Feel like I am drowning while DH is oblivious

[sickfeelinginthepitofstomach]

Recently I told DH I wanted to get fit and restart exercising and asked please support me, pay attention, give me a kick up the bum etc. I know the responsibility is mine but I was asking for a little support. Instead, as usual, what has happened is that he carried on with it almost obsessively while I gave up due to the usual reasons - difficult to find time, no energy due to depression, DC both off school sick blah blah.

He now gets up and goes to the gym before work, does his triathlon stuff. He never ever once said, hey I'm going to the gym. He just did it. If I left the house at 6am without telling anyone, there would be no one to look after the DC, he would probably not notice I was out and go to work oblivious.

A few times before I found out that he was not going straight to work I have bumped into him on my way back from the school run and he looked very guilty - I did wonder if he was having an affair (almost with a sense of relief actually) but he was coming back from the gym and lied about it. He later said he lied because he thought I would get pissed off with him having that time to himself and ask him to take the DC to school or something. I'd even noticed his muscles changing and his hands had callouses from gripping the weights, so I know it was the gym rather than an affair. He's become very fit over the last year, while I am a blimp with zero self esteem.

He has tailored suits and handmade shirts because of his important job, while I have old T shirts and jeans. I don't want to buy new clothes in a size 18 because I want to lose the weight, so I buy crap in the sales that I don't wear and always end up back in the jeans and T shirts.

I'm fucking miserable. I gave up my job gave to be a mum, I wanted to. But now I'm a wreck. I'm worried about the unspoken lessons I am giving my DC. I feel I'm subsumed in (usually not done yet) washing, cleaning, sorting mudane boring shite. Remembering all his family birthdays, sending cards, doing the bills, doing the shopping, making sure we have dishwasher tablets, taking DC to school, reading, checking homework etc. When all that is done I feel like there is nothing of me left.

DH works every night. He sits at the PC or laptop working away, phone conferencing. He does have a very all consuming job and I accept that, it is part of the deal for the moment.

But I am so very pissed off that he never gave any time to me or DC, that time that he has now magically been able to produce out of nowhere for his fitness regimes. He never took paternity leave. He has never got up in the night with the DC. He does not do any housework - but he will wash his own clothes, iron his own shirts (his clothes are special and they need special care etc and I'm not consistent enough to be entrusted with it )

I feel like he is living a separate life within our family. I just don't know what to do about it. I think I'm a bit depressed - I have a history of it due to terrible family background. But he isn't noticing, he is just picking his way though the debris and ignoring it.

I feel like I'm in a dissociative state and I'm losing my fucking mind.

I guess there is other stuff (financial control elements etc) but when I start to think about it I get the sick feeling in my stomach. Not sure I can take all that just now

gosh the two of you are living separate lives aren't you? This is a long one but stick with me.
Whether he meant it to happen to or not, whether you contributed to the situation or not, he's happily taking advantage of a situation where he retains power (money, status, goods, freedom) and you cede all of yours.
I think this happens quite often in partnerships with young children but this seems to be quite extreme - handmade clothes vs old jeans/leaves house without telling you vs feeling unable to do anything for yourself. The idea of leaving the house without telling you, and lying about where he's been - surely any sane guy would realise that's not really acceptable or normal behaviour???
I also agree that you exhibiting signs of depression and mustn't beat yourself up because of how helpless you feel. It may not be possible for you to 'pull yourself together' by yourself. In this situation you are not in an equal position to negotiate with your partner as really he holds all the cards, you all the responsibilities, and you are not as emotionally robust as him at the moment to boot.
Possible avenues of action for you, in no particular order might be:

• have a clear conversation with him, using notes if necessary, about how your partner's behaviour makes you feel, why it's so undermining and unfair, and that things need to change now. Getting to a point where he recognises that he IS in a more dominant position and is not in an equally responsible one just because he has a high-powered job to hold down.
• challenging him each time he does/says something undermining as encyclogirl does to ensure he becomes aware how pervasive his attitude is
• reorganising your money affairs so that you both have equal access to time and resources you need to make you happy human beings and the rest is pooled and decision made on spending jointly with the 'whole family welfare' in mind rather than just his.
• getting some support yourself eg, gp, counsellor, helpline to explore whether there are ways of helping you out of a depressed corner to enable you to step up to this negotiation
• getting some support together to explore the inequalities in your current family set up eg, Relate

Several previous posters have suggested that as money shouldn't be an issue you could have a cleaner, join a gym etc. But you say at the end of your post :

"there is other stuff (financial control elements etc)"

This sounds a bit worrying - can you say more about what is going on with that?

