Oh my god, we are so screwed.

[FrightfullyPoshFloss]

I knew Dp owed money. He has his debts and he is paying them. A whole £15,000, with no mortgage, no car, and no time at uni. But, have just been told today, that he also still has money on credit cards and also another loan for 7,000. I've been looking into getting a mortgage which is how all this has come out. How the fuck has he managed to screw this up so badly? How the hell are we going to overcome it?

if you haven't already, I would look into your financial position if you separated from DP - if you can convince yourself and him you could manage financially without him, then that may also motivate him to change his ways.

If he is not in arrears & you do not want to be negotiating smaller payments (which could affect your credit rating) the CAB will only be able to give you limited advice.

Having had huge problems in my relationship because of differences of opinion over how to deal with money my advice is simple deal with it now; deal with the root of it; and deal with it together.

Is there an issue about the amount of money you are bringing into the house for instance? My "dh" had a big problem with the fact that I only worked part time and this was a major factor in the way he dealt with our money.

Hope you sort this out.

Floos - What a shock for you. How can people be SO irresponsible!??

I have a funny feeling my DH has a little surprise for me along these lines. I knew he had defaulted on a £5k bank loan before I met him. Shortly after that he told me he had also had a £750 loan from a dodgy loan company. As far as I knew that was it. But over the last few years he has slipped up and implied there are 2 more debts..... he denies everything when questioned.

I agree w/Flum, being in that much debt and taking on a 125% mortgage does NOT sound a good idea at all. We rent, and it's tough, but tenancies are much more flexible to get out of it you hit a REAL rough patch - say, a redundancy (those tend to happen at the worst times!), long-term illness, unexpected expense, etc. - than selling a house. Particularly one in which you've borrowed 125%. Not a good plan at all, especially given that property prices are not rising in all areas.

Plus, you can always qualify for housing benefit as a renter if thinks hit the skids. Can't do that w/a mortgage.

Please see a debt adviser immediately. Also, your partner's need to drastically overspend needs to be addressed so this won't happen again.

Good luck.

Plus, by taking on a 125% mortgage, you're strategy is to take on more debt to pay existing debts off. Whilst this can work in some cases - for example, if you have a LOT of equity built up in a home, or you're getting a student loan to train for a new job which will increase your income level significantly - it sounds like very shaky ground in your instance.

Floss - would recommend that he cuts up ALL his cards. That you don't have a joint account (you don't want stuff that's earmarked to pay rent or mortgage disappearing), that you have a direct debit of "pocket money" going into an account for him that only has a card to withdraw money out that's there - not a debit/credit or any overdraft facility and you take over the entire finances. Then next stop, CAB.

I do think he needs to now earn your trust again that he can be responsible for money before you let him ANYWHERE NEAR a joint account

Agree with not taking out a 125% mortgage at the moment... there's so much uncertainty with the housing market, and even in a strong housing market your house isn't going to gain that much even in 5-10 years - it'd put you in a very precarious position.

There's a good article at the moment on the Motley Fool about long term house prices gains - I really don't think you're going to get the equity to gain to cover that extra debt, and it really could cripple you.

I don't think we need to go bankrupt. The debts, although huge, are being payed every month. I need to question properly and be shown what is left remaining that he owes and over how long. I don't know that he will do this at home, so maybe going to CAB might help just to get everything out in the open. I will see if we get a chance to chat properly today (he's at work tonight).

I did the CCC thingy and it said that our debts our manageable, which, although huge, I have to agree with. Am beginning to think that with the long term cheap loans or 125% mortgage we would have this debt hanging around us for the rest of our lives. If we are accepted for the mortgage with my bank and we really apply some self discipline we should be able to clear the lions share (his!!!) in aout 3 years. But like I said, I need to find out what is left owing and how long for, I'm sure he has told me that he extended the large loan, he is being evasive about that again.

Basically I am to blame in many ways for just trudging along ignorant to his money problems. But before DS I felt I shouldn't be jointly responsibly for paying towards what has been his mistake. I scrimped and struggled during my nurse training, and it just infuriates me that he lived at home and still raked all this up!

At least half to two thirds of this debt was accrued before we met. When he was living at mums paying a token rent. He has, I have always felt, tried too hard to keep up with his friends, some of whom were earning more money than him. This is why he has nothing to show for all these debts.

