He has given his mother all our savings

[westernshores]

Hi everyone. I wasn't sure if I should add to my previous thread here or make a new one. It's a new issue (or is it?) so here goes.

We've had one conselling session, which wasn't especially productive but I was glad we did it. We had a nice night out together - he arranged it, got a babysitter etc - where we did a lot of chatting and had a good time as a couple. This weekend just gone we did lovely things as a family - again, his idea (daytrip etc). He didn't touch alcohol, get snarky, do/say anything snide. I was really hopeful that I'd shocked him into assessing his behaviour.

This morning he told me he'd given his mother his inheritance from his grandmother (£60,000), instead of paying it into the mortgage as he'd told me. His mother said that grandmother would've left it to her anyway had she known about MIL's financial situation and H thought that was reasonable. MIL used the money to repay business debts and a huge tax bil of FILs.

This was 'some months ago' (must be a year plus). He did not consult me at any point and although he says he was intending to tell me and looking for the right time, I just can't believe that. I suspect something has happened which means it would be obvious that the money was not used as he said - perhaps the mortgage deal has run out? H is the only name on the mortgage and is in finance so I - stupidly - haven't done anything other than take his word for it over the years.

He said "essentially it was my money and I felt this was the best use for it".

We'll never get it back as MIL is remortgaged to the hilt and retiring and BIL has disabilities which will need supporting once MIL and FIL pass away. Not that them repaying us was ever mentioned.

MIL and FIL have clearly colluded in this as nothing has ever been said to me.

Is this why he was so keen to live abroad and sell the house/rent it out?

I was almost speechless as he was telling me - and then he fucked off to work and said we'd talk later. I can't stop thinking about what a difference that money was supposed to make to the DCs.

I am literally torn - is this why he's been so aggressive and horrible? The stress of covering up this situation? Does he deserve compassion here? Or is it proof that he doesn't think me worth considering at all?

I feel like... actually I don't feel like anything, I just feel sick.

I believe he did give it to his mother, it fits entirely with their dynamic and explains a lot about the IL's altered financial situation. I could call her and check. H is really not the hoarding type. Though I wouldn't've said he was the longstanding liar type either.

Oh dear. tortoiseonahalfshell has a point there.

amateurish I disagree. Once in a partnership income belongs to the partnership - wherever that income comes from.

However this issue is bigger than the money. This is about your DH keeping an enormous secret from you. Of course the stess of keeping that secret could account for his previous bad behaviour but given that stress was entirely of his own making it is at best an explanation, not an excuse.

That being said I have a certain amount of sympathy for the difficulty of his situation, in effect he has seen his mother disinherited in his favour and I can understand if he felt that that put him in an awkward position. But to go ahead and give that money away, not just without discussion but having lied about doing so...well you have every right to be furious.

I firmly believe that this inheritance was your money as well as DH's. I'm not overly familiar with the legalities of it, but to say it was his money to do with as he liked is absolute bullshit if you are in a marriage.

On what you've told us, I agree with tortoise. From the start of reading this, I was wondering whether there was more to it.

If I needed to help my mother financially, I would certainly consult DP if we were talking about the sums involved here. Anything about £100 I would say needs mentioning in my house.

about above

his inheritance but you are his spouse so had he died the day after receiving it the amount would have been yours (unless willed away). Had you divorced the day after, then half would have been yours. So although his money, he gave 'your' half away WITHOUT consulting you. If you have a mortgage what would that amount have done towards reducing it? Is there likely to be an inhertiance from the ILs eg house/business, no debt. I'd be furious that he did this without discussing it first. In the scheme of things it's not a lot of money unless it's come to you and it can make a difference to your lives eg securing your home.

He doesn't see you as having any worth.
He puts his parents before you and his children.
He takes money from you and his children to fund his parents' bad choices.
He drinks to excess, behaves badly and denies it.
He is only nice to you when he wants to mitigate deceit.
What exactly are you getting out of this relationship? Do you really think this is a good environment for you or the children?
I read your first thread and I have no idea if it is still an option, but whatever you do, do not take your children to live with him overseas. If the country you settle in has signed the international convention on child abduction, your DH would have to agree to you removing them from their current country of residence back to the UK. If he choses to, he could force you to live overseas until he decides to give his consent or you convince the courts that it is in the best interests of the children to take them back to the UK and away from their father. Three women I knew in The Netherlands had to go through 1 - 2 years worth of legal wrangling before they were allowed to move back to their base countries with their children for no better reason than their XPs (none of whom were Dutch and none of whom expected to live overseas permanently) wanted to exert their control over these women. It was horrifying to watch.

the drunk stuff from the other thread is worse but yes this is awful. does he have any redeeming features?

how awful for you to be going through this and on your behalf

i agree with pagwatch & tidydancer and few others in a marriage especially with children finances are joint and anything over £100 for eg must be a joint decision, regardless of where it came from.

personally i would consider seperation over this potentially divorce even more so considering past behaviour.

what do you want to do? i do agree with others definitely don't go abroad with him, but i would also consider taking on a much more involved role in the finances if you are going to stay. they affect you and your DC as much as him.

if you are considering divorce over this (or anything else) i would get some legal advice first, and collect as much info regarding the finances as you can.

i do think the money is as big a concern as the deception though, i would see it as his kids money not mine or his. (but i'm a bit like that with everything) i only want to pay my house off get more money etc for my
kid(s)

There is no chance we are going abroad. H can go by himself.

I am struggling to see a way back from this - once again there was no contrition, I'd wager he doesn't think he's done anything wrong and it's perfectly reasonable not to consult me or tell me about this as "you'd just be angry".

