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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Have I done the right thing? What do I do next? Am I abusive?

98 replies

westernshores · 03/06/2011 21:45

I would really appreciate some perspectives/advice/anything really. Feeling incredibly lonely just now.

An appointment I'd arranged for today was rescheduled to 5.45pm - I called H (on his mobile), and asked if he could be home in time. He said he could.

He messaged me at 5.10 saying he was on his way. By 5.35 (when I had to leave), he wasn't back yet but I assumed he was on the tube as his phone went to voicemail. Our neighbour agreed to watch the DCs until he got back.

He called me a couple of minutes after I left, walking up the road (so 5 mins away from home). Fine. Except he was slurring. I asked if he was drunk and he said he wasn't drunk. I asked if he'd been drinking and he said he'd had a couple of drinks. I asked how many and he said three. I asked where he'd been and he said at work then when I scoffed said he'd been at some conference/meeting thing with vendors. He'd been there all day, I hadn't known it involved drinks.

This was really distressing to me because six months ago, when we were in another country seeing if we wanted to move there for H's work, he went AWOL after work. We had plans to meet somewhere and he didn't show up. He turned up at the hotel hours later, drunk off his face, having made no effort to contact me. He said I was being ridiculous and hysterical (I was in bits, his behaviour while drunk has been an ongoing issue and I'd thought he might've been hurt somehow). We talked a lot during the trip and I left the country telling him that I was considering ending the marriage over this behaviour- it affects his reputation at work as well - and that we needed to have some serious discussions on his return. He came back a week later and hasn't gotten pathetically drunk since. But we have talked about his drinking often - he's always defensive/offensive. These (unacceptable IMO), episodes are infrequent but always similar.

Anyway, didn't want to dripfeed but don't want this to be a huge essay either. I was concerned enough about how he sounded on the phone (having arrived at my appointment), to message him insisting he see a doctor on Monday as three drinks shouldn't make him slur and forgetful and perhaps there was an issue there (there's blood sugar issues in the family). He didn't reply.

I called him from my appointment as it was winding up, at 6.45pm (so an hour later), he sounded much more 'normal'. I suggested he bring the DCs to where I was - high street/park - and we get some dinner and enjoy the sunshine. He said that was a great idea and they'd set off directly and see me soon.

I called 15 mins later and his phone went straight to voicemail. Called again and again and again. Thought he might've run out of battery so went across the road to the park. Looked for the DCs and H. Walked to the playground. Walked to the restaurant we'd been discussing eating at. Was calling H constantly. Went back to the place I'd had my appointment in case he'd come by, nothing. Was 7.40pm at this point. Finally called the landline and H answered.

He had no memory of our conversation at all. I walked home and he told me (on the phone), that he'd had five drinks not three. I asked him where he'd thought I was all this time and he said he hadn't really thought about it. He said he was "checking his mobile right now" and there were no messages or missed calls from me.

I got back and put the DCs to bed - it was after 8. H said he'd given them sandwiches for dinner. I was really upset - told H that I'd told him last time that it had to be the last time and he'd said it would be and his choices were that he stopped drinking altogether while we had counselling or we ended the marriage.

He said "are you going to do some housework, then?" I repeated what I'd said and he said "I'll give up drinking if you do some housework".

No real point relating the rest of the conversation as he was drunk, slurring and obnoxious. Said I was being ridiculous, that five drinks wasn't that much more than three, I asked why, if three and five drinks were the same, he'd lied. He just sneered. I said "you're so drunk you've forgotton a conversation, how can that be acceptable?" and he said the conversation about meeting up etc had never happened. I showed him the call record on my mobile and he said "well I don't remember it so I don't think I happened".

At this point I just wanted him gone so I gave him the keys to his mother's place down the road (she's away), and sent him off. He said he'd lost the car keys and his wallet.

Went to check on the DCs and they said they were hungry. Checked the kitchen and no evidence of sandwiches at all (we had a new loaf today, it was still unopened). Called H at his mother's and he admitted he "probably hadn't" fed them.

I have no idea what to do. I was supposed to be out tonight but have obviously cancelled.

We're supposed to be moving abroad at the end of the year but - I have little enough support structure here as it is.

I don't know what to do. Make him come to counselling? He really doesn't understand that I am upset about the lying (and him being so off his face he forgot me and didn't feed the DCs, but it's more that he won't admit that's unacceptable).

How he is while drunk has been commented on by his colleagues and friends. It was funny/normal/unremarkable years and years ago - drinking until puking, staying out til 4am, he's pissed himself in the past - he and I have been together 15 years - but he's not grown out of it.

