why do women stay with abusive men?

[notpythagoras]

There is thread after thread where women are in an abusive relationship, posters tell them to leave and later the OP namechanges and asks essentially the same question. It might be (has happened to me) that the first thread was hijacked by calls of troll, or that she thinks she was misunderstood and got freak advice but often it seems that she is just frozen. Why is this? Is it for practical reasons? Is it a question of time to adjust one's mindset?

In a survey, 36% of female college students said they had been assaulted by a boyfriend, and of those, half stayed in the relationship afterwards. Is that the same syndrome? That can't be for practical reasons (like sharing a house and kids) so why do they do it?

I have some ideas but wanted to know what others thought/ had experienced.

#Ageing Grace# that rings bells.

Does anyone worry about custody of the DC? I mean the fact that your DH will get them on his own for some weekends?

Because it's normal to trust the person you love.

So you believe them when they tell you they've never felt this way about anyone else before.

And you believe them when they say you're soulmates.

And then you start believing them when they say you're being too flirty with your male friends. And so you stop seeing them.

And then you believe them when they say your female friends aren't nice to him, and while you still see them you know there'll be a row later and you start wondering if it's worth the "price" of a quick drink after work.

And you believe them when they cry after losing their temper and say they don't understand what's happening to them, that they've never had a problem with their temper before (and so therefore you think it must be you). Because those of us in this situation generally have underlying self-esteem problems anyway.

And then you start bargaining with yourself. He's tired, you think. If we can just get to the summer holidays / get the house move out of the way / deal with this situation with his parents illness / whatever else everyday life throws at you, it will all be fine. And it'll be the way it is 90% of the time, all the time.

Only in time that 90% fine turns to 75%, then to 50%, then on and on to hardly ever.

And by then you're not seeing any of your friends, you're editing everything you say, and you've become something of an authority in the genuinely intricate skill of Keeping Him On The Right Side. He'll throw down gauntlet after gauntlet, and you'll dodge them again and again. But because you're not perfect, eventually you'll fail to dodge one, and a full-blown row will start. And you'll actually blame yourself because you'd done such a good job of defusing the other six bombs (to change metaphors), why didn't you notice that one?

And as a result of that, the first time he hits you you'll be concentrating so hard on defusing the argument you'll barely notice. And afterwards you'll tell yourself that wasn't really domestic violence, because you weren't on top form either and it was sort of your fault. Which of course, it wasn't, but by that time you're so screwed up you think it is.

Thank fuck I got out.

Many times I think it is because of children who love their Dad and the woman des not want to break that up.

Glenn, the abuse is not about dislike/hatred per se, it's about the abuser needing to have someone to tear down and dominate.

there would be no 'fun' in it for them if they simply left the victim.

The victim is told to move for their own safety. You can't reason with abusers, they are not normal people, they are damaged.

You can talk to them, tell them not to do it, but they won't/can't stop.

For me the realisation that 'H' was panicking when I was taking him to the airport and 'letting him go' was like a light being switched on.

I realised in the 45 mins there that I have been trying to reason with a madman, and that is not going to work. Ever.

Each situation is different, we all give up the relationship in different ways.

Gaining strength as we go, through wonderful resources such as MN, RL friends and observing how other people actually life is so helpful. This is why abusers tend to isolate their victims first, so they don't have a support network to tell them that what he or she is doing is wrong.

Some can find the strength to get out, others can't. Each to our own. All the rest of us can do as a society is to keep reinforcing to everyone that no-one has any right to dominate and control another human being.

Oh mouseface, every snippet and soundbite of your story has my heart bleeding for you.

How about if one doesn't FEEL abused but other people call it? How do you know who to trust and what is normal in other people's homes?

As there are various levels of strength/life spans/intelligence there are many different types of abuse.

And then you believe them when they say your female friends aren't nice to him, and while you still see them you know there'll be a row later and you start wondering if it's worth the "price" of a quick drink after work.

The problem is posters like Longtalljosie, seem the typical abuser, obvious alenation with the persons friends, obvious hitting, there are a lot of far more intelligent abusers around than that. For expample they are like snakes and will wait to pounce, you moan about your friend, and suddenly they have you thinking your friend is the worst person going, then things change in the dynamics between you and your friend and the alenation is done by you with his little helping hand, this is why it is so hard for women in a situation with an abuser like this to get a grip of what is going on in their life, as someone said they fuck the body and they fuck the mind up, it all depends on the intelligence of the absuer and the abused.

