The Brave Babes Battle Bus - We're All Going On A Sober Holiday!

[Mouseface]

Hello, I'm Mouse

Welcome to the Brave Babe's Bus. This is a bus full of drinkers old and new, sober and not, and those who are somewhere in between.

We are all at different levels of sober so you can bet that one of us has walked in your shoes.

If you want advice and support then you're in the right place.

Come take a seat or just lurk, we're happy to have you along for the ride.

And here is a link to the last thread so you can catch up on the journey so far HERE

Afternoon Babes

Welcome to Schtum, glad you came to say hi.

MsGee - It's soooooooooooooo not worth it is it? Just don't do it FFS! Yet we do, we do do it again and again, or at least you and I do.

Thing is though sweets, you've just lost a baby. You've not had a bad day at work, you've not just had a bit of whinge about your DH, you've not just ripped your tights on a desk, or missed the bus in the pouring rain, you have lost your baby.

You know that I've, as have others, been in your shoes. This won't just go away. You are trying to move forward, as a woman, as a wife, a mother and as YOU.

You can't just switch the pain off, oh but only if you could, otherwise life would be kinder I'm sure.

Please just do what you have to to get through the next few days, weeks or months. Talk. Talk to us, DH, your friends, family. We won't get bored of hearing about it. If it helps, talk.

Let.

It.

Out.

I understand as you know that drinking numbs the edges, blurs the picture, softens the blow. Take your time. If you want to drink, then allow yourself to do so. You'll find that you drink less because of it. I know I have. Much less.

Just take your time to re-adjust. Your body and your emotions are all over the place still and you know that. Cut yourself some slack for a while. I wish I could reach through the screen and hug you.

MissBehaved

"I hope someone is feeling the same"

Yes, verily yes!

DC2 departs for university in October, and DC1 moves into his own flat, to start his new job after uni.

I too, have been married for 22 years, 23 in September, and October will be the first time that Dh and I have been on our own for any great length of time for just over 21 of them!

Perhaps we can shore each other up, in October?

Or now .

MissPerrier methinks someone has been having herself a nice little daydream . . .

mouse your post really struck a chord. As soon as I read it the tears started to spill out. Oh my god, I lost my baby - I have just been ignoring it.

But I didn't just lose it did I? I had an abortion which is just horrible. I did some research this morning and you know what they called babies like mine years ago monsters ... and yet how am I any better?

Hi. thanks thurso - that would be much appreciated x. Bear with me, I seem to experiencing teething problems while trying to post - they keep disappearing when I try to go back to reference a name ...also I can't figure out how to use the :) things.

Obviously, too much tap water!

Sorry, ignore last post. Hope it didn't offend anyone x

Afternoon

((UnMN-y hug)) for Msgee and anyone else who feels the need for one.

Welcome to the noobs, and good luck!

A note on sleeping - when I first starting quitting - yeah, I had a few false starts - but my first proper week of no alcohol. I had absolutely awful nightmares, proper nasty dreams that felt very real. Apparently it's quite common and they stopped after about six days (thank god!) I haven't had a bad dream since and I sleep like a baby. Not in that I sleep for three hours then wake up screaming, I might add . I'm also asleep quite early in the evening and in bed before 10.30 (is this early? difficult to tell when you live with two insomniacs!). When i was drinking I would sometimes be in bed very early but only because I was either hammered or trying to hide the fact that I'd been drinking. Not a very effective cover up tool I might say! Or I would be up half the night putting it away

Anyway, totally unrelated to the above, I am having a crap time at work. The management are actively bullying my closest colleague and she's very close to throwing in the towel which is exactly what they want her to do .

Also, they have brought in a new rule that we are not to have mobiles on show and they must be switched to silent. I DO NOT APPRECIATE BEING TREATED LIKE A CHILD. I have two kids on summer holidays whose father works five miles away and travels by pushbike, so I am main emergency contact if they set the house on fire. But how am I supposed to know if they're in mortal peril if I can't hear my phone? Bloody idiots. I work in a closed office and no-one (to my knowledge) has ever spent time chatting willy nilly to their mates whilst they're working so I have no idea why they've brought this rule in. I have devised a way of having my phone in my drawer and I can hear it buzz and can see any message/caller id by taking a quick look, and from now on I will wear trousers with a pocket so I can nip to the loo if necessary

I will also be looking for a new job. Shame really, but I refuse to be treated like a moron so they can stick it up their jacksy.

I'm enjoying being sober at the moment but I'm still fending off the addiction voice quite regularly. It's a right pain in the arse.

MsGee Mouse's post brought a tear to my eye too. Still does if I re-read it. She is so right to suggest you keep talking about it. We have agreed on this thread to not judge anyone so that we can all talk honestly, without fear. For some of us it is the only place where we can voice our private thoughts and feelings, safe in the knowledge that we won't be criticised or made to feel bad or embarrased. I think this is why this thread has been so successful right from the start. x

msgee but years ago they would not have known until too late that something hadn't gone as it should, and very often the baby would have died and the mother too. I know it is awful and horrible, but I am thankful that we live in an age where things can be detected early.

