The Brave Babes Carry On Past The Easter Booze Offers.

[NotTheMessiahJustMouseface]

Hello,

I'm Mouse, well, I am usually!

Welcome to the Brave Babes Bus.

This is a journey of sobriety, started almost a year ago by the wonderful jesuswhatnext. So why not come aboard and find a seat. There's heaps of support on here whether you are sober, drinking or somewhere in the middle.

And, for those of you who want a bit of history, here are the Previous Threads

mouse sorry that you are struggling - are there alternative things for hot weather that you could enjoy - bulk buy your favourite ice lollies (or make them from Bottle Green sparkling ginger and lemongrass presse), or buy some indulgent ice cream, or spend time keeping your hands busy by planting a little seed tray with flowers, or make a daisy chain for your dd.

Thanks venus I'm not very good at taking my own advice about not beating yourself up about screw ups.

I guess I'm scared that my sponsor might dump me because I'm crap at this abstinence thing and it's a requirement! I did a month during january, but I haven't managed more than a week since I started going to AA and it's bloody confusing and frustrating.

The whole higher power thing is difficult to grasp I think. I hear lots of people sharing about how when they were thinking of having a drink something would happen that would stop them (like bumping into another AA member), and they see that as their higher power stepping in. Last night when I left the NA meeting and was heading for the shop I was desperate for someone to stop me. I had left the house in a massive hurry and had forgotten to pick up my mobile, so I couldn't call anyone. There are no payphones any more! I walked for ages and didn't pass a single one.

Hi Insinde I've tried thinking of the enormity of the universe as my higher power, I think perhaps I need to consciously make a decision as to what my higher power is because without a definite picture in my head it seems a bit futile. I don't believe in 'god' in any traditional sense which I think is hampering my efforts.

I'm only just working step one at the moment - I'm hopeful that as I get further into the steps (particularly steps two and three) that things will get easier.

I hope everyone else on this thread is having a good day. If you're thinking of having a drink then think of me, and thank your lucky stars that you're not in my head today

Golly

"I guess I'm scared that my sponsor might dump me because I'm crap at this abstinence thing and it's a requirement!" NO IT ISN'T. The only requirement is a desire to stop drinking. When I started, I didn't even have that. I still made it eventually.

As to why AA doesn't work - well, think of AA as being like a bus (like this bus, perhaps, which, even though it's not all AA, does many of the things that AA sets out to do.) The difference is, you're the driver. You can get on the bus, spend as much time there as you want, enjoy the warmth, the camaraderie, the view, the sing songs - but it's only going to "work" if you are driving it. The good news is, if you do do that, it's much more efficient at getting you where you want to go than walking alone is.

I sometimes worry about the pressure on newcomers (less than a year sober) to get a sponsor, because a sponsor implies you're going to work the steps. Whereas, in my experience, what newcomers need is a whole cluster of friends, from a week to a decade sober, who can give practical advice on how to get physically sober and deal with the social, mental and emotional fall-out of that. That's what I got in my first year in AA and it saved my life. I'm not knocking the Steps or sponsorship at all; just saying that they are of limited use until you are physically dry, and that that is largely a practical matter based on experience and community.

"The whole higher power thing is difficult to grasp I think." I have to be honest, when I hear someone say "then so and so turned up and that was a god-incidence" or "that was my HP in action" I nod politely but do not believe a word of it. My own higher power is very real, but is definitely not a god who can intervene in life or make things happen. My own higher power is a combo of the group (there IS power in a union) and my own unconscious (who wants the best for me, can make me do things, but who I cannot control or manipulate). To all intents and purposes I am an atheist outside the rooms of AA. I know that some people in AA would think that this is not "playing the game" - but I have yet to find a single element of the programme that cannot be explained in this context. The point is, it works for me. You may want to borrow this; you may want to find a god; you may even just believe in the group. The important thing is, YOU decide. As I was told, "the only thing you need to know about God is, it's not you!"

Stick at it; you're doing fine and you're not dead yet, so there is still hope!

Ah,Golly the Higher power, eh.

I think (and it's coming straight down here ) that no-one can tell you to believe in a "Higher power", or if indeed there is one.

Truthfully, for myself, I do believe there is, but I don't go to a Church or Mosque, or anywhere "organised" to share my faith, in Whatever, or Whomever I have faith in. It's just in me, and I couldn't explain what it is really.

I do know that every morning, and night time, I sort of have a chat, in my head, and says thankyou for my blessings, and hope that I can keep on the straight road, regarding everything today, or tomorrow, depending on what time it is!

Now, obviously, for me that doesn't always work, but sometimes it just helps me get straighter in my head.

I wouldn't get stuck into decisions about what your "Higher power" is, it will come, or not, it doesn't mean either way, that you are better, or worse than anyone else, or less deserving of help and love.