I think he's pathetic and I am hating him right now, but maybe I'm being melodramatic.

OP posts:
westernshores · 06/06/2011 19:06

GP was great and has ordered 'the works'.

I resisted the urge to do the talking.

Can't do the bloods until the 17th but I feel a bit better now.

OP posts:
Oakmaiden · 06/06/2011 19:11

Isn't your youngest 2 years old? Is he acting out against the restriction of being a family man???

westernshores · 06/06/2011 19:36

Youngest is 3.5.

He loves being a family man, is always doing stuff with the kids. Is a homebody, gets to do gigs and nights out when he wants to.

He says:

"I did everything when the kids were tiny and you said you'd do everything"

(I got pregnant again when DC1 was 3 months old and had horrendous PND after multiple m/cs and a high-risk pregnancy, plus DC1 had severe health issues when very small. Once DC2 was born usually one of us would be up with one kid and the other with the other but surely that's normal? What else would we do?).

(He doesn't believe I had PND apparently. At the time he told me that if I was going to take anti-depressants not to tell him about it as he'd "been through that before" with a previous g/f)

He says:

"I come home from my job and do your job"

He says:

"you don't do ANY housework and you leave crap all over the place and only tidy when someone's coming round"

(I do some housework but fair enough really - but he's never mentioned it in the whole 15 years we've been together and is just as bad, honestly. 'His' areas (his stuff in bedroom, the box room), are horrendous)

I asked him why he's suddenly finding this stuff objectionable (kids were tiny 2+ years ago), and he says "I always did but now they are older you're still not doing anything".

I think perhaps he has strong negative feelings about my being a SAHM - or the 'wrong sort' of SAHM.

But when I was considering retraining we decided together I'd leave that until DC2 was in school. I have shown him the type of jobs I could get in this area at the moment and he says it's not worth it. He says the same to volunteering. I have 2 childfree hours a day and he thinks I should be 'doing more' with them.

He was at home a lot after I had an operation recently and apparently that was 'proof' that I am lazy and rubbish because when he was in charge he coped fine AND did some work.

But any discussion we have he makes about the above. His first response to the events in my OP was "do some housework then".

OP posts:
invertedsnobbery · 06/06/2011 21:24

western - you sound like a really intelligent person. What do you want in life, both for now and a few years down the line? Do you want to be a SAHM?

And if you have differing views of cleanliness, why don't you get a cleaner? Or is the real issue that he feels he has thus far contributed so much more than you in family life in view of the earlier setbacks with your health and your DC health.

To have only a year between kids when they are pre school is really tough and there is little time for anything else. There is compromise in all of this of course, especially where it comes to housework.

Seems like there are a lot of issues other than drinking that may need to be ironed out here - he possibly harbours resentment about your earlier PND. I think relationship counselling is a must and I'm glad you got a man. Let him know how important this is for you and how unhappy you feel about the current state of your relationship.

Sending you lots of good karma for you, DH and your lovely DC.

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 06/06/2011 21:48

Well, it is hard coping with a partner who has MH issues (including PND). it's not the ill person's fault but it can be very exhausting and upsetting for the other person, which can lead to resentment. Still, he needs to either get over it or fuck off. He doesn;t get to punish you for having PND by acting like a cock himself.

westernshores · 07/06/2011 00:24

Thing is, I'm so much better now. The house is, I'm more present, I do stuff with the kids - playdates, I have friends, I get out more.

Perhaps he felt he had to swallow his resentment while I was so miserable, and now it's all coming out?

He said (while drunk), that we couldn't have a cleaner because why should he pay someone to do my job. Sigh.

I told my good RL friend about what happened on Friday this evening (I was supposed to be seeing her and had to cancel but didn't explain why). It was good to talk, I don't want to be ashamed of our problems.

I can understand if he's resentful/bitter about what's happened in the past, and what's happening now, but he needs to TELL ME how he feels rather than being horrible while drunk.

I want to get a job. Even a minimum wage job which ends up costing us money. Another reason not to go abroad if things are like this, because I won't be able to work there - I'd be happy to volunteer though.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 07/06/2011 00:39

Just the way he is when drunk would be the death knell for me. Sorry, but he's an alcoholic. That's fine and dandy, except in his case, it turns him into a fuckwit extraordinnaire.

I'd not go abroad with him. In fact, I'd ask him to move out.

My kids are hard enough work without a so-colled adult like this.

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 07/06/2011 08:17

Westernshores: I didn't mean to suggest that his behaviour is OK in the least. He's being a dick. And WRT housework, he can either do it himself or pay someone to do it. Housework is tedious necessary shitwork that it's better to pay someone to do, really - you're giving someone a needed wage after all.

westernshores · 07/06/2011 10:42

No, his behaviour is shit. I can sort of understand where some of his self-justification comes from but that doesn't make it any less shit.

