.But is did help somehow.
When we offered to help she was grateful but it took our entire weekend and within a while it was back to how it was.It is just how she has always lived and there are mh issues but the fact is also that she just does not want to clean-my poor Dh was brought up in that filthy environment.Sometimes I do find myself judging on that one.

But anyway we moved overseas when our ds was born so have not had to go round there to eat- we would refuse as it is a health hazard.

I think you can be direct and say no thanks to any offers and if pushed say you do not want to risk getting food poisoning.

springydaffs · 14/08/2011 04:41

I wish there was a name for this disorder. My friend has got it and her house is like the inside of a bin. she is a teacher and you would never know she has this disorder if you didn't go into her house.

I liked - oh blast, it's on the other page so I don't know the author - 'the housework seems to have got on top of you a bit' opener. Plus I think you should hire Saffron - I think she could negotiate any peace process on the planet.

ChippingIn · 14/08/2011 05:03

Does your brother work?

If not he has plenty of time, if he does he should have enough money to pay a cleaner once a fortnight.

Stop pussyfooting around him and get him told not to be such a filthy git.

Your Dad's face might crumble, but you can butter him up a bit by saying you know he does x,y & z and if only lazy git brother would pull his weight it would be fine.

I have a lot of sympathy with them (and you of course) losing your Mum, but you still have to act like a grown up and clean the house! I understand what you are saying about her not having been the best role model but when all is said and done, it doesn't take einstein to clean a loo.

CheerfulYank · 14/08/2011 05:49

Hmmph, Mathanxiety ! As if there's anything wrong with exuberant American positivity! :o

Flylady is great, it's true. I think a little speech and an offer to help is the only way to go. Best of luck ,OP!

LittleHousebytheRiver · 14/08/2011 07:47

springy it does have a name it is called Diogenes syndrome which is a misnomer as Diogenes was an ancient Greek philosopher who lived in a barrel and eschewed material goods. It is commoner in the elderly and is a combination of self neglect and hoarding along with reclusive behaviour. More apt is Plyushkin's syndrome called after a fictional Russian character.

It is quite common, and difficult to help unless environmental health get involved eg if there are rats or leaking pipes. Sometimes if someone has a MH problem they can be removed under a Section to get things cleaned up but for normal elderly who are not unwell and it is just a lifestyle choice it is hard to help. Interfering often causes real problems as well, as they then become suspicious and paranoid of visitors. Well meaning attempt to help by removing said elderly person and putting them in residential care often seems to reduce their life expectancy.

OP I don't think your relatives are in this category from your description. They have just got lower standards than average and an inadequate cleaning routine.

mathanxiety · 14/08/2011 22:01
CheerfulYank · 14/08/2011 22:25

:o Math

Stephen Fry made me laugh when he talked about the difference between Brits and Yanks. He said that when a new idea was broached most Yanks would be all "OOoh, let's try it!" While most Brits would say "oh, no no no no." Which is no doubt a gross overgeneralization. :) But yes, most of us (at least those in the midwest, and even those who consider themselves to be disgustingly cyncical) do have an aura of go-team positivity.

itwasthat · 14/08/2011 22:35

anyone ever watched 'how clean is your home?' absolutely filthy homes with god knows how many diseases breeding in every corner. have no doubt your kids shouldnt be playing around that house ... theres no excuse to live in filth ... unless you are physically/ mentally incapable of course ... only animals live in their own shit

get them some dvds of the series as a wake up call