Support thread for healing from childhood EA.

[PhishFoodAddiction]

I just wanted to start a supportive thread for those of us trying to come to terms with the emotional abuse of our childhoods.

Please feel free to post as much or as little as you need to, there is no pressure to reveal things or to respond to every post.

It's just good to hear from other people in similar situations.

A brief bit about my situation- my mum and step-dad were EA towards me for most of my childhood. Step-dad also used excessive physical punishment (until I got big enough to threaten to fight back). My dad wasn't abusive, but a part-time dad, and a drinker, who started a new family (stopped drinking)and made me feel pushed out. I really had nowhere to turn. I've been depressed since I was 14, am on ADs now and waiting for my second course of counselling- hoping to make some headway in moving on. I am still in contact with all my family and they don't know how badly the past is still affecting me.

I still find it very difficult to admit that I am suffering, as what went on in my family wouldn't seem that bad to an outsider (or maybe it would, but it was normal for me). I'm only just finding the strength to say, it was that bad, and it did harm me, as my parents just weren't adequate (I have 2 parents and 2 step-parents, out of those 3 are from dysfunctional families themselves).

Also, my depression worsened dramatically after having my DD1. I struggled so much with her in the first couple of months-as I had no idea what to do with her. I couldn't seem to comfort her, and then I began to wonder if this reflected the lack of comfort I got as a child. It can be so hard to parent when you don't have a good role model!

Well, that's enough from me, so much for keeping it brief

IMATP

However, I was scared writing it down and now do not want to go to bed for fear of having one of those dreams!

I'm just sitting here pondering why I visualise my mother in the beautiful and idealised way I do in those dreams. I can't decide whether her beauty represents some sort of pure, untouchable evil, so beautiful as to blind everyone else to what really lurks beneath; or whether I am trying to appeal to the angelic/innocent/childlike her that she must once have been, someone like the small child (me) she was looking back at.

I've been NC with my parents for coming up to 2 years, and the dreams have decreased in frequency in that time. Some recent, vicious contact from my narc/golden child sister has brought me - mentally, anyway - back to that house. In the last few days, I have felt that same suffocating, "let me out of here" feeling I have in my dreams but during my awake and fully conscious time. I'm partly reading this and other threads dealing with narcs/abusive parents in order to get some strength to deal with her gaslighting and scapegoating. She wants to humble me and make me admit I am wrong and that I am evil for going NC with my parents and her. She forgets my brother cut me off, she blames me. I am so tempted to retaliate. I am so tempted to try, yet again, to make her to see the truth (to which she has 3 siblings to attest - she thinks we are all liars). I have spent hours in the last few days typing, but not sending, email after email. I'm metaphorically shouting at my sister in them, much like i shout at my mother in those dreams, but I know she will not listen, that anything I say will be twisted around on me, and give her an excuse to put her own perceived hurt and martyrdom to the family honour at centre stage.

I'm thinking maybe the best, and actually the strongest action, and the one kindest to myself is to do and say nothing and let it slide. Although my silence will infuriate her and set her off at my siblings (other sister already being targeted and on call avoidance). This was my father's unique way of abusing us, much more passive aggressive and subtle than my mother's. He is a control freak, but when he could not physically stop us doing something (such evil things as playing for the school netball team or playing in an after school concert), he'd tell us we could do as we pleased. But we knew full well that while we did "do as we pleased", in our absence, he would be crucifying our mother or siblings for our actions; and mother in turn would crucify us (and the siblings would be angry with us, when sticking together in adversity was the only "normal" we knew). She is going after my sister now because I have not responded. I feel awful, someone else is going to get a roasting from her that should be mine.

IMATP I've seen your posts quite a bit in the last few weeks, I like your style and the logical way you set everything down with bullets etc. May I ask, is this a technique you got from counselling or have you devised your own organised way of drawing together the myriad of issues? I'm asking because I try to write down what I'm feeling, what I experienced, where I want to go with this process etc, but it all gets so confused and feels scrappy and piecemeal. Trying to get all my thoughts/feelings/memories all in order really does feel (and is as exhausting as) herding cats. Illustrated by rambling thoughts above!

that should have read:

and the siblings would be angry with us, which was terrifying because when sticking together in adversity was the only "normal" we knew

hey sell: nah, the bullet points are something I do for ease of reading. I tend to get quite wordy, and find that it helps to have anything which is a list be formatted that way. Easier on the eye and easier for comprehension. I've been doing that since forever.

but it does help sort the ideas out in my own head, yes.