Ultimately if he doesn't make an effort it doesn't matter why he is being like this, because I have to go on how he's acting and react accordingly.

I see two issues - his contempt/resentment (which comes out when he drinks), and the uncontrolled binges. So many people have said it's not a big deal that he has these binges because it's just a couple of times a year, but personally I think that's bollocks and there's a big difference between rolling home off his face and being benign/apologetic (which always used to happen, and which - sorry - I could live with), and being spiteful and lying.

I do think both these issues are HIS problems, tbh. They are impacting me (and the kids, as of friday), but if he's got simmering resentment over stuff which happened years ago he needs to sort it out and get some perspective. I'd be receptive to discussion and catharsis if he needs to rant it out, but not to this.

The drinking just has to stop. He's been considerate for six months since what happened abroad, which is a fucking slap in the face for me really. Problem is, I've made the ultimatum now. I am worried that he'll do it again, I'll leave him and he'll act like it's a surprise. I'm not sure how to make him see I mean it.

I get the feeling he wants me to be living an apology at the moment - for everything he did previously. It just makes me think he's lost sight of me as a person and that's not good.

OP posts:
bejeezus · 07/06/2011 11:22

I do think both these issues are HIS problems, tbh

this is what you need to remember

The drinking just has to stop

and this might never happen

I can feel your pain and stress, you are twisting and turning and trying to understand what and why he is doing and trying to find the truth between all the lies--it is a waste of your very precious energy; you cant make him stop drinking.

please go to Al-Anon for some support and focus on looking after you and the kids. relationship counselling will not be effective-as this is not a relationship problem, it is a drink problem

what madonnnaisawhore said, equally applies to being the wife of a drunk

WhereYouLeftIt · 07/06/2011 12:49

Just a thought, but is he 'kicking the cat'? Is he being kicked outside the home and so coming home and taking it out on you?

"He has a reputation at work for being really clever, almost a miracle-worker (hence this secondment), but 'not suffering fools gladly' and being a difficult boss. His colleagues have often said to me at work events "oh it's amazing seeing how he is with you/the DCs as he's so abrupt and to the point at work"."

Has his reputation taken a knock of some sort, maybe a new wonderkid on the block? Could he feel pressurised to take the secondment abroad to prove to them that he's still top dog? Or could he be feeling that if he takes it, he'll be surpassed whilst away, but feel that he can't turn it down?

Not saying he's still not a dick for his behaviour, just trying to look for reasons for his getting worse lately.

westernshores · 07/06/2011 16:27

Hmm, thanks for the thought WhereYou. Actually he's being appreciated more at work than ever before - given this attitude towards me comes out after work jollies almost exclusively, perhaps he's acting out because he's coming from a situation where he's being admired (and, when he's pissed, is King Of The World), to one where he's not?

Whatever it is it sucks and it needs to stop.

OP posts:
mimiholls · 07/06/2011 16:31

It's VERY common among alcoholics to try to deflect the blame by making an argument about something else e.g. if you get angry with them about their drinking/behaviour, they turn it round into an argument about your rage, and how you're the one with the problem. That way they never have to face up to the consquences of their own behaviour. The key is to be absolutely calm in everything you say and don't let them turn the issue round on to you. Don't even allow it to turn into an argument, just tell him what you have to say and leave it at that. Also never try to reason with him when he's drunk. There's a lot of stuff on the internet about this in support sites for alcohol issues etc. He needs to see a counsellor, he can get support through his gp, if it's affecting you and more importantly your DCs- not just emotionally but in being unable to care for them- he needs help now. You can't go on with him like this.

Omigawd · 07/06/2011 16:56

Sorry, but if that frequency of drinking is an alcoholic then so are many of the UK male population, and quite a few women.

More at issue is why he has changed from being a sorrowful to a spiteful drunk, and why he now lies/forgets. Re forgetting, see what the tests bring up.

I wonder what caused the change in his attitude while drunk - maybe it links to the timing with all the kid issues/not pulling weight resentment feelings? Another thing that occurs to me is if you have changed your attitude to his rolling home drunk since having the kids and become less tolerant, so his response is to be more defensive or lie?

westernshores · 07/06/2011 17:06

I think the drinking in itself isn't the main issue. I know many disagree and I am fully prepared to come along cap in hand if it turns out to be, but I think the issue is his contempt towards me, how he is when he drinks, and how his attitude towards me (more evident when drunk), has changed.