Money Saving Expert has a good "get out of debt" guide that you may find a good starting point.

hAVE WORKED out the loan sums. DP has given me all his paperwork, and I now know exactly what he has in loans. CC we will sort out later today (or I'll try...)

Basically if we were to get the homestarter mortgage from HSBC for a house worth 120,000 (ie, no stamp duty) we will pay 250 a month less than we do at the moment. Which is exactly the amount we would need to clear all of our loan debts in the 3 interest only payment years of the mortgage plan.

Where having another baby which I would very much like would come into this at the moment I am not sure. But at least if we can feel that things are going to be sorted, and hopefully pay off one or more of the debts along the way, more money will be freed up and things might start to get more sorted.

Of course, we will have to spend the next six months saving like maniacs to get a mortgage, but hopefully it will stand us in good stead for future. Does this sound like a crazy plan?

Thanks Georgina, I have been becoming well aquanted with martin's site over the past month or so!!

Yes, it sounds like a very crazy plan.

I'm still not convinced either Floss. Aside from the problems if you have to move, what also concerns me is whether your DP can conquer his overspending, and is capable of sticking to 6 months of saving like mad. Unless DP is motivated to radically change his spending habits and attitudes towards money, the only way I can see this working is if DP lets you take complete control of the household finances (which again would take a huge change to DP's attitudes)

had similar problem a few years back - after taking out consolidation loan to cover debt, closed all DH accounts, ripped up his CC, got joint account and joint card so all spending is now visible

major breakthrough though was actually getting him to accept that he is clueless and needs help

infantile yes, but its working

how can grown men be so utterly clueless?

In addition to the points mumtosteven brings up, it means 3 and a half years of not having a baby you want. And getting yourself in VERY, VERY serious long-term debt in order to pay the debts off. You are banking on all going to exactly to play for 3.5 years or you will very possibly be looking at bankrupcy.

Just from my own 2p and my own experience, robbing Peter to pay Paul NEVER works.

I kind of agree with the others.

It takes a long while to learn to change your spending patterns. I know this, because we went through years of consolidation, finally getting some breathing space then running up the debt again as we "relaxed" and took less notice of where the money went. We've more or less conquered that now by having a joint account for bills and various different "pocket money" accounts - we still have our moments of screwing up, but thankfully so far it's usually only so far as it takes a couple of months of frugality to sort out again rather than having to remortgage or consolidate. When dh was made redundant - we had to drastically re-evaluate a lot, gave us a big shock when re realised that without dh's parents bailing us out we would have lost the house for all our "apparent" ability to "afford" repayments.

As has been said already - if you're renting, housing benefit kicks in if something terrible happens. If you're on a mortgage, you don't get any relief until you've been out of work for a year - and believe me, a year is enough rope to hang yourself with...

We have made a pact that we will never ever ever put ourselves in that position again. Even though I occasionally feel a hankering for a much bigger house...

I'm really sorry to hear this Floss. I hope you don't take offence at this, because I am angry for you, not against you, but what a complete and utter BASTARD!

How dare he try to blame your lack of income for his debts! And how dare he lie about telling you about the new loan - pregnancy does not mean you forget things like that!

He has lied and lied, he got himself into serious debt whilst you were pregnant, when you needed him the most, that money could have been spent on the baby, on giving you both a secure future, instead what do you see for it? He needs serious help otherwise, no matter what you sort out, he will find a way to go on borrowing. It sounds as though this is a habit that has gone way out of control, and he's denying it.

If he cannot sit down and admit his faults, stop passing the buck and actually apologise for what he has done, the personally, and this is only my opinion mind, I would leave him and let him sort his own mess out. From what you have said, he is not yet able to see his faults. If he knew that he had a problem, then why has he got 8 credit cards????

Sorry Floss, it's not what you want to hear I know, but I do get the impression that if you stick with him, you may well end up back in this position again, and you and your ds deserve a secure future, I doubt he's going to be able to provide that.

I have to agree w/RRW in that consolidating things, signing IVA's, etc. doesn't address the root of his problem. Saying 'Oh, he'll be good from now on' when he's addicted to spending is like a smoker saying, 'Oh, I'll be good from now on. Smoking is costing too much, so I'm not going to do it anymore.'

A person w/a problem like this has to REALLY, REALLY want to stop and to seek help for it. Also, as RRW pointed out, the person HAS to accept personal responsibility for his actions before he can move on. Blaming you and you're not earning enough isn't accepting personal responsibility. It means he still has a problem.