Itsme I might adopt your approach, even though the inner critic tells me not to. I have a legal background and any time I feel something is wrong and want to explore/analyse that feeling, I feel beaten down by the family script that has branded me cold,critical, analytical, unfeeling (for the "plight" of my parents, my sister, my brother) and trying to use my legal background to tie them in knots. So allowing myself to analyse my feelings in a logical, ordered manner almost seems like feeding into their notion of me as the cold, calculating lawyer.

I do hold things in, a lot, I try to keep things inside, because that's the only way I could deal with the day to day fear growing up. If I ever tried to express a feeling, I was beaten down by the parents. I was like a snail hiding inside its shell. My older siblings laugh at me still, that i was oblivious to everything, with my head stuck in a book, for the majority of our childhood. I wasn't oblivious at all, I just thought keeping quiet and keeping it all in was doing what they wanted, because me begging them to stop or expressing any fear etc certainly was not. When it comes out it is such an explosive mess, it scares me. I am thinking of devising a form that I can fill out when the feelings start coming up, allowing me to get my feelings out in an ordered way. Does that sound crazy?

May I ask you why you didn't go to Cambridge? I had a similar experience to you with my Dad. It was Oxford for me. One of the things I did as a child to prove myself worthy was to try to out perform my sister in the academic stakes. But in the process, my Dad got very defensive and jealous in a similar way to your mother (but he lapped up the attention from the outside world and praise he received for what a wonderful father he must be). I did go, although it was a mistake, because I went there to prove something to the parents, not because it was the best thing for me.

sell the form to fill out when you feel your feelings overwhelming you does not sound crazy at all. In fact, it's a recommended CBT technique. (so: yay you for being as smart as the mental health professionals!)

I remember a CBT book recommending filling in a table to deal with feelings of anxiety or self-hatred, for example. One column for the feeling (eg. "fear"), one for the automatic thought that led to it (eg. "nobody at the party will like me"), one column labeling the cognitive distortion that is taking place ("mind-reading, overgeneralising, all-or-nothing thinking"), and one column for a healthier thought to replace it with (eg. "most people like me, and if someone doesn't, that's their choice and does not make me bad").

I haven't put that in practice myself cause I'm lazy . Or rather, I think I go through that process in my head rather than writing it down.

Do whatever you feel would work for you -- whether that's writing bullet point lists, or avoiding bullet points like the plague. Whatever feels like the healthiest course, the one where you are being most sincerely yourself.

Hello to all, I find myself understanding lots of things that people have posted.

Allegrageller mentioned the cloud of denial over her family...

I have thought for a long time that the most damaging thing for me (and my brothers) was my family?s denial of my father?s emotional abuse. As far as I recall we only talked about his abuse with respect to my mum. I remember giving her advice when I was a teenager about how to deal with my dad, I can?t remember the advice but I remember feeling that was my role. She never mentioned or castigated my dad?s behaviour towards us and we never mentioned it between us.

The only way for me to deal with this denial was to divorce myself from my feelings as there was no other way out. There was no reasoning with my dad, he was paranoid, cold, hostile or critical or crazy drunk, and there was nobody else to talk to about it, both my parents were isolated from their extended family.

So, as I grew into a teenager I started to feel more and more divorced from reality. Two of my 3 brothers were already beginning to show signs of mental illness ? one had become mute (he eventually died of alcoholic liver disease), the other was becoming paranoid, (he eventually went on to develop a schizoid personality disorder and committed suicide).

This denial lead me to completely lose trust in anything I thought or felt and I became fearful of losing my mind. At the time I didn?t know why I felt so bad, I just felt like a freak from a freakish family but I can now see that it was the family denial that made us feel (and become in my brothers cases) insane. I spent most of my 20s feeling the same, like any moment I would lose my mind and be annihilated. I can still remember and feel that terrible fear now when I think about it.