I agree that a lot of women worry about custody arrangements. It's not uncommon for an abuser to attempt to discredit the mother in court & some even threaten to harm the kids if the mum leaves.

So many reasons:

Fear. Your abuser tells you he will kill you and/or the children if you leave. You believe him. Two women a week are killed by their partners or ex-partners.

Financial dependence. You have no access to money of your own, no real knowledge of how the benefits system works. You and your children are completely dependent on the abuser for everything.

Low self-esteem. Months/years/decades of abuse have robbed you of all your self worth. You cannot imagine how you are going to make it on your own.

Children. You don't want to break up the family. The children love their dad. The prospect of being a single parent is frightening. You don't think you could cope.

Love. You love your partner. You don't want the relationship to end. You just want the abuse to stop.

Manipulation. Your abuser tells you he is mentally ill/an alcoholic/he is so so sorry/it will never ever happen again/he will go for counselling and anger management. His friends and family confirm these lies and excuses. They say 'just give him another chance' 'he'll change'. It becomes impossible to stick to your guns. You feel sorry for your abuser. You feel responsible for 'helping' him, for making it better. He threatens suicide if you leave.

Nowhere to go. Your abuser has successfully isolated you from all your family and friends. You have no support and nowhere to go.

Self blame. Your abuser tells you the abuse is your fault. You believe him. If only you could stop winding him up/keep the house cleaner/be a better cook/partner/lover then he wouldn't have to respond the way he does. You tie yourself up in knots looking for ways to keep him happy and pacify him. You feel entirely responsible.

I could go on and on. But the long and short of it is that women often do not leave simply because it is not as easy as all that. Just because a woman does not/cannot leave does not mean that she deserves what is happening to her or that she must be getting something out of it.

On average women attempt to leave 7 times before making the break for good. Only the woman herself can decide when she is ready and no amount of frustrated people telling her what to do can speed up that process.

Of course the irony is that when frustrated posters imply that she is being spineless/a doormat/pathetic/a bad mother for staying, this simply lowers her self esteem further, confirms everything her abuser tells her anyway and makes her less likely to leave.

I think theres a social aspect to it too , an unpleasant one that is occasionally seen on here which is people making excuses and sympathising with the abuser.

I recall confiding in a relative about the name calling and yelling . She immediateley sympathised with him ie , is he stressed / tired / ill , shes sure he didnt mean it ect . At no point did she say " thats not ok and it shouldnt be happening ".

I had freinds throughout my marriage , i was not isolated in that way. My husband was sexually abusive and i would again confide with freinds and relatives .Their response was , maybe he didnt realise / maybe i need to have sex more often / maybe i need to write him a letter to explain . Even a counseller responded by casually stating that yes , some men like it like that and i should perhaps be willing to compromise .

Not one person said " this isnt ok ". Ever . Maybe they didnt want to see , maybe they had something similar going on and didnt want reminding , maybe they preferred to see the good in him , but either way , no one named it or spoke out against it.

What they did say however is that maybe i should be more understanding , willing to compromise , expect less " because , you know what men are like " ect ect. I refuse to be held responsible for someone elses shit behaviour , yet socially i was held responsible.

The question should be why do men abuse women and why is this socially acceptable.

Yes, dignified, yes

I is more socially acceptable (it seems) to collude with abuse than to have zero tolerance for it

even more, where dc are involved

it

Yes Dignified. Absolutely. Brilliant post.

I'm sorry you went through those awful experiences.

this is a good thread.
the question I want to ask then : is how can you best help someone who is in the situation you all describe so eloquently. How can a friend prompt that lightbulb moment where a woman realises what is happening to her. OR is it impossible. Does it always come from within?

Important question, ropesend. Just my take on it - it comes from within, but first the abuse target has to recognise what's really happening. Friends can help by validating their experience; as others have said, it's extraordinary how many people try to minimise and/or excuse it, which supports the abuser. Telling her it's awful & wrong - that her agony is real and unnecessary - that her partner is a bully - gives her a glimpse of the reality as seen from outside her relationship. Gentleness helps, too. The target may have forgotten what it feels like.

I think its pefectly possible and can happen with just one person saying " thats not right ". Things changed for me when i read UAs thread , it was like a thousand lightbulbs going off . Her H sounded just like mine and if she could do it so could i.

