I want to leave DH but it's upsetting him so much.

[crapwife]

I don't want to go into all the details or why and wherefores, but after a very long marriage, and adult DCs, I have decided after a HUGE amount of soul searching that I need to leave DH at least temporarily- say for 6 months- to see how I feel.
It's a long story- I have never been sure about "us" and have thought of leaving often but having a young family stopped me.

It's taken me ages to get to this stage and I am now looking at places to rent which I can hardly afford- it's going to come out of a nest egg- but I just feel I have to try it. I may miss him madly and be back in 2 weeks- or I may not. Another option is for him to move out- which would work better re. my work and needs for space etc.

However, his reaction- which is 100% understandable- is making it so hard that I am having doubts if I can follow through.

Every time we talk about it he cries, and says the bottom has fallen out of his world ( but admits he has had plenty of time to change and the signs were there for ages.) He doesn't know how he will cope and feel terrified it may be permanent.

He then accuses me of not being upset. Well yes, I am- have known him for 30 years- but it's taken me a huge amount of thought and guts to get this far in my thinking. I am not sure if I am doing the right thing, but I have to try it. i am not expecting him to wait for me if I leave and I know he may move on and even find someone else.

I have spent decades putting other people's happiness before my own and for once I am trying to work on me and what I want.

Has anyone else gone though this and how did you find the guts to leave someone who adores you and who desperately doesn't want you to go?

Gawdon - if you have not had it already- go and seek counselling. How ironic that I am offering advice when I asked for it!
You seem bitter and angry. What about YOUR marriage vows, eh? Presumably your wife divorced you? I don't know the history but you sound pretty lacking in empathy and emotional intelligence.

No, marriage is not about self sacrfice. But in agreement with other posters I can say that I have sacrficed a lot: my career so DH could pursue his and travel the world; my own income, despite being a professional graduate when we married (I have some but a fraction of his), a social life as a couple because DH is a loner with no friends, doing every scrap of housework despite having 3 part time jobs, cooking every meal for 27 years including 2 different dinners each day due to kids food allergies, never receiving a thoughtful present on "big birthdays" etc, having a man too wiped out with work to offer me any conversation each night, not backing me up with issues relating to our kids.....

Basically he put work first, then the kids, then me.

He says he loves me and I believe him but the life we have is not the life I want. he has had numerous chances to change - we have had many conversations- but despite meaning well, his behaviour has never changed.

I think he has had time enough. I do not want another 30 years like this.

GIW

I would put these questions to him as well as you:-

What are you teaching your children about relationships here?.

Would you want them to have the same sort of relationship as you currently have?. No?.

You are both teaching them that this unhappy relationship model is acceptable to you both. The children as adults will wonder why the hell you did not leave sooner. They will not like either of you very much for remaining with each other, they likely all too well know that things have not been at all happy with you both for some considerable time and perhaps even blame themselves for their parents failing marriage.

You can be brave too, your man's tears are manipulative and designed to pull at the heartstrings. Do not remain paralysed with fear. There is always a way out; do not grow flowers in the hole you are in.

I would also write very similar to the OP as well.

Gawdon- your description of marriage- a man who has maybe stuck by his wife for years despite feeling "like that himself"- is a description of a life sentence- not a marriage.

I assume that is how you felt?

Why should anyone stick with something if they are unhappy? That's a very odd way to live. Sure, you need to try- and keep trying especially if children are involved-but people change. If you believe in a " no divorce society" ( bar absue ) then you don't really have much compassion do you?

OP, I'm no marriage expert - certainly not with regards to a 30 year relationship/marriage, but I just have a few points for you to consider:

1. a huge number of friends and relatives (I am guessing you both are aged between late forties to early sixties given the length of your marriage?) don't have brilliant marriages, not even close to it. Again, no violence/adultery/criminal behaviour but they don't seem particularly - in love/loving - but they are just committed to each other...wife does the cooking, husband does the repairs, etc
2. what would you be leaving him for - do you want another chance of having a more satisfying relationship/marriage? Otherwise, it's a lot of upheaval not just for him but for you also - getting another property, changing all your legal documents including a will, what to do at family get-togethers....if your younger relatives invite you to weddings/christenings, you can't go together, it'll be awkward, etc, and some friends and relatives do start cutting you out of invites - eg in laws might invite your children and him to events but not you, and some friends who know you both equally well might not want to see you both ever again (for fear of taking sides, for all sorts of reasons)
3. the effect on your kids, even if they are grown up - a couple of friends and classmates I know whose parents separated/divorced when they were at college or newly graduated took it really hard (ie got depressed or broke up their own engagements) because suddenly everything they had taken for granted as happiness and stability crumbled. It's worth having a talk with them - some adult offspring have noticed that their parents don't get on at all and are supportive, even welcoming, of the decision to separate/divorce.