He probably sees it as his mother's money first and foremost - he feels a lot of guilt (misplaced IMO), about all she has 'done for him', and he worries about his brother.

Redeeming features - nothing that balances this and the behaviour I discussed in my previous post. Nothing that excuses lying and treating me like the dirt on his shoe. The DCs (and to a lesser extent me), should be his priority. £60k is an amount we won't see again. If he wanted to give it to his mother he should have told me that was his intention.

AT BEST, his shit behaviour recently is a result of the stress of the lying and potential financial consequences. I can't see any way that's a best, really.

I'm going to email him and ask him to show me proof of the money going to his mother - the savings accounts etc. And I want to know why he's telling me about this situation NOW. There has to be a reason, something must be happening.

It's hard to think about what's next, because it could well be that I have no clue about our financial situation. For example, I don't know how much mortgage is owing on this house. There's a local family law solicitors who are apparently very good, I'm going to make an appointment for a consultation.

I think he is still lying to you, tbh

You really should call his bluff. He reckons you won't verify the story with your IL's (and some posters would go along with that too)

Check out his story before you take this any further

This man is a consummate liar...don't start believing anything that comes out of his mouth with checking first. Stop trying to guess and find out the facts.

Amaturish
perhaps that would be covered by my saying something like " i am odd then"...
oh look. I did.

Thing is, AnyFucker, his mother would lie for him. It makes sense circumstantially that he did give his parents the money (the vanishing tax bill which was big enough to bankrupt them, MIL is now able to retire), but if he didn't and did something else with it instead, they'd lie to me about it.

That's why I think I'd rather see proof of the money going to them (from both sides perhaps), than rely on what they say. They've demonstrated they're happy to lie to me too.

do you work? or contribute financially to the family finances? i'm just wondering as if the mortgage is solely in his name doesn't that also mean the title deeds will be too? (sorry if thats way off i don't know much about these things) i also think you might find it hard to get info on the house if this is the case due to DPA.

if you do contribute financially, i would get paper copies of statements etc to show this also and keep them in safe place.

maybe CAB could help,

You're absolutely right, you do need proof. Just please prepare yourself as much as possible that asking for it might lead to more revelations.

Your DH is clearly not a trustworthy man.

I really, really hope you will now dissolve your marriage

Clearly, you have been lied to and can no longer have any trust in him whatsoever

Don't let the financial thing take over (although it is big enough). From what you say, it is all finished, anyway.

Oh, hell, western.

I do wonder why, if he gave it to his Mum, it went into two separate accounts? Half for her and half for himself?

Either way, I agree with you that something new is happening now. His behaviour has changed, his attitude has changed, he's softened you up for a revelation about money but with no obvious precipitating event (and if 'you'd only be cross' why tell you at all?) and it REALLY worries me that you have no knowledge of your own financial situation. That has to be rectified forthwith, it's ludicrously dangerous for you to be in this position.

House is in his name alone, I am a SAHM.

I think it is finished. I can remember a time when I would be jumping on this to explain his recent shit behaviour and feeling sorry for him for carrying this burden and feeling like his not confiding in me was my own fault.

His behaviour has killed that, and if his behaviour was influenced by the stress of keeping this secret from me then that's a sad irony but he brought it on himself.

God this is depressing though. I'd really enjoyed this past week, it was like a weight had been lifted.

I agree with TidyDancer.

I have a feeling there are a load more skeletons to unearth before you will have any reasonable idea of what really has been going on...that is if you ever get to the bottom of it all.

Regardless of what and how much you do actually find out...if this was my relationship I'd know in my heart of hearts that it would be over.

Too many deceptions for my trust to ever return. The money for me really is neither here nor there...it's the lies - letting me believe my security was assured, when it wasn't and the let downs through the drinking that would be my 'enough' acts.

I agree. This is the tip of the iceberg. There's a ton of shit to uncover yet.

tortoise The two seperate accounts thing was under advice - had to be under £50k so protected by... can't remember what it's called now. I was actually the one who said we might as well split it down the middle - put it into two savings accounts with two different banks while we waited to decide what to do with it (there was talk of converting the loft). Then H said he'd decided to pay it into the mortgage and I said I thought that was a good idea.

FIL's tax bill was actually in excess of £30k, which boggles me as if that's unpaid tax (income tax?), presumably that means at some point FIL had and didn't pay tax on that amount. I remember discussing it with H - who didn't mention wanting to bail him out, he's never been like that with FIL, just with his mother - and saying that bankruptcy would probably be the best outcome as FIL cares for BIL most of the time. We discussed whether it would affect MIL's business (they are not married), etc.

Then much later I said something like "what's happened with that giant tax bill?", and H said "oh that was all sorted out". I didn't think to ask more; MIL has a 'good' accountant who's helped her out with dodgy stuff in the past (one of the reasons she's been in trouble lately - I know at least one of her mortgages was based on declared earnings which were higher than they really were).

I am ashamed about how ignorant I am about all this stuff actually. But it never occurred to me to ask for precise details. I saw that the mortgage payments were lower (part of what makes me worry that something bad has happened now), didn't think to question further about FIL's situation or anything.

Why is the house in his name? Are you on the title deeds though?

Does anyone know the implications of this in divorce proceedings?

I hope he can't just throw you out and change the locks

I would not live with a man who wasn't prepared to put my name equally on the deeds of the house. DP and I are purchasing a place together, I have fuckall money to put towards it and he actually asked if I wanted it to be in my sole name so that me and the DDs were protected.

Mortgage payments could be lower from going to interest only payments.

With a repayment mortgage you repay some capital and pay monthly interest....if times get hard it is possible to go interest only so you can keep the mortgage going.

I'm not saying this is what your DH has done...just that it may be what he has done.