Ultimately I suspect the process will be the same as he needs to stop drinking or I am leaving him. But it's also larger than that and I think I'd be doing the situation a disservice by concentrating on the drinking - him stopping drinking/being treated for alcoholism wouldn't be a magic bullet, the issues in our relationship would still exist and they need to be addressed if we're going to stay together.

OP posts:
bejeezus · 07/06/2011 18:11

In response to Omigawd @ 16:56 and Westernshores @ 17:06

I am not sure that he is an alcoholic, but I think he at least has a drink problem i.e. the alcohol affects his behaviour in a dangerous and upsetting way which affects his family...and he still drinks...

the change from sorrowful drunk to spiteful drunk and the lying all ring true of alcoholic behaviour--it sounds like an escalation, which is what happens

and what mimiholls says about deflecting the blame on to someone else (in this case you, westernshores) is very classic alcoholic behaviour and could explain his attitude towards you-it is also common to pick a fight or create (or fabricate) a drama as an excuse for drinking. The 'work situation' doesnt wash; many many people have stressful/responsible jobs and dont behave like this.

I hope my gut instinct is wrong and you are correct about an underlying medical condition- but dont you think he would be as equally shocked/ upset/ worried/keen to seek help as you, if he had REALLY only had 3-5 drinks then forgotten to feed his kids and cant remeber an entire conversation he had with you? I would be petrified if that happened to me

perfumedlife · 07/06/2011 19:00

westernshores this is such a sad situation, and whats even sadder is how much soul searching and energy you are (understandably) putting into making sense of his behaviour. Is he? I wonder. Is he lying awake at night fretting that you may leave him, crying because he let his two little chilren go without dinner, that he let his wife walk all over the neighbourhood for a family meal that he forgot all about? I really doubt it. And this is the big issue. He just doesn't see this as a problem. All the therapy in the world won't make a jot of difference if he thinks his lifestyle is acceptable, by his standards.

Some believe that drunks utter the truth when they have the dutch courage of drink, and I often think theres something in that. The way he speaks to you, about housework and pulling your weight, it smacks of total lack of respect for you. And this spills out when he is drunk.

The real loss of respect should be yours, no man worth the title 'father' would let their kids go hungry. Contrite doesn't even come close.

Why such a long wait for bloods? Could the gP not take them lastnight?

expatinscotland · 07/06/2011 19:01

I think the drinking in itself isn't the main issue. I know many disagree and I am fully prepared to come along cap in hand if it turns out to be, but I think the issue is his contempt towards me, how he is when he drinks, and how his attitude towards me (more evident when drunk), has changed.

Oh, I agree with this completely.

I've got a mate who's definitely an alcoholic, so is his wife (their children are long grown and live far away so they don't always see their grandchildren) but neither would in a million years act like your DH does when pissed.

perfumedlife · 07/06/2011 19:01

'loss of respect should be yours, for him ' Blush

perfumedlife · 07/06/2011 19:03

Totally agree expat.

westernshores · 07/06/2011 20:28

Bloods have to be taken by a nurse apparently and the only early-morning appt they could offer was the 17th.

Thankyou for the comments. Lots rings true. I am putting a lot of myself into this, because in the past he never has - lots of "you'd split up the kids' family over this?", and "so where are you going to go". Horrible bollocks.

I think I need to know for my own peace of mind that I gave it the best chance I could.

The 'underlying medical condition' is a bit of a red herring - if he REALLY gave a shit about me he'd've cut down or stopped drinking when this change in behaviour while drunk kicked in. And if the bloods show some magical condition which means he reacts much worse to alcohol than he used to, do I think he'll drink less on these benders? No, because reason is long out of the window. It might make a difference in restaurants and at christmas but that's never been an issue. If he had an 'excuse' not to drink, he wouldn't use it. He wants to drink like this on these occasions.

No matter what the reason, his behaviour while drunk is unacceptable. I need to carry that through to its logical conclusion - but if I focus on the alcohol I think I'm focusing on the wrong thing, or have too narrow a focus. He used to drink like this and be benign, bumbling but apologetic and loving.

I am hoping the logical conclusion of all this isn't the forgone one it seems to be, and maybe I'll be surprised by whatever comes up in counselling. But if I end up leaving to 'prove a point' (what he would say), I need to remember that the point is being repected and treated well, and having the DCs respected.

OP posts:
WhereYouLeftIt · 07/06/2011 20:40

I think you are looking at it the right way, westernshores. The alcohol only serves to amplify the underlying problem. But that problem is still there when the alcohol isn't.

miamama09 · 01/07/2011 16:26

Just wondering if there is any update out of this post?? Would be good to know, so I can draw from it for my own experience currently....

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