Am not saying that I don't think you should do it. Just wanting to ask if you have considered what the alternative is like. If he's just very annoying to live with, how about separate bedrooms (which many couples have) and going on holidays and outings separately? I know one married couple (they look happy enough) who never holiday together because the wife likes adventures and travel - climbing mountains, visiting nature sites, going on safari, whereas the husband likes the plush hotel+fancy restaurant+chilling by the pool sort of holiday. Rather than taking turns to be bored/miserable, they prefer to go separately. But a trial separation or "me time" of 6 months might be a good idea.

I don't think I'm bitter. I am happily divorced and get on well with my ex wife.
Just voicing my opinion, that's all.
I know it flies in the face of public opinion on this forum as basically I'm a bloke and most of the users are sisters, but perhaps it's necessary to provide more balance.

SOTT thanks for your insights.
I have thought of most if not all the points you mentioned.

The in laws stuff is not relevant- we both come from small familes. DH has no contact with anyone except an elderly mother 100s miles away- his brother lives on other side of world and they rarely see each other.
We don't have any family get togethers ever. If we do, it's my close family only, they are 300 miles away and my parents are old. TBH they will not be around for many more years.

yes, I have thought about the effect on my kids but I have put them first for 20+ years. I did have the chance of leaving DH for an ex 15 years back and didn't- put kids first.

I agree that many couples in long marriages are not happy- but that's their problem- doesn't mean I have to follow suit. I see what you mean about separate lives, bedrooms and holidays but TBH if that's how it is (I have a close friend whose marriage is just like that) then I think it's better to split; marriage is about doing things together, for at least some of the time.
Otherwise it becomes a purely financial arrangement based on history- and fear of change.

gawdon you were not providing balance. You were accusing women of ditching men who may have stood by them for years whilst they were unhappy too. You reminded me of my marriage vows. what happened to yours?

P.S. Stop cooking for him :-) I mean, cook for him if you're at home and there's plenty to spare, but don't do it specially for him. And definitely don't come home from what you're doing just to prepare his dinner .(Just read your 15:19 post as I'd left mine unposted for 1 hour while I had to attend to a chore.) Again, I defer to someone who's been doing it for longer than I have, but what you describe sounds like where I was about 2 years ago when I gave up my career to have a child (pregnancy complications meant it was either career or baby but couldn't have both) , moved to an area I hated but he loved, and then our life was a bit like what you describe. (And it also describes a lot of my inlaws' lives....their poor wives.)

I decided some time after that I would not be a doormat or make sacrifices and get nothing back (his response was "I never asked you to be that selfless, other than to live in the house I like") because carpe diem - life was too short to wait for nonexistent gratitude, so I stopped doing a separate meal for him (he eats what we eat), and if I wanted to see my friends we were going, or he could come along and be babysitter, because that's what I do when we visited some of his relatives (who weren't nice to me).

Definitely I would encourage you to start living your own life now - if you are not free to cook or be at home to do the laundry, he has to do it for himself, if you want to go to a party/play/concert/holiday/night out yourself or with your friends, do it and he can sort something out for himself. (Ready meals in the freezer!) The funny thing was, once I stopped being so thoughtful or self-sacrificial, he actually started treating me better. So there's hope for you too.

OP, you say "I have never been sure about "us" and have thought of leaving often but having a young family stopped me"

That sounds very familiar to me - I believe that is how my ex felt over a lot of our 30 years together incl 25 year marriage. The subject of how things weren't right cropped up from early on and she eventually left last year. That view certainly affected our relationship - we probably should have ended it earlier. It is painful thinking that your wife/other half might leave at any time because her hopes are not being fulfilled.
Because of that I think you should separate for the benefit of your whole family. I felt the way your H does but things have moved on and are better for all of us now. Our children (16,18,22)are happier without the tension. If you drag it out now you will just make it harder later.

The only way I believe you might be able to survive is if a) you both want to try to and b) can both look objectively at your expectations about where you are and expect to be (probably with professional support).

