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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Can we recover from this?

88 replies

ItAllHappensAtOnce · 20/07/2011 15:44

I first found out about my OH's infidelity when I was a few months pregnant. That was a year ago. He was contrite, distraught, and broke off with her immediately. (It was purely sexual). Then he had an affair with an old friend of his - I kept discovering texts and emails, he would swear every time that he would break up with her, that I was his first priority etc. Finally, he stopped it, and swore on our baby's life that he would not see her again. It finally stopped.

Now I find he has been planning an affair again. It didn't get anywhere because I discoverered it in the early stages, and I called the woman and explained that I had given him an ultimatum. She praised me for my dignity (oh the satisfaction of making that call!) and he managed to talk me out of walking out, with the baby. I was ready to leave and he now understands that I will go if it ever happens again.

Of course it will happen again.

What can I do to prevent it?

He is adamant that I am the one he wants to be with. He simply doesn't seem to be able to resist taking an easy opportunity when it arises. I have suggested that if I am not enough for him, why does he want to be in a relationship with me? He says his life will be over without me.

I have had a bit of counselling which has helped me to be more robust in myself and to devise some ways to rebuild my self-esteem. Very helpful.

Is it possible for a relationship to recover after this much broken trust?

I want our DD to have a sibling. He is and will be an exceptional father. I told him I will stay with him for DD's sake and he must try to earn my trust.

Is it possible to have a decent relationship without trust? I am seriously considering that it must be possible. We get on so well, we complement each other's strengths, we have good emotional intimacy and physical intimacy.

I am experiencing the extreme raw emotions of anger and hurt, also loneliness and failure, as you would expect. I really want to rebuild this, and he says he does too. But I have heard it before from him, and he has deceived me consistently.

I don't want to be told to leave him. I would like advice on how to make it work, and what to do to encourage him to take some responsibility for making me trust him again. Thanks for your help and gentleness.

OP posts:

AnyFucker · 20/07/2011 20:25

he doesn't want to be counselled out of the thrill he gets from cheating

he has demonstrated to you that he wants to carry on

whomovedmychocolate · 20/07/2011 20:41

Butwhyisthegingone - I'm not excusing cheating behaviour. I'm saying that unless one can get an insight into why a behaviour happens, it's hard to stop it happening again. He may not be able to make sense of what's happening and if he doesn't understand why he does what he does, it will keep happening.

That's not the same as saying 'it's fine to be a cheating ratbag'. But to judge without understanding is to close off the potential to change. One can hate the act without hating the person. The OP can love her husband but hate what he's doing but if she understands why he's doing it and what the triggers are, and if he is ready to understand his behaviour too, there's a chance he can change what he does and she can start to forgive him.

Original poster

ItAllHappensAtOnce · 20/07/2011 20:47

Well you lot tell it like it is, don't you?!

AnyFucker, you sum it up excellently. And yes, senior wrangler and others, I am VERY concerned about the effect on the children. Rosie you make an excellent point. I know parenting doesn't involve easy choices, but this really feels like a no-win situation. Go = DD sees Daddy once a fortnight, and I have the 24/7 parenting gig. Stay = DD risks growing up with a bizarre and damaging idea of how a couple relates to each other. As I said, at the moment I am exploring the possibilities and positives that might be involved with staying. I am aware I need to be very aware of the risks to DD and me emotionally, and prepared to take action to prevent them.

OP posts:

AnyFucker · 20/07/2011 20:53

wmmc, how many chances would you give him ?

whomovedmychocolate · 20/07/2011 20:59

None Anyfucker. For me, infidelity is a deal breaker. But that's my personal choice. I've been the cheater. I realise now the reasons why I did it but didn't at the time. I was given another chance but in my case, my cheating was a signal that I'd moved on from the relationship. It took my then husband a year or so to work that out. Poor bastard. :(

OP - none of us can tell you what to do. I would just counsel you to get professional help together if you do want to pursue this relationship further. You are going to have to see each other because of the children anyway so any talking you can do upfront is one less argument to have later on. :)

AnyFucker · 20/07/2011 21:02

The reason I asked that question, wmmc, is that the OP's husband has seen with his own eyes how hurt and devastated she has been made to feel by the consequences of his actions

and still he carries on

that takes a real special kind of cruelty, IMO

although, I agree outside professional help is required here, if only to assist OP in acknowledging that this man is a very poor role model for his daughter

tranquilitygardens · 20/07/2011 21:10

Itallhappenedatonce, you have to take into consideration if you leave, your ex may not want anything to do with your child at all, or may mess around and be unrealiable about contact, he may not want to pay maintenance etc, and you may be looking at 24/7/365 lone parenting, and have to go to school productions alone the lot!

That verses

Anxiety, mistrust, lack of confidence, you and your oh as bad role models of a marriage to your child/ren, your family time and finances being spent on the latest low life who thinks it is ok to see a mm and a possible bunny boiler situation, he may leave you for ow, std's etc... all the time him in control, but you get another child and a family that lives together.

tough choice, at least as a single parent your life is your own and you can rest easy in your bed at night, with no fear of an std!

whomovedmychocolate · 20/07/2011 21:12

Ah but has he understood the consequences? It's pretty easy to say to yourself 'shit I got caught but it'll blow over' if you are not forced to go through the consequences together and with an external observer watching you.

It does seem cruel to repeatedly cheat, but from his PoV I bet he thinks subconsciously 'well she's still here, so I guess it wasn't that bad'. He may not have actually realised what he's risking. Or maybe genuinely he's moved on and OP needs to reconcile that (and he needs to be more bloody honest about it).

Please don't think I'm on his side because I'm not.