He sounds like a selfish cock to me. Can't believe other posters are giving you a hard time over this, OP.

Yes. Thank you, this is definitely starting to make sense.

I think it is a lot to do with my difficult background and my lifelong battle with terribly low self esteem.

x-post with springydaff sorry - think we are saying similar things

you are not going mad or worrying needlessly OP, this is an abnormal situation and he is not showing many indications of caring for you at the moment...

Reading this makes me realise how passive-aggressive my DH is. I just thought he was annoying!

He puts obstacles in the way if he doesn't want to do something, instead of just saying he doesn't want to do it. He says he will do things and then deliberately doesn't, and then if I say anything he rolls his eyes and implies I am a nag. Argh! Men are awful!

shit shit shit springydaffs

what you've said has literally knocked me sideways

yes

christ

omaoma

yes

that's it exactly.

He has all the power and I have all the responsibility.

How long before your youngest goes to school?
At this point you will have a lot of time available to exercise/ work part time or on a voluntary basis / enjoy hobbies.

HellonHeels

OK, basically because I've been shit with money in the past (my own money) I have a permanent black mark over my name in this house, and I can't be trusted. So I'm not an equal partner in financial terms. The house is his, not mine etc.

Our last house was jointly owned ( I was working) but our new house is his alone. I can't remember why, something to do with the amount of his salary and mine making the amount we could borrow less...

erm. writing that down it sounds bad...

that reason is about how the mortgage can be assessed for total borrowing allowed. The house should be in joint names surely? Are you married?

Yes. But we weren't when the house was bought. AFAIK, it's not in my name still.

OP you definitely sound depressed. I think you need to focus on that first and then sort out your relationship. There is no way you're going to be able to tackle the very obvious problems with your DH (and they are glaringly obvious from your OP) until you're feeling stronger and better in yourself. You're being very hard on yourself but the fact is that when you're depressed doing the simplest jobs can seem like an absolute ordeal. I got so depressed that having a shower used to have me sobbing hopelessly. Yes, exercise will help, but you need to get to the point where you're physically able to exercise before that can happen IYSWIM.

Time to go to the GP I think. Be honest about how you're feeling. GP might suggest ADs or counselling or both. I would recommend counselling as that will help you get your relationship with DH in perspective.

For what it's worth, what you say in your post shows your DH up as an immensely selfish man. It should be very obvious to him that you're struggling and he should be doing everything he can to help you but instead he's suiting himself and sorting out his own needs while trampling on yours.

OP, you need a tactic. I have a great one.

Dh came home from traininglast night and announced someone he met at the pitch was coming round tonight to quote for some builiding work later, that we'd vaguely discussed. "I know you have a run planned, but you should really be here"

My response was:

"Work, dinner, clearup, run, kidstime, our time. It's in the the schedule."

He started to make noise about how we both wanted this work done and it was v. important.

My response was:

"Like I said Work, dinner, clearup, run, kidstime, our time. It's in the the schedule."

I literally repeated it 4 times and eventually he called the guy to re-sched the time.

He was seriously pissed with me, and stomped off to cut the grass (he does loads in fairness, but so do I FFS! Anyway when I came back in from my run he was all sweetness and light and seemed to be totally over it. He didn't apologise mind.

Jaysus it's like Pavlovs Dog sometimes, but I will change this behaviour. We have a child with Down's and Autism so I'm more than up to the task of breaking down his behaviour and changing it once and for all.

I'm totally in your corner.

WRT the house - why isn't it in your name, even if he's paying for it? DH and I are buying a house and even though I'm not contributing financially (as I'm a SAHM) my name will be on the mortgage and the deeds.

just to let you know - i too couldn't get on the mortgage when we moved to our new flat because i was self employed. the mortgage is in DP's name. but both of us are on the deeds of the house so if anything happens it's mine as much as his...

even though i onlywork part-time I get as much money as DP each month because he pays for the childcare and all CB/tax credits get paid to me. (some months i'm actually better off...)

just to give you a different world view to your DP's

OP, I will come back; just marking my place but our situations sound so similar.

This made me feel a bit

" I've been shit with money in the past (my own money) I have a permanent black mark over my name in this house, and I can't be trusted. "

Yes, . I also had many 'black marks' against my name - that I was useless at this or that - the reason he had to take over, as I "couldn't be trusted".

