Resentful, frustrated over this issue

[otchayaniye]

In the great scheme of things this is a small issue. Nothing like the strife some people have to contend with here. My husband is a supportive man, a soul mate, dedicated father. We both share the care of our 2-1/2 year old and both work part time. This works very well. All hunky dory.

But I have an issue that bothers me. I obviously don't go about it the right way. I'd like advice on how to go about it better and not engender the response that I do. Ultimately I'd like to be listened to and have my feelings acknowledged (you know, like you do with your kids as laid out in How to Talk...)

Our daughter is 2-1/2. Until she was 2 she was breastfed to sleep every time she woke up. When she was little (until 18 months) this was multiple times. Resettling took a long time sometimes. By about 8-14 months I was having a really hard time with this. I (we) chose to stick with this and ride it out because we didn't want to sleep train (I did seriously consider it at times). Thing is, she still needs us to sit by her bed until she's asleep. Now she's no longer fed to sleep my husband does this, but I sometimes do, especially if I've been working. I just feel I should.

This process can take 30 minutes after lights out, can take more than one hour. When it's bad, it frustrates me no end and
yes, I come out of the room and have a moan or want to talk about how better to do this (I do this more often than moan).

My husband either walks away from me, shuts his eyes, turns on the tv or rolls his eyes. He thinks I (his words) catastrophise, he doesn't accept that this has in some ways, and at some times this has tipped me over the edge (not seriously over the edge but shit, yes, it's bloody frustrating). I stress to him that it's a cumulative effect of such a long time lying in the dark bfeeding sometimes 4-5 times a night. And I face this all over again with No. 2.

The fact that he refuses to acknowledge how frustrated I feel leaves me feeling like a plain old nag, like I am complaining over nothing, that I'm some kind of high-maintenance, nightmarish harridan. He tells me I rant, he says he understands but that HE's had a hard day and doesn't want to listen (and he often has had a long hard day looking after her, I can't deny). I just feel painted as the 'difficult' person (a long running thing as I was hospitalised with depression while at university and have never shrugged off the 'mentally compromised' tag, even though I've been fine since).

I am just fed up with the hours spent wrangling a child to bed. I do AP, have never had a pram, still bfeed and take my
child on outings on the days he's sleeping off a night shift so he has peace and quiet. I am no slouch or moaner! (I'm not wearing my martyrs' badge, just explaining)

Of course, this comes up if it's been a bad settle and we get nowhere. I then spend an hour or so seething. And then those few hours I do have with my husband alone are then wasted.

Irony is that since he's started putting her to bed on the awkward nights HE comes out moaning about it. When I pointed this out to him he stormed off, saying "don't speak to me like that".

I am 20 weeks pregnant. I am (like my first) sick twice a day and feel sick on and off all the time. I am prepared to accept I might be blowing this out of proportion, but I felt this way before I became pregnant.

How do I stop feeling so resentful over this? Ultimately the way I speak shuts him off. He said once something similar about
his mother, I'm guessing I remind him of this.

I'm sorry if you think I'm being nasty. It's not my intention. I do feel there is a prejudice in your posts about other methods which seeps through and which needs to be addressed. It may be the pivotal in helping you to let yourself off the hook about something that isn't working and try something else.

No one is attacking AP. But you sound incredibly defensive about it and quite offensive about other methods. I am not generally one for parenting labels. I find them cloying tbh. I am happiest with common sense and intuition which has worked happily for my family.

The reality which the rest of us can see is that you will not be able to sustain your current system once the new baby arrives. Tandem feeding? Good luck. Really, good luck because it will be hard and harder still on your DD. Don't be surprised if she feels jealous and doesn't bond with her new sibling. These are all problems in the making.

Going back to the relationship with your DH, is there any chance that he is "fully onboard" with your parenting style so long as he doesn't have to actually do any of the work?

By work, I don't mean just just the actual childcare but also the emotional work of supporting you in your role?