On a different note, how not sorted is this: I have just done half a report on spelling patterns (hence the break), and spell checked, and found that I have got all the "ie" and "ei" words wrong, practically the whole way through
Back to the grindstone.....

X posted Miflaw, much better said

The power of the community - that's an interest concept. I shall have a think about that one, it could be very workable. I have a problem with handing over the control to my HP (I'm a pain, aren't I?). I was brought up to believe that independence and self reliance were essential. I have ingrained beliefs that I mustn't rely on others only myself. I'm having to break down this idea little by little and it's still kicking in strongly when my guard is down.

I'm off to my brother's for the weekend tomorrow. I won't be able to go to a meeting today because I'm utterly hungover and anxious with it and although there is a meeting quite close to his house tomorrow evening it will be a push to get there by the time it starts (long drive), which means it's highly likely that I won't get to a meeting until I'm back at home on monday. Urk. My brother hardly drinks btw, so that's not going to be an issue - I think I've just got used to going to a lot of meetings

"I have a problem with handing over the control to my HP (I'm a pain, aren't I?). I was brought up to believe that independence and self reliance were essential. I have ingrained beliefs that I mustn't rely on others only myself. I'm having to break down this idea little by little and it's still kicking in strongly when my guard is down."

I think the key is in the serenity prayer - "God (or whatever) grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference."

Start with the second line - "courage to change the things I can." That fits your upbringing and it's very sensible. As an adult, you are expected to earn your own crust, wipe your own arse, wash your own dishes, whatever. And why wouldn't you unless a disability prevented you from doing so?

Now think about the first line - "accept the things I cannot change." If, God (or whatever) forbid, you got cancer, would you go to the doctor? Or would you say, "no, I'm going to sit at home and think myself better?" Less dramatically, supposing you get diaorrhea (a familiar concept to most heavy drinkers.) Are you going to say, "well, if I think hard enough, I can control my bowels"? Or are you going to accept it and adjust your day accordingly (e.g. not going on a 10 mile hike far from any toilets that you had planned)?

"Wisdom to know the difference." You go for a job. You prepare thoroughly; send in the perfect CV; learn about the company; get your suit dry-cleaned; set your alarm clock. You go to the interview and answer all the questions as best you can. Those are "the things you can (change)." That's self-reliance.

Now you leave the interview. You go for a coffee; you go home. From now on, nothing you can do can change whether or not you get the job. You can't send thought-messages to the interviewer. It's out of your hands. You have to "accept the things you cannot change".

And this awareness - that some things you can change alone and should, whereas others you either need help or you have to put up and shut up - is a critical faculty that many alcoholics have lost, or never had. And it comes with time. And when you have that "wisdom" you are a lot easier to recognise as conventionally sane.

Thanks MIFLAW. I always appreciate (and am grateful) for your input. Maybe I just spent a long time thinking that I couldn't change my drinking - I've known for an awful long time that I am an alcoholic but wasn't really prepared to admit it to anyone other than myself. Now I know that there is a way that can work, I'm just getting to grips with how because I was rather hoping for a magic spell but I do get that it takes some effort on my part. I liked the bus analogy - the magic I was hoping for was that I could just be the passenger but being the driver would make more sense to me.

I still have hope that I'll get there in the end.

People who believe in God often use the boat analogy - God's got his hand on the tiller, but you're the one pulling the oars!

Ah, the elusive magic spell.... Yes, I wanted that too. Something that would allow me to drink as much as I liked but never get to the stage where I slurred, fell over, or gave away other people's secrets . Something that would allow me to have great fun and giggle like a child. Something that freed me up to be witty and wise, without being a pain in the arse. Something that made me feel relaxed, and hopeful, and optimistic. Something where I could be the person I was meant to be rather than the shy, awkward, self-conscious person who worried about whether anyone like them. Something where I could sleep like a baby and wake feeling refreshed and OK. Something that didn't poison my body systems or put my liver under such enormous pressure.

Well Hurrah!! I've found the magic spell!! Learning to accept (and even like) myself a little, and drinking as much as I want of apple and soda, fizzy elderflower, hot chocolate. My magic spell is in not drinking

Venus - you just made me cry! (not difficult today, admittedly), it's so true

You know what else AA has given me? Friends. Proper real friends who aren't interested in me because I validate their own drinking.

Golly

I'm not in AA, but I would struggle very much with the idea of a Higher Power, for the reasons you outlined.

I'm a Christian; I go to church regularly and am bringing my children up within the church, but I have a huge problem with the concept of God "interfering" (for want of a better phrase); reaching down with a magic finger and making all well. When I started going back to church regularly a few years ago, I think I was hoping that I would miraculously turn into one of those people I always wanted to be and that booze would suddenly stop being such a bogey in my life, but faith alone wasn't enough to do that.