Now I am free I realise I didn't have any of those unspeakable faults at all. All the better to control me with.

I hope I'm not being too incediary there OP, just didn't like the sound of that sentence. It may, or may not, be true but it shouldn't leave you totally controlled financially. Do you have any control over anything btw? Or does he hold all the cards?

Woah woah woah!

Oh no no no no. I don't think so.

Right - you're married, yes? Then it makes not a jot of difference how the house legalities are organised, or that your name is not on things - if you divorced, the house would be an asset of the marriage and more than that - if you are the children's primary carer, THEIR housing needs would come first and HE would find himself as the person who either had to move out or get the smaller portion once the house is sold. Moreover, if you choose to divorce him for financial abuse as part of a bigger picture of general unreasonable behaviour, there's your grounds for divorce and a lot of your financial disclosure right there in one handy set of documents
Bottom line, it's not his house. And he knows it, if he has ANY understanding of the law. So you can start mulling over that one...

Right, so you can't be trusted with money, but he's happy to leave you in charge of budgeting in order to feed and clothe his children? Oh what a laugh. No, OP, your 'black marks' are a convenient smokescreen which allows a selfish, entitled piglet of a man to arrange his world so that he gets the power, the glory and everything else whilst reducing you to the level of a domestic servant.

How astute of you to pick up on what the undercurrents surrounding this gym issue actually involve! - however, you hint that you've been faintly aware of this financial abuse for a while now, so maybe it's not too much of a shock...Anyway, practicalities.

Do you love him and see a good future with him? Have a real think, and don't base it on fear of managing alone. Start mulling this over - there's no time limit here. And mull WITH ATTITUDE. Put him on trial, if you will. Start from the position that you basically have plenty of grounds to divorce this man, get a decent settlement, and possibly put yourself (after much upheaval, I know) into a position where:

• You gain a fair control over YOUR JOINT ASSETS. Yes, they ARE joint. If you weren't there, he wouldn't be able to do the job he does, have the money he has, and have the family he has. He's ripping you off, and for him to consider money he earns as 'his' is just as ludicrous as you considering that, as you do the childcare, that the children 'belong' to you and not him. Think about it.

• You would probably have greater access to money, and would be more financially secure than you are now within this so-called 'well-off' family. You aren't well off right now - he is, because of aforementioned ripping off. And your kids are in the same boat. Tax credits, maintenance and a house in your name - hmm, sounds rather more welcoming than living on the coat-tails with him deciding how much cash you 'deserve'. Of your own fucking family money FGS!!

• Post-divorce, access and residency would be set fairly. So although you'd be a single parent, you would actually probably have more time to yourself (every other weekend when the kids are at his, with him forced to actually take responsibility for them! - oh dear, no more endless palming them off, and probably school runs he has to do too, poor old Mr. Hand Woven Shirts!) So bizarrely, you'd probably be more successful at e.g. gym training, as you'd know when you were free and when you could go.

• You stop being the downtrodden skivvy for a pig of a man and start living for yourself and your children and build back that self -esteem to where it should be, until you become a person who GOES AND DOES rather than one who hopes and fears. Does that sound completely OTT, or has it struck a chord? Only you can answer that.

Don't be afraid to start having a very good think about this OP. If it were me, I think that first of all, I'd have a free half hour with a lawyer and ask about what would be likely to happen in the event of a split, given the house thing. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Hey, I know all of the above sounds totally gung-ho - divorce, when you're only talking about getting time to go to the gym? But to me, the first problem seems to be that you feel you are powerless - you are not. Start getting a hang of the real picture here, then you'll be able to start moving towards a life YOU want to live - not the one he wants to confine you to.

Yeah! Go ShoutyHamster!

I suggest you get counselling, just for yourself, not couples counselling. Its expensive and your dh will need to pay for it and babysit. You should be able to schedule it for weekends or evenings depending on the counsellor you select.

If your dh won't agree to this then it doesn't bode well for the future of the relationship imo.

Good luck

I have had lots of counselling. It was paid for from my salary and then once I stopped working, the joint account. I've been in and out of therapy for years (since I was 19 actually, so 20 years on and off) because of a very bad beginning in life (alcoholic family, abuse etc). It's really helped me get to grips with my family. I'm teetotal, non smoker for the last 10 years etc.