It just sounds to me like he's happy for you to get on with it in your own way so long as he has to have no further involvement.

I have a child like this- it is such hard work, I understand. When baby arrives though, you just won't have time or head space to manage this bedtime routine.

If you start helping her self-settle now, she will hopefully have cracked it by the time your newborn arrives. She may not, but at least she will understand the intended routine and not be hurt and upset by changes coinciding with a new sibling. We certainly never went down the CC route- with an older child it is easier to explain what is happening.

If it helps, my 2nd was the complete opposite- settled himself to sleep from birth - at 3mo it was DD waking us in the night, not him, but hey ho!

I don't think she will be spoiled at all- my DD sounds very like yours, and is a secure, happy, confident very generous little girl, who completely adores her baby brother.

We're not really AP parents... but somehow we had AP children!

Is he like this over other (non-parenting) problems OP?

He can be. I also feel I am still painted as the 'difficult' high maintenance partner. This stems from me being hospitalised when at university after a rape abroad. We met there, still together (something is working, it's been 16 years) but it's easy for me to be the difficult one, the one who finds things 'harder'. Once in this loop I think he just hears one long moan from me, rather than words in sentences.

Anyway, got to go, he is picking me up (no hard feelings from last night) as our kid naps.

Having read some of the posts that appeared whilst I typed that essay.... DH has been a lot more tolerant of the moaning I do/did about children's sleep since he has taken a larger role in settling the children at night(now no longer bf)

"Going back to the relationship with your DH, is there any chance that he is "fully onboard" with your parenting style so long as he doesn't have to actually do any of the work?"

Totally. He cares for her on the days I work (3) and works 2 night shifts and is up and about with her just having had 4 hours sleep between those shifts.

He's more AP than an AP thing

Good luck, hope you manage to have constructive chats in the future

I can't believe you carry around a child of that age for a nap - in a sling! Surely anyone who advocates AP doesn't advocate breaking your back in the process?! Isn't that just meant for the early days? (and this is coming from an extended breast-feeder with a baby who hated to be put down for the first six months and who I quite happily carried in a sling).

I would ask your husband for his suggestions at a neutral time, and then make some decisions which work for you all, as a family, not just your daughter, and remembering that you'll have a lot less time once no.2 comes along.

Will someone please explain AP before I go bang? THanks.

OP, it sounds hell. However, if it is a hell you have chosen (and that is of course entirely up to you), and your DH is entirely behind your choice, I don't think this mysterious AP business is teh problem. The problem is a failure to communicate your anxieties and tiredness effectively without starting a row. This would be the case whatever parenting style you chose, no?

Again though. In God's name. What is AP? Google not helping.

Attachment PArenting!

Attachment Parenting! Google THAT!

Ha har! "Google THAT, mo fo!"

Thanks fellows. Off to do just precisely that.

not to be confused with Accidental Parenting!

Oh I see.

"According to attachment theory, the child forms a strong emotional bond with caregivers during childhood with lifelong consequences. Sensitive and emotionally available parenting helps the child to form a secure attachment style which fosters a child's socio-emotional development and well being."

Courtesy of Wiki.

So children brought up in safe, secure and nurturing environments will feel the lifelong benefits?

In other news, Pope recently observed to shit in woods.

What has that got to do with prams? I'm sure there's more to it

Maybe it isn't AP unless you go without a pram. You know sack cloth and ashes and all that.....

I don't want to criticise parenting choices, not least because I've no children myself (yet), but a disinterested bystander might be moved to observe that it does look like an awfully direct route to raising a spoiled child.

I mean - I realise the little blighters need love and affection and whatnot, but surely part of the preparation for life is realising that things do not always come at your beck and call, and that the world does not rotate on a carefully considered axis about you and you alone?

Hmph.

Poor OP, all she wanted was advice on getting her dh to listen to her.

Maybe if he's totally on board with it, he feels like when you 'moan', the subtext is that you're blaming him for it being his idea? Or something?

Just throwing an idea out there.