We still don't talk about my dad's abuse. If my mum mentions my dad (who died 7 years ago) in any way I just sort of say mmm and nothing else and the conversation then dies out..

Puppy thanks for the links- I loved the fairy tale. I've definitely been stuck in the 'she's okay, I'm not okay' for a long time. I hope I can move on to feeling that we are both okay in our own ways. This is one of the things I find hard- my feelings of anger, sadness etc come from a childlike place in me. At the same time, I can rationalise things with my adult mind, so there is a big disjunction between thoughts and feelings.

I haven't read the linked thread yet, will do though. I don't think I could do a confrontation. I once (drunkenly) brought up to my Mum the fact that my step-dad used to hit/ kick/ punch me and she said 'what did you want me to do? Leave him?' so I don't think talking would get us anywhere.

sell I'm also a holder-in of feelings, and I also always had my head in a book as a child (and even now). My way of escaping what was really going on, having a break from the feelings etc.

I think having a form (or a notebook you can carry with columns drawn in) would be a great idea. I tried it once (for about half a day ) and it is helpful to see where these thoughts are coming from. It lets you untangle them a bit.

HW I'm so sorry to hear about your brothers.

I can understand the idea of losing trust in your own thoughts and feelings. I often think my mum would give a totally different account of my childhood than I would.

I'm starting to feel again that maybe I'm overreacting to my childhood. Please can you give me your thoughts on the following list and tell me if it does amount to abuse?

• A step-dad who was physically punishing me by hitting/ kicking. He was very volatile and I never knew what would set him off. It was a bit of an atmosphere of fear for me really. No major beatings but one off punches on the arm, kick on the leg. He would get angry with my mum, but don't think he hit her-he never did in view of me.

• A mum who stayed in this situation and couldn't stop him from being physical. A mum who told me off for innocently telling my dad where a bruise on my thigh came from (step-dad), and then told to me to lie to my dad about further bruises. She begged me not to tell my dad.

• A mum who offered no real support, was critical, very dismissive (if I was occupied elsewhere and quiet she was happy), laughed at things I did when I'd tried hard, and gave very little physical affection. I don't think she's ever said she loves me. If she has I could count it on the fingers of one hand.

• A mum who slagged off my dad at every opportunity, and if I did something she didn't like, told me I was just like my dad.

• A dad I only saw at weekends, who tried to keep me a baby, who took me to the pub with him every Saturday while he got drunk and I hid in a book. Who couldn't look after me properly, didn't keep me clean when I stayed.

• A grandmother who if I did something good took the credit ("that'll be my genes") and anything less than perfect was criticised. Again, a cold fish, no love or hugs.

Actually written out like that I can see it's not normal. Recently my mum and brothers came round, and I found an old photo of one brother (now 13) before he had his braces on. I showed it to bro (I found it quite cute) and when my mum looked she burst out into laughter, hysterical, tears rolling laughter, at how he looked as his teeth were peeping out. I was mortified, and my poor bro looked so sad, I just wanted to give him a cuddle- but of course he thinks cuddles are weird as he's so unused to them.

Sorry for length!

Well Phish if you are overreacting then so am I ...my childhood was strikingly similar to yours and imo I was abused so therefore imo were you.

FWIW I don't think a label of abuse is necessarily about the 'actions' that happened...it's how those actions made you feel that is the important aspect.

Gah..."imo were you..." should be...

imo so were you.

Thanks Mizzy. I think I've got my Mum's voice in my head telling me that I'm blowing it out of proportion.

I'm sorry that you went through similar things to. Do you now have low self-esteem or lack confidence? I find I can put on a good 'mask' of confidence, but inside I just feel so worthless, and have for such a long time. If the people who brought you up don't love you then how can you feel good enough for anything?

too sorry not to, should preview before I hit post

I forgot to say thanks for the fairytale. If you like them, I'm currently listening to this wonderful CD:

Warming the Stone Child

Phish , that you were abused is without doubt, I think. I had many similar experiences. But it's easier to believe, and be horrified by, others' stories than your own, I find.