I also think it important to stop it happening in the first place. Many songs , films , books , soaps enforce the idea that all a bad man needs is a good woman to change him . Cheryl coles song " we gotta fight for this love " makes me cringe , along with other songs that normalise crap behaviour.

I think it begins at home , many parents tell their daughters that the boys are pulling their pig tails because they secretly like them. Theyre expected to be flattered and shrug it off yet its not ok. Many of us are taught that its ok for your family to yell at you or ignore you , and people your in a relationship with have special rights . They really dont . Sureley we should expect more from our partners than we do a stranger.

Because they hope it will get better one day. I knew he was being an asshole but thought he might calm down if we went to relate .

Or because they are terrified about how they will cope financially / emotionally.

I was very lucky because it was my house and I had lots of family support so I kicked XP out after a year of escalating abuse. Many other women wouldn't have that kind of financial back-up or support.

i think its because they keep it a secret for many reasons and as their self worth and mood become less and less,and also phyical injuries are inflicted the need for support,physical warmth and love become greater and the only place they can get that is from the abuser cos nobody else knows.
I used to feel alone and hurt and scared and lost-it was hard to refuse affection then even if it was from the perpertrator.

dignified that is so right - boy pulls pigtails, parents encourage girl to pay MORE attention to boy. When they should be saying 'run a mile, he is showing you what he is like...'

The grown up version of that is often seen on here when people post things like " Ive been seeing someone for a while , he thinks a lot of me but im not that keen . Ive tried to bin him but he wont have it ".

The op is often asked what the problem is , as though she has to justify it . Shes told at least shes lucky enough to have someone take an interest , that she should give him a chance , thats shes not been fair to lead him on and no wonder hes upset about it. Then we wonder why girls grow up beleiving they owe men something .

When i first met my ex arse , i never agreed to go out with him . He decided we were a couple and would turn up unanounced and uninvited . I was very young and found it very difficult to deal with. Whenever i tried to get shot he would turn up snivelling and post pathetic letters through my door .

I spoke to freinds and family who thought it was " sweet " and that he clearly thought a lot of me. I had been out with him once , as part of a group and didnt like being bulldozed but struggled to express that .I was told repeatedly by my family that i was lucky to have someone take such an interest in me , not to be tight and that he seemed a nice guy and i could do a lot worse .It didnt seem to matter to them that i did not like him . This added to the guilt and obligation he was already pouring onto me , and as a result i wasted 20 years with a man i did not like .

I have had conversations with my young teens and the feelings they have of feeling tight if they get asked out and say no. Their freinds say their tight and everyone is left feeling sorry for this poor boy . Absurd really. Ramble over.

Also I think you have to understand how soul destroying it is if you try to leave and can't. I tried twice before I was successful on my third attempt. He was having none of it. And the abuse just got worse and worse once I tried. It was only when external agencies became involved (and I include Mumsnet in this) and they were saying 'woah, he's really extreme, you are in so much danger' that I started believing it.

Also abuse can be so insidious. My ex never hit me and never once even swore at me or called me names. He was incredibly manipulative and controlling and still is. None of my family, his family or our friends will talk to me anymore. My sister has point blank said she doesn't believe me. Well, a whole selection of doctors, the police and Women's Aid obviously have no idea what they're talking about...

Notpythagoras - do you have your answer now?? You should have because there are some truly brilliant posts on here. They should be preserved somewhere so that women being abused can access them. The only thing that annoyed me was Glen (something) coming on in the middle of all these insightful responses and more or less asking the same Q- hope she has her answer too.

It is always a concern when a poster comes on about DV but it sometimes annoys me too when people pile in telling her she has to get out NOW - it just isn't that easy for all the reasons stated on this thread, and it takes time. I suffered DV as a young married woman of 22 and came from a loving home and thought all men werelike my dad! How naieve was that. I did get away from him for the sake of my little boy and myself but it wasn't easy.

I recently attended a DV training course (I work within the CJS). Those in abusive relationships said they stay because they believe that their partner will change.

Those in abusive relationships said they left because they realised that their partner would never change.

In the middle of all of this are thoughts of self blame, low self esteem, isolation (often created by the DV perpertrator), low self confidence, impact separation will have on any children, finances, employment, housing etc..