Mmmmyes 'tis true Zikes, and I did sort of point that out up there somewhere... Just genuinely had no idea there was such a thing and am stunned by the notion. But you're right, it's not the point of the OP...

bloofer- honestly AP is not about the world revolving around your pfb!

Oh OK Dark! I mean - It does sort of look like it from the OP but I realise I am talking out of mingled ignorance, one MN anecdote and some horrified Googling, so I'm prepared to be told otherwise! Anyway. 'Tis her pfb and her choice innit. I'm just intrigued...

Hi OP

This is going to be a little long-winded but there is a point.

My eldest daughter had same thing, she was bf on demand and so liked to fall asleep with mummy. As she got older it developed into same situation as yours. It was at times very frustrating and I'm sure, at moments, I moaned my head off too but looking back I remember this time very warmly. It was a very special time. I would lie and sing songs to her and make up stories and it was just loverly. Its the only time you ever have an opportunity to do this - you won't have the time after number 2 comes along, anyway its not logistically possible.

As a solution (I also instinctively hate controlled crying - not to say it doesn't work and isn't right for some people, its just not for me), we bought her a CD player and played stories for her to fall asleep to. We told her that if she opened her eyes or got out of bed we would have to take the CD player away and after following through with the threat only once the falling asleep without mummy was solved.

To the other posters who are a bit smug about their night time routines. I bf on demand with my second child and he should have gone down exactly same route, I did nothing differently - but he always hated sleeping with mummy or daddy would not settle till he was in his cot - still hates sleeping next to anyone. Prefers his own bed. Always likes routine. Without any major thought or move to establish any kind of routine, he likes one story, lights out and is asleep before we close the door.

So my advice is, try and think of these last few months as a very special time. Time which you will cherish and look back on with love and warmth for the rest of your life - as will she.

As for your husband not tolerating the moaning - men tend towards discussing things towards a solution rather than just going over an unsolvable problem with no conclusion. If he is anything like my husband he will see no point in spending time moaning about something which isn't going to change. I would just quit the moaning - just tell him that when you come down from the hour or so you would like him to do something to show you that he appreciates your frustration - make a cup of tea, bring you a drink, glass of wine, bar of choc.

Sorry for the massive answer.

Thanks everyone, even from those who think I've made things worse for us as I like to wear a hair shirt. It has really helped. As it happened I had a sensible conversation at a good time of day, used lots of 'solution' type language and it went well. Although last night was a looooong settle (she'd napped until 3.30 and basically wasn't tired when I put her to bed.) But tonight took no time.

I'd like to push her to drop her nap. She didn't have one today (husband very surprised) and when I put her to bed (husband off for another night shift) with her new night light she fell asleep in 5 minutes! Thing is, he likes her to have her nap she does seem to need it after a very active morning plus he says he gets some respite. Oh well, he can deal with it if he wants to continue with naps.

I have been thinking long and hard about this. It's not really our daughter's sleep that is the deep-seated issue. Or the parenting. It is that when he is tired he is so grumpy, so rude and dismissive (rolling eyes, walking off, shush-ing me) that it feels disrespectful, mean-spirited. After all, I'm his wife, I'm 5 months pregnant and still throwing up and hormonal. I don't think he'd react this way to a friend or a boss, but I'm fair game. This is by no means all the time, it's subtle, he's not directly nasty and is a very good and fair person, but this behaviour really does upset me when it happens (once every few weeks). And with our work patterns it's quite hard to find those calm non-tired moments to talk.

Today I was out of the house when he got in from his night shift and returned at 3pm. He'd only had a few hours' sleep as 'the phone kept ringing, your bank again? Are you having a parcel delivered (no) as UPS called (we live in a shared building and sometimes they ring our door)' The tone immediately got my goat as if it's my fault he hadn't got enough sleep. Then it was a bit of moodiness that I'd come in at 3pm and he'd asked how the day was and I'd said she'd had a tantrum earlier, I was joking about that and other things but he'd then said 'I just walked in and vented' at him. No such bloody thing. Just got my back up. Then it was following me around as I was putting the bloody night light up and criticizing me for the choice/where I was going to put it. Oh, and how I'd parked the car. Had to tell him to leave me alone. And then I had a bit of a cry (pathetic, but I'm 5 months pregnant, forgive me).