Hi again Phish

I should preview too...my typo's are astounding sometimes!

I have the low self esteem and confidence issues too...as well as the 'mask'... but only when I interact with my parents.

If I stay clear of them I seem to be happy, confident and quite resilient ...the minute I get sucked back into it all, all my 'abilities' seem to fly out the window.

I think I revert to 'child' mode when having parental interaction...I have an inkling it's my default setting that allows me to cope with it all.

If I behave like a child and do as I am told, then I will be Ok...if I break out into adult mode and become confident and assertive..all hell will break lose.

As for the feeling worthless I think I learnt to view myself through other peoples eyes - other people as in the general human population - anyone and everyone except my parents.

I am a true 'scapegoat' and during my teen rebellious time I managed to create a lifelong mental list of all the terrible things I wasn't eg a murder and a list of all the positive traits I have eg kindness - ever since then my positive list has always been longer than my negative one.

That's why I just know my parental interactions are all squew whiff...the adult me is actually Ok and basically a good person...even if the parents can't cope with her....she is still Ok by most peoples and my reckoning.

Hmm...I'm pondering again...

..an example of my parental interactions changeable thinking...

I've managed to grow 8ft tall Sunflowers.....except they are facing the wrong way and look into next doors garden.

Now me in separate parental mode congratulates herself on growing said Sunflowers and laughs at her 'luck' that they face next door. Well, they are Sunflowers and they're facing the morning sun just as they should be.

Me in interactive parental mode..ignores the achievement of growing huge Sunflowers and kicks herself because they all face next door and for flips sake she can't even grow some bliddy simple kiddy style Sunflowers properly.

sell yes,I do find I'm more moved by other people's accounts of their childhood.

If I imagine a child growing up feeling unloved and lonely it brings me to tears, yet when I think about it happening to me it's like I freeze up and can't connect to it.

Mizzy I know just what you mean about reverting to a childhood state around your parents (well for me, just my mum really). I find it so hard to disagree with my mum, she will never concede that I may have a point. So I put up and shut up, and let her say these nasty things to me. She always has to be right as she is superior to me in every way (this is actually how I felt for a long time, like my mum was perfect and I was a poor copy of her).

Recently, mum and I were talking to a friend about my sister who is pregnant. Mum thought my sister should have had an abortion (the tablet form) and couldn't see why she wouldn't. She also 'advised' me to abort DD2 which I wasn't even considering.

Mum said 'I couldn't have the proper abortion but the tablet one I could. It's only like having a period.'
Me: 'But it's not like a period, it's a miscarriage. It's a potential life.'
Mum: 'Huh, every egg is a potential life, do you have to have counselling every time you have a period?' Which I thought was so low.

She also thinks I am bonkers for having such emotional attachment to my children, and couldn't understand why I cried when I thought I was having a mc (after all, it might be for the best).

I'm now trying to 'fight back' against some of the things she says. I'm allowed to have my own opinion dammit! I'm becoming a bit stronger in defending myself now.

I am still consumed by this opinion of myself as worthless- it doesn't seem to matter how many people tell me otherwise. I think it's something I need to change internally but the thoughts are so deeply ingrained. I wonder why I feel such a failure when academically I've always been quite a good achiever?

I'm finding this thread such a good way of expressing these feelings, thanks for all the kind and insightful replies.

Aw Mizzy I shouldn't laugh but that made me grin mind you at least your sunflowers got really tall, I think mine died before it ever went outside!

And just think, I bet the neighbours are really enjoying seeing the happy sunflowers peeping over the fence!

It's that negative thinking I'm always trying to get on top of- I find it hard to think about things I have done well, I'm always focussing on the negatives.

Oh laugh away Phish...my DH and kids did!

I've got to go for now...me telly programme is on...I'm off to the world of ghosties and spookiness via 'Medium' ...