AnyFucker · 20/07/2011 21:17

what decent human being doesn't understand how much it must hurt your so-called monogamous partner to cheat three times ??

I can see you are playing devil's advocate, wmc, and fair play to you

the thing is, I don't think this guy wants or needs an advocate

he has his own very effective advocate for disrespecting his wife....his massive sense of entitlement

AnyFucker · 20/07/2011 21:18

wmmc not wmc

lizziemun · 20/07/2011 21:40

If you stay you will have to accept that he does not love you, you're are just someone who cooks and cleans up after him. Not to mention a frequent vistor to the GUM clinic (have you been checked since he had 2 if 3 affairs in less the 2 yrs), someone to come home to when he has no one else to go home with.

AnyFucker · 20/07/2011 21:43

oh, I dunno, lizzie

I think a serial philanderer can still "love" his wife (in his own way)

he doesn't respect her though, which forms a massive part of love

Scottie87 · 20/07/2011 21:58

wmmc
....unless one can get an insight into why a behaviour happens, it's hard to stop it happening again. He may not be able to make sense of what's happening and if he doesn't understand why he does what he does, it will keep happening.

Exactly what a counsellor will say

tinker316 · 20/07/2011 21:59

U should go
He will keep doing it again & again!
U r worth so much more-

lizziemun · 20/07/2011 22:09

AnyFucker

I mean he will never love her as she wants to be loved as part of a loving family.

It will always be wife and baby/babies at home while he does exactly what he wants, when he wants. Playing happy family whenever OP decides she had enough and then him declaring his love for her and their children just until he can get away with doing all again.

AnyFucker · 20/07/2011 22:10

oh yes, lizzie, I agree with that

lizziemun · 20/07/2011 22:12

My mum put up with my dad do this for 25yrs before she threw him out.

AnyFucker · 20/07/2011 22:14

that is awful, lizzie

Spero · 20/07/2011 22:17

Can I just echo others who have said he is NOT an 'exceptional father'?

An 'exceptional father' (and I assume by this you mean 'exceptionally good') would NOT inflict pain and stress on the mother of his children.

So please cross that one off your list of 'plus points' immediately. From what you have said, he would actually be a very poor father and would teach his children corrosive and unhealthy lessons about relationships.

AnyFucker · 20/07/2011 22:22

lizzie, what made your mum get shut of him in the end ?

Blindcavesalamander · 20/07/2011 22:26

Oh :(

I'm sure we all want to be gentle with you, you sound lovely and thoughtful and nurturing and kind, but the thing is we don't want to be gentle with him because he doesn't sound any of the above. Can you see yourself as an old couple in an old peoples' home, really pleased you spent your life with him while he disappears for 'cocoa' with another old lady? It's not easy, you obviously do love and care for him and wish he would be faithful. If you really can't stand to be without him could you give him a last chance if he will either have some therapy himself for what seems like an addiction to extra marital sex (unless he would swear on your baby's life ...a revolting thing to do under any circumstances I can think of ....without actually meaning it in that moment) or couple tharapy with you. I think if you really are determined to give your relationship with him all you've got your best bet may be experienced professional help (and not just individual therapy for yourself as the main problem you have is his behaviour.

turquoisetumble · 20/07/2011 22:35

I would like advice on how to make it work, and what to do to encourage him to take some responsibility for making me trust him again.

It takes a certain type of man to cheat on a pregnant wife. Being pregnant is a particularly vulnerable time for most women - a time when they need extra care and reassurance. It says something major if a man cheats then. I know - I was married to one. They have a sense of entitlement (attention at all times) and a lack of compassion or that old fashioned word - duty - towards the ones who love them.

Anyway, to answer your question: you can make it work by totally subjugating your needs and hopes for a relationship based on trust and respect. You can become like Alan Clarke's wife and regard the OW as 'below stairs' and sneer at them and their cheapness (they are just for sex after all), because you have the status of a wife.

You can take a lover and hope that the attention and care you get from him makes up for the hurt your husband will continue to cause you.

You can develop an interest in gardening or become completely obsessed with our child/children and therefore deflect the fact that your husband is screwing all comers whenever he feels like it.

Any of those sound appetising?

turquoisetumble · 20/07/2011 22:45

If that sounded too harsh, I'm sorry. It took me years to see the light with my cheating ex. There was so much begging and crying and telling me how much he loved me and that he would never hurt me again.

Monogamy isn't for everyone and I have the greatest respect for those who make open relationships work. As far as I know those are always based on honestly, respect and care for the partner. Your husband lacks those qualities.

I had 7 miserable years with my husband (after I found out about the cheating, but until I finally understood that he would not change and that every word that come out of his mouth was a lie). These were terrible years where I lost so much self-respect, my sanity and struggled to get through the day. I felt I was living a lie. My wonderful children were my main source of comfort, but even still - I sometimes daydream how it would have been to have had them and a loving supportive husband too. To not have been checking phones and seeing counsellors - just enjoying the love of a good man and bringing up my kids.

I would not wish that on any other woman (or man).

AnyFucker · 20/07/2011 22:49

TT, I think your experience is very relevant and your post not harsh at all, just truthful

I am sorry you had to find this out the hard way

ButWhyIsTheGinGone · 20/07/2011 22:50

you can make it work by totally subjugating your needs and hopes for a relationship based on trust and respect. You can become like Alan Clarke's wife and regard the OW as 'below stairs' and sneer at them and their cheapness (they are just for sex after all), because you have the status of a wife.
What a perfect example of the way women deal with cheating men. Ok, your DH may not fit this profile. but it's yet another way in which women justify disgusting behaviour.

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