My best friend had a baby boy who should have been born 22 years ago. He eventually died in utero at 23 weeks, and my friend nearly died in the process. She and her husband knew from an early stage that their baby was not developing properly. For them, at that time, the right decision was to do nothing. They felt they had the resources to cope, but it nearly went very, very wrong.

I know that nothing can take away the pain and sadness that you feel, but please do not make yourself or your baby into monsters. Your baby was a child that was not able to live, and you are a loving, grieving mother.

Take care of your self xx

Thanks to all for the warm welcome & especially Mouse without who this Babe would be without a battle bus!! ;)
Hi GollyHolightly I had an awful first nights sleep after stopping; nightmares like you wouldn't believe & hot sweats! (Gorgeous?!!) I think I bought some of it on myself though as I read through the possible side effects before bedtime & terrified myself! (Doh!) It has got better & I too am tucked up by 10:30pm.
I'm feeling great though! Mornings aren't a messed up blur anymore.
Yes I'd love a glass of white wine (partly to see if it would be just one) but I'm not going to have one because I like the way my life is without.
DH has also radically reduced his intake too which is so helpful.

Thank you everyone. I just feel so let down by my body - 2 mcs and then a baby with anencephaly - it just feels like I am useless. Then I look at DD and wonder how I got that so right and all the subsequent pregnancies so wrong. I also read that alcohol intake is a factor so feeling awful and worrying about that -although the irony is that I did my 4 months of not drinking before I got pregnant and although I was drinking again, it wasn't really heavy any more.

Its all in a bit of tumble at the moment. I know that I did the kindest thing for the baby, myself and my family. I know that effectively I didn't have a choice - its just such a horrible way for a much wanted pregnancy to end ... although given it was going to end, perhaps it was the best of a lot of horrible options.

People keep telling me I can try again and I feel like screaming at them - can't they see that I am such a failure at pregnancy?

On a positive note, I have not drunk today. I have eaten crisps, sweets and all manner of crap food but no booze. Now for an early night.

thank you lovely babes, for being there and not judging. Again, apologies if my post sounded crass, I was just in a bit of a state. xx

MsGee

Well, then I too terminated my boys. I had them 'removed' because their silly little hearts failed to beat anymore.

Please, sweetheart, don't do that. You did what you HAD to do, regardless of every shred of your body screaming NO to the doctors who said 'it's for the best', 'the baby won't have any kind of life if it survives'. I know sweetheart, I know.

You are not a failure at pregnancy, you have your beautiful DD who ROCKS!! She's a mini you! FFS, what about PooGate?

Lean on us. We're here for you 24/7. Please let yourself grieve. Please. You know where I am.

Let go of the hurt. xx

I've been out for a surprise dinner with my boys, Nemo and DH, and now I'm off to bed.

Sleep well Brave Babes. Be strong, and if you can't be strong, be safe.

Night to all xxxxxxxxxx

BOING!!!!

lovely bright morning here, went to meeting last night and feel all bouyed up, ready to fight the fight!

MSGEE - your post was in no way 'crass'! - i want to say the 'right thing' to you and hope that whatever i say dosent upset you but honestly, you arnt a failure! fwiw i think you did absolulty the right thing, for you, your family and the baby, i think you are strong enough to cope with this because actually, you have no choice but too! - give yourself sometime to grieve, its ok to be angry, sad, bewildered and all those other emotions you are feeling right now, focus on your lost baby for a while, dont let anyone push how you feel under the carpet - eventually you will find a way to live, positively and happily, never forgetting his little soul, but enjoying the here and now and your wonderful little 'poogate' girl! as i said, i hope to god i havent upset you!, my inarticulate post is meant in good heart!

MsGee " I know that effectively I didn't have a choice - its just such a horrible way for a much wanted pregnancy to end ... although given it was going to end, perhaps it was the best of a lot of horrible options". Exactly. This is an issue I've given a lot of thought to, as I have a genetic condition that meant that, once I knew the baby was a boy, there was a 50% chance that I would have to terminate the pregnancy for similar reasons. I didn't get the test results back until 24 weeks so there was a lot of time to sit around thinking about possible scenarios. I did a lot of googling and fwiw I would have made the same decision as you (not sure that this helps terribly).

I will not be having more children as a result of the genetic thing (and the stress of waiting for test results) - I certainly do not consider myself a failure for this reason and there's no way that you should in your circs. xx

On a more positive note - I managed to execute last night's plan! There were a few moments of doubt when everyone else was 20 minutes late and the waiter gave me the drinks menu... but the lime and soda was lovely. The one thing I took from the experience is that when you're sober, other people become very loud and very tedious when they've been drinking. And it takes ages to get them to leave if you're sharing a taxi. .

I will not be drinking again today because it is a Wednesday. And I don't need to.

[Did I mention that I've been promising myself to cut down drinking every morning for over a year and these are the first two days that I've actually managed not to drink? this bus rocks...]

haa!! 'very loud and tedious'! - oh i at the thought of what an obnoxious, loud, rude, baying old bag i must have been at times! ohhhh it makes me shudder when i see women of my age pissed and stupid, thinking that they look sophisticated and making cow-eyes at the waiter - what were we thinking!