Take care all. xx

Thank you for this thread, don't think i can write anything now but a lot sounds very familiar. I've found having my own DC's has really made me angry about my childhood (seemingly ok from the outside) I really struggle to remember any happy memories.
I can't face writing much, but I am proud that I vowed not to treat my DC'S the same, and think i'm not doing too bad
Feeling quite sad now, but so glad this thread popped up
Oh! and my dreams always involve the sea and drowning

Hello sweetpea. I am angry these days too because my DD has reached the age I was when my mother stopped merely neglecting me and started actively emotionally abusing me.
I used to try to excuse or at least understand it on the grounds that my grandmother died around that time and maybe she was depressed. Now I can't.
Although my own life is a mess I would never dream of taking it out on my DD. Not that she would stand for it, she has enough self-esteem to protest and to tell someone about it if anyone treated her that way.
But by the time I was her age I'd already been broken. My mother had taught me I had to deal with my troubles myself and not bother her.

Hi sweetpea welcome. I found having my children meant that a lot of anger about the past came up for me.

I think it's the parenting of my children that is one of my biggest struggles- as I try not to be like my mum, but also don't want to veer too far the other way IYSWIM? My children know 100% that they are loved, but I struggle with discipline as it's a fine balance.

Drowning dreams sound horrible My recurring dreams are quite strange- one involves gigantic stairs/ escalators that I am either trying to climb but it's too difficult, or I'm trying to get down them and it's terrifying. Also another one I have often is about toilets (no idea why!) where I go into a public loo and in all the cubicles, the toilets are all blocked and overflowing and stinking. Not a clue what that means!

Weevils it sounds like you are doing a great job of raising your DD to have good self-esteem. It's so sad that you felt broken by her age. Does your DD come to you with her problems? One thing I hope to have with my DDs is openness and allow them to tell me whatever they need to.

Carl Jung thought dreams were extremely important. That CD I referenced yesterday is by a (rather wonderful) Jungian psychologist. She talks about dreams and how we should pay attention to them. I started looking this up yesterday and found the following website below. Phish , one of my recurring dreams is being on the toilet in front of other people, colleagues, friends, family, sometimes on the toilet in the middle of my office and similar, iyswim. If you go into the "house" section of the attached website, you'll find a section about the toilet. It's rather enlightening!

Jung's Theory of Dreams

Arrgg, is anyone else being driven mad by the login timeout on MN? Just lost my second post this morning.

Suffice to say, hello sweetpea and Phish , I wholeheartedly agree with your comment re the struggle of parenting, and feel the same as you. Thanks for posting that this morning, I woke up feeling irrationally mad about the "Blaming Parents" thread and some of the stuff being said on there, your post calmed me down.

Also, Puppy, Phish , I've never had CBT, so am glad the form idea is well established and not completely mad!

Hi all, physical sexual and emotional abuse by my mum and stepdad,what makes me angry is that i ended up in 2 long term abusive relationships and my children suffered at seeing their mum hurt,my ds has behavioual problems so im still paying the price of my parents abuse,i still have little self esteem but have broken the dv pattern after years of counselling but i know my son suffers as a result of my partner choices and thats a result of my parents abuse so i still have to live with it,cut contact with parents when i went in care at 15.

Wow sell, thanks so much for the link-my exact dream is on there! Here's what it said incase anyone's interested.

"The notion that they dream of bathroom stalls, which are often found in public, further indicate that they are concerned about how others might feel and how others will perceive and judge them. They are feeling ashamed and fear that the situation might get messy should they make their feelings known. They don't want to cause trouble and as a result keep things inside.

Their emotions have been pent up for too long and hence the dreams recur until they are released or acknowledged."

This is very true for me. I thought the dream must have some meaning but didn't realise it would be so accurate.

Sell I'm glad my comment helped you a bit. I've had a brief look at that thread, but didn't like the 'get over it' attitudes so didn't post. Parenting is hard when you don't have anything positive to base it on. I worry I either shout too much and be rigid or be too permissive, so I'm constantly trying to find the middle ground.

Hi there sixkids I'm sorry you've had things so tough. Well done on getting out and staying out of abusive relationships, I hope things will improve now for you and your son. Is your DS having any counselling?