Would you be ok financially if you were to split up? Joint assets enough to see you through retirement, potential ill health and all that (can't remember if you said you're still working or not)?

On a another note, my mum said she knew of two clients who split up in their late seventies because they felt they'd stayed together "for the kids" long enough! She said both seemed happier afterwards.....presumably they'd planned it out for some time, but it was a mutual decision in their case.

Money wise things would be so-so. I really don't know. I earn my own money but it's not a huge amount- about £20K- and I am self employed :( I would get enough if we split to buy a small house outright- but it would be a big change from what we currently have- nice 4 bed 2 bathroom place etc.
DH has a final salary pension and it is substantial. I would be entitled to half. I also stand to inherit from my parents.

Re. not cooking etc etc- that has happened for some time. I am quite good at going out and seeing my friends and doing what I want and DH has to manage. he does this badly and lives on ready meals. Ditto his washing. I am no longer ironing his shirts but will wash them as part of the main wash. Ironically tis has made him appreciate me more- but in some ways it's too late and I don't want to be "won over"- I just want him to leave me alone.

I think if you are that unhappy then leaving is fair enough.

But I think that leaving on your terms is not. You said you want to split for six months or so - and that maybe you'd be back, maybe you wouldn't. I think this is grossly unfair tbh. Either you want to leave, or you don't - keeping him dangling for you to maybe come back or not or to make up your mind is not fair on him.
He deserves to be allowed to move on too, and once you leave you have no right to expect or even want him to wait for you.

makes me think about

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This next post is not for OP per se but for the general discussion here.....

The problem I think is that there is a lot of "men are from mars, women from venus" problems that many of us here have posted about marriages like this. I'm not sure you can say men "have stood by their wives" if the husbands don't remember birthdays/anniversaries, don't try to plan fun things to do as a couple - whether it is a picnic, holiday, walk by the beach or even getting friends round for a barbecue....so many men after years of marriage come home and hide behind the paper, don't help with any chores (not even putting out the rubbish), etc....and they call that "being a supportive spouse"!! Women pay attention to things like whether the husband asks about how her day was, and is interested in what she has to say, whether he does something thoughtful like buy her something she told you she liked - or even just remembers flowers for her birthday, asks her whether she'd like to go somewhere special for dinner/weekend/holiday/day trip, whereas most men don't think it's important if the wife doesn't do that for him, as long as they get to watch football/rugby/F1 or go to the pub/football etc etc, and the thing is that the man will do it even if his wife doesn't like it, whereas a wife will not.

Now I must point out NOT every husband is like that - clearly we are not talking about the sweet and thoughtful husbands here. But in marriage difficulties where there is no adultery/violence/addiction/criminal behaviour involved, many men are mystified as to why their wives would say the marriage falls short when the men are little more than hotel guests in their own home who do little more than join in the conversation and pay the bills, while the wives bring up the children, work, clean, cook, check that legal/health/education necessities are sorted out. It may be that they have followed examples from the previous generation where this was ok - because the man's job was to earn money, drive and fix the car, pay for holidays, but now because women can do all that (like OP can and does) and they don't even need men to do household repairs or fix cars because there are tradesmen for that sort of thing, the dynamics of marriage MUST change - it's about sharing, being considerate and mutual support, not about traditional fixed gender roles.

Yes, OP, I thought you'd already thought all those things through. Here's another thing: after we moved house, I was surprised I was the only wife who was still ironing her husband's shirts!! (even among the SAHM wives!!) Oh, ok, there's one friend who does, but she doesn't count - her husband is sweet (not perfect, but thoughtful), remembered every birthday and on a significant anniversary, got her a really special piece of jewellery. Once again, it's not about the money (she could have bought it herself), it's about the thought, the fact that he actually did it. So many husbands I know of rely on their kids (esp daughters) to sort out the birthday and anniversary cards/presents for the wife.

OP - as long as you are not struggling financially if you were to split. Then again, you say nice house, etc but I think "Nice big house = lots and lots of housework", better to have a compact flat with security alarm, parking space, and less housework. You probably need less storage with only one person's things to store as opposed to two.

OP - this point may have been made but I haven't had time to read the whole thread.

You can by all means separate - you have the right to decide that with or without his consent. However, it is arrogant to suppose that he will have you back once you have walked out. Your OP reads as though you'll leave him and expect him to wait whilst you make your decision. Even if he actually intends to have so little respect for himself to do this, when it comes to it, it's very likely he won't. He'll start ameding his life out of necessity and it is likely he will cope and find his own happiness. If you then tried to come back, he may not have you.