Hello all

Been lurking for a while and wanted to say how inspired I am ... still doing a lot of my own thinking about everything you've all been talking about .. but have had a couple of personal non-drinking triumphs this week thanks to you all. I will probably come back in a while, but it seemed a bit rude not even to say hello when you have all been providing such great advice and support to me. You are all great.

MOrning all.

Hello Ernie, I'm just sorting Nemo but will be back if you want to chat .

Was thinking about msgee and others and I remembered something I'd read about grief (and other big life events) which I've summarised as follows:

When something unexpected happens we are suddenly reminded that we are not in control of everything that happens in our world, and we can feel helpless and hopeless. It is true that we cannot control all things, but there are always things that we can control, and focussing on these can help when we feel we are facing a downward spiral of grief.

1. You can control how you adjust to the death of a loved one. You need the ears of others to talk about your loss. Will you choose to interact with others, perhaps in a support group or at least with loving friends, or isolate yourself?

1. You can control your commitment to self-care. You may not ever feel like your old self again - that's what major loss can do to us. So look for a new you with new routines and new ways of looking at the world and your place in it. Treat yourself with great respect and care. Eat healthy. Walk. Take a daily stress break. Give yourself a respite from sadness.

1. You can control how you structure and organise your time. Have a plan for each day, especially the special days you know will be difficult, like birthdays and anniversaries. Lee Iacocca, the American Industrialist said, "The discipline of writing something down is the first step toward making it happen." Think ahead and seek the advise of wise friends in helping you plan.

1. You can control the depth and meaning of your spiritual life. Incorporate whatever beliefs you have into your daily plan - it doesn't have to be faith in God or prayers to angels, it may be as simple as taking a moment every day to show gratitude, or spending 10 minutes in quiet meditation on the beauty of life that is around you.

1. You can control how you use your money and schedule pleasant events. Give yourself (and others around you) a treat without feeling guilty. Make a list of the things you like to do and turn to them as a way to balance your day or to focus attention away from dwelling only on sad events. Keep your list handy and add to it as you remember or discover new activities that allow you to reinvest in life. Use it as one of your lifelines.

1. You can control how you interact with your friends. Some people will be part of your support team - seek their company. Reduce contact with those who are negative and toxic until you are stronger. Positive supportive friendships can be as important as any medication.

Don't know if any of that helps.

Ah isindie you've just reminded me how much I miss you xx

Afternoon all

Not sure whether this is a good idea but will share anyway and please ignore if it's not helpful.

Having decided not to drink yesterday, in the evening I changed my mind and had 2 glasses of wine.

I was not going to have any until Saturdays big party but changed my mind for 2 reasons - 1) I hadn't had any for a week and really fancied some wine and 2) I wanted to make sure I could stop once I started.

So, the things I observed were that after all the umming and ahhing over whether or not to have it, I had built up in my mind that it was a really big deal, some major 'treat', or 'test', or some sort of grand occasion.

In fact, it was nothing of the sort. I was quite happy to just have 2 glasses and put the rest of the bottle back in the fridge. I enjoyed them. It did stop the 'craving' because I thought to myself 'is this what all the fuss is about?'

This is the 'normal' sort of drinking behaviour that I am trying to achieve so seems like it's working for me.

But, but, but . . . a 'normal' drinker wouldn't be thinking this much about it, would they. Is this the begining of the slippery slope? Am I just kidding myself? Presumably only time will tell. I am planning on taking it easy on Saturday. Trying to get strategies straight in my head but also trying not to project. I don't know how much of my behaviour and thinking is 'alcoholic' and how much is 'normal' for want of a better word.

I don't want people to think I'm advocating an occasional drink because that won't work for everyone and may not work for me, but I really hope it does.

Anyone 'been there, done that' got advice or something to share to help sort my head out?

Hi there fairenuff I'd say I've been there, done that, got the several t-shirts, and the accompanying dvd . But that's ME. None of us can tell you what is right for you.

For ME - I found that after a period of not drinking, I could drink a couple of glasses and put the wine away. I found that I seemed able to control my drinking, and drink like a normal person. And then I relaxed. And I found that the 2 glasses was always 3, then 3 and a G&T, then one night the whole bottle, and not just drinking on special occasions, and having more days when I drank than when I didn't, and then drinking when I was happy or when i was sad, drinking when it was hot or when it was cold, drinking every day (or almost every day). So I thought 'shit, maybe I have problem'. I stopped drinking for a week, and I found that after a period of not drinking I could drink a couple of glasses and put the wine bottle away. I found that I seemed able to control my drinking, and drink like a normal person, And then I relaxed. And I found that...... (and so on ad infinitum).....

Except that now it's not ad infinitum because I've found that if I don't give in to the first couple of glasses then they cycle doesn't start again.

Just to re-state. That's about me, not about you.

Oh and of course it's OK to post things like that here. That's the very thing that many people wonder about. It helps me to think about questions like that because it reminds me about MY own patterns, and helps to stop me from kidding myself.

I know other people are different. I have a friend who used to drink almost as much as I did. She cut back, and stayed cut back, and now drinks very moderately and it doesn't seem to bother her whether she has a drink or not.