But then it got into this bloody competitive 'I've only had 2-1/2 hours sleep' (I'm thinking, yeah, I used to know a bit about that...' etc etc. Tedious, boring.

I mentioned how we parent not to judge or invite judging. It is because it has relevance to how we sometimes end up in these circuitous battles. I'll say something like 'I'm really tired, I was at work at 6am and it took til 8.30 for her to go to sleep' and he'll reply that 'I've had her from 6am until you got home, carried her blah blah'. It's not that he resents doing ANY of this, it's just that I think it gives him grist to challenge me when he's pissed off and tired.

I'm not a martyr. I am if anything a hedonist. I like to enjoy life and besides, have no audience for my hairy shirt activities. Who would I impress? But my MIL is a proper, proper dyed-in-the-wool martyr. Maybe he's learned the semiotics of martyrdom from her?

I also want to clear up that I in no way wanted to denigrate any other way of parenting. brass I think you are reading things into what I said. When I said 'no slouch', it's because my husband says things like that above (and it sometimes makes me feel when he says these things that I sit on my arse watching Trisha and eating violet creams all day). When I mentioned my daughter's speech, it is because people have told me that when she was feeding to sleep all the time that if I didn't sort out her sleep my daughter's development will suffer.

Nothing whatsoever seeped out because the intention isn't there. My best friend is a GF devotee and we joke about how different we are. I had the GF books and had hired a nanny before my daughter's birth (Blooflady ... be warned things have a habit of flying out the window when your own 'little blighter' arrives)

I fell into this I think because my daughter was prem (well, early at 35 weeks) and so tiny and slowish to put on weight that nothing else apart from breastfeeding her up and not letting her cry mattered. Nothing. I was so anxious, so determined that before I knew it, six months had flown by and we had to move continent (which depressed me a bit -- another of our issues as it was his assignment ending that brought us back before I wanted to leave).

I carried on and carried on like this. She thrived and I loved carrying her and feeding her. Yes, sometimes the sleep was tough but I was then and am now unwilling to train her in too draconian (for me) way.

Regarding AP: I don't like labels either, but used it as it's the best shorthand for the approach we've ended up with -- kind of like Unconditional Parenting: Sounds loathsome said like that but it's hard to explain in any other way quickhand. I have never read an AP book and don't hang around with people who do it or go to their forums (boak). I only know about it from a child psychologist friend.

And the pram (sigh). I like carrying her. Always have. I've lived in Asia and worked in Japan and spent time in South Korea and China and in Japan (and to an extent Korea) prams are unusual. They (and they are not big hefty shotputters) carry toddlers up to three, sometimes older. And breastfeed for years and commonly co-sleep. This is not the third world and these are not all martyrs. It's just cultural. Just like 50s behaviourism and prams/cots/training is culturally normal in Britain.

Supernanny? Have no problem with her (although she's a bit unasseptable) at all. She seems a nice nanny and is empathetic to kids, even though I wouldn't use her methods myself. It's the programme I object to. I know people who have worked on it. They goad the kids, don't let them sleep, take their stuff away so they get wound up so they can appear at their worst and then edit it so all you get is their worst. The kid has no say in this, which totally contravenes all producer guidelines. And then it's broadcast without their consent for our entertainment.

Now I've read all that back, I think I realise the problem. My husband is simply fed up living with someone who goes on and on and on

helps to get things down eh?

you're both obviously stressed and tired, and martyrs are highly irritating especially when they don't allow you to feel shit, ever. I sympathise. But it sounds like you are both lovely people at heart and you will deal with it with a bit of very open communication (good work on the night light).