My parents divorced - the reasons for the divorce were much "worse" than the reasons you are giving for considering separation. Despite this, they still spend time alone together. They are both remarried. Do not underestimate the impact of the huge amount of time you have been together and the fact that you have jointly raised a family.

It may be the best thing for you to leave. But you should be sure and you should leave for good to allow both of you to heal and build your lives again.

I apologise for the overall tone of my post, it is meant to help you, not berate you.

SOTT- all of that rings a bell with me!
I feel that I became a 1940s housewife even though I was living on my own and working when DH and I got married.
I did everything domestic except major DIY. DH was supported 100% so that his career could flourish- and yes, that allowed me to work part time, but I did that so one of us was around for the kids.

He does remember birthdays and anniversaries- but each year comes up with nothing except a bunch of flowers- saying he doesn't know what to buy me. One year- it's a joke now- he bought me the same book- twice. One copy was sitting on the shelf where he could see it. When he had a landmark b'day I arranged time off for him at work, ( all as a surprise) got my mum to come and babysit, ( she lived 300 miles away), booked the city break ( overseas) and presented him with the tickets and a beautiful hotel.

I got nothing except a day out locally as he couldn't think of what I might want to do.

He always has the right INTENTIONS but it never works out in practise.

He has had meals cooked, washing & ironing done, house cleaned, kids brought up , etc etc- and all he has had to do is get up and work each day.

When we married I relocated, gave up my job and friends, and had to start all over again.

BB- I hear what you say and I understand that.

I know he may not have me back even if I wanted that. However, neither is it unheard of for couples in long marriages to have time apart and see what' s what when the dust setles. If he was asking the same of me, I think I'd go along with it. I do not expect him to put his life on hold. If I am being honest, the 6-month trial or whatever is my way of coping emotionally with what could be a permanent split. he has said clearly that if we do part then we will each get used to being alone, so maybe it would be better to have a clean break at the start. However, after such a long marriage I feel we both need tokeep an open mind as to what the outcome of any separation might be.

You really do just need to get on with it I'm afraid - there's no easy way to do it.

My mum left my uncommunicative, non confrontational dad after nearly 20 years of marriage, also after spending the majority of those waiting for us kids to get a bit older for her to be able to do it. It took quite a few very painful months for her to physically leave as he just wouldn't let her - spent all his time crying, begging, wouldn't eat and generally went into a deep depression. It was awful to watch and made it all the worse for my brother and I - my mum just desperate to get away but kept hanging around because of the guilt, and my dad a complete wreck :-( I thought he'd never get over it.

Fast forward four years and they had both remarried and today (some 16 years later, are happier than I can ever remember seeing either of them. It was clearly the best thing that ever happened to them.

Again, you just need to DO IT. The sooner the better.

Agree with Snooch - JFDI

Not fair on anyone to wait around and you will be happier

OP I stuck to my marriage vows but unfortunately my ex wife didn't.
But que sera sera...that's life.
Maybe you've got empty nest syndrome?
The kids are all grown up and therefore the main glue that cemented you and the old man together has evaporated.
It don't mean you can't try to find some new glue to repair those joints though.
It's gotta be worth a try.

I mean...what have you got to look forward to if you leave him?
Internet dating and all the morons and cock photographers who populate that.
You'll be begging to go back with him after a few months of that craziness.

?? can't see any posts? something weird happened to MN.

Gawdon- I am sorry but I cannot agree with anything you have said.

I fully understand the empty nest syndrome. I have never in fact been busier- my life is full. But it's not working with DH.

What have I got to look forward to? You mean that I can't imagine enjoying life without a man in it?

Can I ask why you are on MN anyway? You seem to b giving a very one-sided view on all of this and very lacking in any real understanding.

I came onto Relationships about to post about my situation but I think this thread is already expressing it.

I tried to separate from my h today. We have been together 15 years and have two dds age 3 and 6.

I told him it was over and I wanted him to leave. He was very angry but agreed to move out temporarily. But then he changed his mind and said he would never let me take his kids away from him, and wouldn't leave. He thinks we should work things out. We have already tried counselling which was useless.

I can't be the one to leave - he is barely capable of looking after himself let alone the children.

I just don't love him. I've been miserable for years, but can't bear the pain he will be in at being parted from his children. I feel I have to choose between him being miserable or me. I have no idea what to do.