And, as Georgina pointed out, there may be some small stumbles on the road to recovery.

But your plan requires very strict adherence or you could be looking at homelessness and ruining YOUR credit for the long-term if you get into this mortgage and then it goes tits up for whatever reason.

Not a good plan, IMO.

I know it isn't what you want to hear and we all want to have as many kids as we'd like and own our home, but Rome wasn't built in a day, unfortunately.

I am just so frustrated with renting. Our last flat was sold while we were renting, which just resulted in me getting into more debt as it was unexpected and we had no spare caah. I really want some security.

His attitude now is that he dosen't want a mortgage and he dosen't want another baby so thats all ok then.

Have done ML budget plan and paying off all debts and towards the mortgage we would have 500 left a month. Thats before any overtime that DP may or may not get. Including childcare costs etc etc. Not sure if this link will work but this is the budget planner link\www.moneysavingexpert.com/budgetcalculator.phtml\pretty thorough I thought}. So would it really be too much to ask to try and save half of that? I guess I would need to try and take over all our money. But he will never let me do that. Sorry if this is all goobledigoop but we've been rowing about it all and I'm so upset.

try that again shall I here

I'd try renting market rent from a housing association before I took out a mortgage for 125%. Just not a good deal at all - MUCH higher interest rates and penalties b/c of course the risk is greater w/such a mortgage. Also, you're not earning ANY equity at all until that 25% is paid off.

Many housing associations offer a great deal of their properties at full market rent but w/an assured tenancy, so there's no chance of being turfed out by buy to let, get rich quick landlords.

And then, as you're training for a shortage profession, look into what sort of help you can get obtaining a mortgage as a key worker.

Might be a better option especially if he won't give you control of hte finances.

Sorry I know am rambling. Renting will cost just as much, if not more. I feel we ought to go and see someone about what they think we can afford to do, not to do etc. We both have jobs where we are quite secure, nurse and PC, with good sick pay if required. With adequate insurance, would this be risky? I know probably some of you (all of you?) are wondering whether its a good idea to get a mortgage and further commit to him. But I have DS and so feel that I should. He needs to change though and we need to have a proper chat when I can be calmer, that isn't right now unfortunately. I'm so angry. And I know there is no point.

As you can probably tell, I do know very little about mortgages and am just trying to make the best of our situation. I hope it dosen't look as though I'm ignoring all that you are saying, I'm not. I am though the sort of annoying person who harps on about the thing they have set their heart on untill it becomes so blindingly apparent that what I want just won't happen and then it shatters me. It's not a fun way to be! I am trying to take it all on board though, so thanks everyone.

The homestarter mortgage is a 100% one EPIS. The idea being that for the first three years it is interest only and if we save half of our 'spare' money we could clear the lot in that time. Even if we didn't, it would just mean that it took another two years for all the debt to be gone. Providing of course, DP does not cause any more.

Others have offered loads of practical advice and you're obviously on the case here.

So, my point is more focused on how you cope with it from a domestic point of view.

I have a huge amount of sympathy with you.
My husband and I have similar problems - he spends money like water, I wake up in the night panicking because we just get constantly poorer (more and more debt)in spite of having a reasonable income.

But, whilst your husband's behaviour and attitude are unfair and selfish, from what you've said and from my own experience, I think the worst thing you can do is keep pointing this out to him, keep showing him your resentment. He is much more likely to go into defensive mode and the arguments to just spiral.

If you could you try to calm things down between you, by swallowing your resentment (or at least trying not to let it show) and sounding positive about sorting it out together, you may be able to get him back on side, so that he feels as if you are both sorting stuff out.

In my experience, if he feels good about himself (or at least not totally shit), he is much more likely to contribute properly to my plans (especially if he doesn't think of them as just my plans that I am imposing on him, but rather as ours ).

You don't have to pretend you haven't been/are not angry about his behaviour. You can acknowledge this, but say that you don't want to be angry anymore, you just want to get things sorted and pull together on it.

I'd ask him to accompany you to any meetings with CAB and the like - by saying that you value his opinion and need his input too. Try to make him feel as if he has something to contribute and is not just being constantly punished for being out of control of his situation, otherwise he may end up resenting you and not cooperating in the financial plans.

That's just my opinion, based on how things work for my husband and I - obviously I don't know either of you, so I could be wide of the mark, but it may be worth a try.