I was away with a friend a few years ago; she's not good in busy places, and when we were waiting at the station for our respective trains, mine was delayed meaning that she was the first to leave. Her first response was "I prayed that this would happen, and God has answered my prayer". I was furious, with her, and with this idea that God would cause the untold inconvenience to an Intercity full of people so as to prevent my friend from waiting for 15 minutes by herself at Waverley.

I do, very strongly, believe that prayer/contemplation/meditation connects the individual with an essence of God, or of goodness, which then guides their steps in the right direction. As to what "the right direction is"; well, if pushed, I would say that it's that which is most likely to promote harmony and well being between people - and if you have enough people moving in that direction, then you have something like the power of the community, which you mentioned above.

I was thinking this morning about how much this wonderful thread is giving me. If there has been an answer to my prayers for help to get to grips with alcohol, I think it's been stumbling across you fabulous people, reading my own thoughts, nodding ferociously at so many posts, and seeing some hope for my own future in reading about those of you who've turned and are turning your lives around.

(I hope no-one finds this offensive; I know my theology is distinctly shaky, but it works for me).

The people here are fantastic, aren't they?!

Trist - as a church goer, what is your resistance to AA, I'd have thought that with an 'essence of god' you'd be an ideal candidate, do you think it's just not for you or that you don't need to? I'm just curious btw, not berating you for not going [bugrin]

I heard once that there are three types of people in AA.

Those who believe in god, they do well and will be ok

Those who don't believe in god, they do well and will be ok too

And then there's those that think they are god. They don't do very well at all.

Essentially I think that means that those that try to survive on self will alone often don't manage to kick the booze for long.

Golly - no resistance whatsoever. I've got a young-ish baby, so haven't been drinking large quantities for the last while. I found here when I realised that it was slipping out of control again (not volume; more the secrecy, hiding, plotting etc) and so far I'm finding that this thread is keeping me going.

I investigated AA about 2 years ago (coincidentally when I joined MN, there was something similar on here then, and I was feeling very "triste" indeed, though never posted). I was frankly too scared to do anything about it.

I never saw how AA could stop me drinking, but paradoxically I'm thinking seriously maybe about going now as a way to help me stay sober.

Can't take those bunny ears seriously, btw...

I don't think you're supposed to take the bunny ears seriously [bugrin] hehehe.

Best of luck if you decide to go. I don't think anyone knows how AA works to keep people off the booze when they first go, but it does seem to work for lots of people. The message I got initially was 'keep coming back' (to meetings). It's the only message you need at first because I imagine the rest comes naturally as it becomes part of your life.

I've seen several babies at meetings, btw, in case you're worried about that aspect of it. Some people take their older kids too - to open meetings. I wouldn't personally take my kids but single parents often don't have a choice. The kids usually play on their nintendos but I bet their ears prick up when they hear the juicy stuff.

Really? That was one of my issues, that I actually would really struggle to get along in the evenings at the minute because of the baby.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hi-jack your post with discussions about the divine. Roll on Monday, if that is the soonest you can get to a meeting. I know you're feeling lousy today, but to an outsider, it honestly doesn't come across at all that you're "failing".

Right, off to interact with the offspring x

Hmm [buhmm] the bunny ears are a bit too 'rabbit'-like for me [bublush].

I hope MIFLAW isn't reading

No need to apologise, you didn't hijack anything, and I was talking about the divine aspect of AA anyway [busmile]

And thanks for the vote of confidence!

Why venus? wouldn't he like the bunny ears or is it the god talk that would bother him?

"I'm a Christian; I go to church regularly and am bringing my children up within the church, but I have a huge problem with the concept of God "interfering" (for want of a better phrase); reaching down with a magic finger and making all well." I feel the same, in my case because I am an agnostic atheist. AA works for me nonetheless.

The biggest mistake most people make with AA (and I made it myself) is to believe that there is something special about the members who are already sober. There isn't; they are just ex-drunks. It follows that everything they say or do in AA and outside is just their opinion based on their own experience. If you do ever go to AA and someone tells you "you HAVE to do X Y or Z" try to stay polite and then give him or her a very wide berth. Don't leave AA, but do feel free to avoid such people because they are typically dangerous imbeciles. I can suggest all sorts of things that might help a newcomer; but I can't make him or her listen and, who knows, he or she might follow none of my suggestions and get along just fine.

PS I am okay with bunny ears.

There are a few people in AA that I've come across who I would avoid like the plague, MIFLAW. One of which, during a share back, was extremely rude about the members of another meeting and then went on to flirt outrageously with the main sharer despite a lot of his share being about his long term girlfriend and their children! I'm surprised no-one stopped her, there was nothing covert or subtle about the way she went about it