I stopped going because it was making me feel worse. I'd get incredibly anxious and have panic attacks. I just got fed up of talking and never DOING anything.

If I wanted to go again, try another therapist, DH would be fine about it.

He has his bad points, but then we're weirdly codependant complimentary I guess. I suppose the point has come where it has got out of kilter, and is becoming harmful to me (and I worry about the effects on DC) and I want to change it.

My feeling is that if I brought it up, my name would be put on the deeds, there wouldn't be an issue. I made him do the budget with me a while back, and things got better, because he could clearly see that money was needed for extras (clothes, presents, days out etc) and that it had to come from somewhere, either that or we wouldn't do those things. Before that I'd end up going overdrawn on my own account or stick it on my credit card and that's where the "bad with money" thing comes into it.

I mean I think that lots of the things are by omission rather than actively bad. Not sure if that makes sense. I'm not making excuses for him, I'm bloody angry. But I guess I have a lot of baggage that I'm bringing to the table, and I'm...what's the word? Oh yeah. I'm complicated.

One thing is for sure, he certainly isn't doing anything positive to ameliorate the situation.

Every so often in our marriage (20 years married) we have these Huge discussions. They crop up every few years and are nearly always life changing for the better. Something triggers them, and we have it out then and there. They could take a whole day, escalating into rows, sulking, making up, rowing again, then finally rational discussion. DH finds them very scary, he always seems to think I'm gonna finish with "and with that said, I will be leaving you and taking the children." He spends the first half of the conversation trying to shut me down as fast as he can, for that reason. "Ok, Ok, OKAY! I hear you. Just....leave it will you" Oh and the famous "Oh come on, I can't always be in the wrong surely!"

July 23rd 2009 we had a big discussion over the state of our finances. That conversation was painful and difficult, but it changed everything for the better. Completely debt free now.

We had another one 3 weeks ago about how obstructive dh is about giving me time to run. That took a whole day and we were both crying at the end of it, so much stuff came out and had to be dealt with. BUT it worked. He made a commitment to supporting me and by and large he has. I still have to call him out everytime he tries to obstruct me and that's draining, but I have the foundation of that all important conversation to work from. "Remember what you said that day? You promised to back me. Remember?"

He hates these discussions but always agrees that in hindsight they were so valuable.

I don't think you have that bad of a man OP, I think he's drifted into behaviours and it's gone unchecked. You absolutely need to address it now though.

Sorry Encyclogirl but you don't have that bad a man, by the sound of it - your H is just lazy, thoughtless and selfish and does seem to be trying to improve.
This is not the case with the OP. Sickfeeling: not only is this man a nasty abusive prick but he always has been and he targeted you from the beginning. Men like this can smell someone who is vulnerable, someone who has been abused in the past, and they latch on hard and fast because what they want is a slave and a punchbag, someone they can crush in order to prop up their own egos.
DOn't go anywhere near couple-counselling with this shitbag. Talk to WA and a lawyer. ANd get the Lundy Bancroft book if you can.

encyclogirl, that makes a lot of sense.

One of the things I always thought was good about DH was a similar thing, that he would change, or try to change, a behaviour if I told him it was a problem (in a way that he could cope with - men are from mars, anyone?)

I think and hope that we can get it back on track.

I think partly through being depressed it is hard for me to see clearly. Some of the comments on this thread have really opened my eyes.

For eg - the power thing. It's completely true, whether it is intentional or not on his part.

Also, reading some of the posts really made me flip out - what if I was with a wrong 'un, repeating the patterns of the past and in an abusive relationship?

I don't really think that I am. I think DH is a good guy, but he is "absent" a lot of the time. But the flip side I initially "chose" him because of this. Maybe it suited me then, but it doesn't suit me now.

Also, I think he has become selfish or is indulging in selfish behaviour in terms of time/family time/sharing domestic and parental responsibililty. He does ensure that his stuff and needs gets attended to, for eg he will always get a run in, he will always do the 2 hours work he needs to on a Saturday morning.

I'm not assertive. I need to redress the balance of power. I need to decide that my things have value and are necessary too.

One of the problems though is that when I don't have the drive to do things (get to the gym, get out for a run, meet up with friends whatever) and it is because I am too despondent and depressed, he will just think "Well, you could step up if you really wanted to". He is of the "stop feeling sorry for yourself and pull yourself up by the bootstraps" school of thinking when it comes to depression. Not terribly helpful.

I'm going to draw up a list of changes that have to be made I think, and talk to him about it.