Is it possible to be racist when choosing a partner?

[CuppaTeaJanice]

I was talking to a single friend the other day about dating and choosing partners, and she said she didn't think she would want to go out with a black man. I was a little at this comment as I have never considered her racist in any way, she has many friends from a variety of ethnic groups and I haven't noticed her make any discriminatory comments before.

It got me thinking though - is it acceptable to discriminate when choosing a partner in ways that would be unacceptable when choosing, for example, a friend, a tenant or an employee?

I choose to have a partner who is a man. That's not because I'm sexist, it's because I'm heterosexual. I also choose a partner who has physical attributes that I find attractive - small nose, slim body, brown hair etc. Aside from personality, obviously - nobody chooses a partner based solely on looks, but there has to be some sort of physical and sexual attraction because that's part of a partner's role.

So, was my friend being racist? I think she was being a bit stupid, and may be missing out on a great guy for a silly reason, but if she just doesn't find black skin sexually attractive, is that any different from not wanting a partner with big ears, or red hair, or breasts etc.?

I don't think it's that straightforward.

I think that you can express a preference for certain atributes e.g. hair/eye colour, whether someone is fat/thin/tall/short, but I think that it's also easy to lose sight of the fact that someone's physical appearance is not actually a long-lasting part of who they are in terms of a relationship's potential success.

You could date the most physically attractive man in the world and he could turn out to be an arsehole, because physical trates have no bearing on what someone is like as a person.

What you would need to ask is, if you wouldn't want to date a black man, why is this? Is it because you genuinely don't find black people attractive and so don't feel that you would be initially physically attracted to someone who was black? or is it because them being black has certain perceived connotations - even sub consciously, which would put you off.

I think that differences in culture need to be taken into account when considering a mixed-race relationship, especially if you reach the stage of wanting to have children etc, however I think it's also important to remember that just because someone comes from a certain culture doesn't necessarily mean they all adhere to those cultural stereotypes. A black man raised in nigeria is likely to have a much different upbringing and consequently different cultural norms to a black man raised in London, for instance.

There are certain cultures that I would think hard about before getting involved (if I were in a position to be dating), e.g. I would think twice before getting involved with a muslim because of some of the practices within islam and the expectations of women, however I also believe that we should take people as individuals rather than judge them based on what demographic they represent.

There's a fine line between preference and prejudice IMO, and while I think it's fine to say that you might have reservations about dating someone who was from x/y culture due to your knowledge of that culture and fear that you would not be compatible, to dismiss someone purely on the basis that they are black does make you a bigot IMO.

AgeingGrace lol thank you for proving my point for me so perfectly!

I'm surprised we are still allowed to say white wedding, perhaps in these PC times it should be...

Ethnically diverse joining of a couple, not necessarily of the opposite sex, to whatever religious or non-religious binding they wish wedding.

Does not quite have the same ring to it

What wannabe said.

Oh FFS with the PC stuff.

It is bollocks and its an excuse for people to be bigoted and then say 'I suppose I am not allowed to say that now because its not PC'

It is not as rampant as you want to believe.

Most of it is made up by the tabloids or is urban myth.

If you choose to believe it is true that is your misfortune.

Doesn;t it depend on how we react to some person we are attracted to?

If we are attracted to someone who is perfectly lvoely, not violent, law abiding etc but although we really do fancy tehm decide not to date them purely on the basis that they are not from a certain racial group then that is racist.

I married a white male becuase he was the person I was most compatitble with that actually liked me back; however had I NOT married him becuase he wasblack that would be the raqcist bit surely? Attractions is a mix of innate and psychological but choice is where racism comes into play.

'I'm surprised we are still allowed to say white wedding, perhaps in these PC times it should be...

Ethnically diverse joining of a couple, not necessarily of the opposite sex, to whatever religious or non-religious binding they wish wedding.

Apart from the fact that is bollox because gay couples cannot (sadly IMO) marry in a Church, or even be amrried per se (I HATE the term Civil partnership when marriage would suffice but that's possibly just me), and to me a Church is what one means by white wedding, there ARE no PC police going around saying what we can or can't say, only people seeking to discount other people's opinions as PC (What does that mean exactly? Polictically incorrect- well do we only want incorrect things being said? I am proud to be fairly politically correct if that's what it is not becuase someone else wants it or I ahve been told to say it by the grauniad or anything except that my beliefs and some vague definition of PC seem to meet pretty well).

Well as a mum of mixed race kids I can say the PC stuff really does get on my nerves, it's a joke and it allows people to be racist, it is alive and well in the public sector, we need to stop being so sensitive because it just fuels racisim, thats my personal opinion anyway

Maybe because of my situation I have come across PC speak more often, but I think perhaps people are getting the wrong idea about what i was saying, I was married to someone from a different ethnic background,he was a total idiot but that was nothing to do with the colour of his skin.

My kids don't want special treatment or to be marked out as different, when the faced some racist bulling (only happend once), the school wanted to do this big thing about it and got the tone completely wrong as they were so desperate to do the right thing, I just wanted it delt with as bullying, if they had glasses thats what they would have been bullied about, thats what kids do

Well as the mum of mixed race kids who works in the public sector, has lived in many of the 'loony left' borough where this stuff is supposed to be rampant, I can tell you it ISNT.

A lot of it started as part of a dirty tricks campaign to discredit the left during the general elections in the 70s. The black bag thing is a myth for e.g.

The only people I ever hear spouting about PC gorn mad are the ones who want to be able to call 'a spade a spade' in more ways than one

PC doesnt make people racist, being racist makes someone racist.

What MrsDeVere said

I am sorry to sound so erm... I dont know [insert word]

But I do feel very strongly about this issue. I cringe everytime I hear people 'joking' about PC because generally some nasty bigoted comment follows and everyone then has to join in or they are part of the 'Brigade'.

I work in disability, I have mixed race kids, I have lived in several stongly left wing boroughs including Islington blimey - I am from Haringey

I just dont see it. I DO see a lot of the 'blah PC gorn mad, we cant even say paki these days'. I see that all the time.

PC gorn mad is a way of bullying people into keeping their traps shut lest they are seen as one of 'them'

I agree with you mrs devere. A lot of people will say that pc has gone too far with regard too..... maybe women's issues? gay rights? but they usually are outraged by anything which affects them personally. So pc is fine then? when people say 'pc' has gone too far it is because they are still being racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic/classist? (delete as applicable)

Me too Mrs Devere

The more I elarn the more I relaise how much that is true: my world religions degree, my disabled kids, my depressed DH ('oh he's looking for an excuse- for what? he still works, still studies; he just has a chemical imbalance triggered by streess, such as our youngest seeming to be our fourth SEN / SN child.....')....... the more I learn the more I see 'PC Gone Mad' type opinions equate to ignorance.

Informed opinion varies, but still tends not to rely on such meaningless catch all terms.

DH needs a harness to go on the rigs at uni? PC gorn mad.

DS1 tells someone off for calling him (sorry) 'a spaz'- PC gorn mad.

No dear, what you eman is, you don;t want to have to think any mroe deeply about what the terms mean or how they might impact on people that are not you.

And Muslims being offended at baubvles? yeah right. White slightly soft councillors thinking (probably with best intentions) they might be perhaps; very different thing.

I don't think so, Valium. I'm pretty sure I'm not racist but I do think being prejudiced against colours is bonkers! I thought those stories about "Baa Baa Black Sheep" being altered/banned were made up, but it happened where I live

Which is even odder when you consider that this is a sheep-farming area!

changing the words in baa baa black sheep is ridiculous, because it implies that black is a bad word?! why is black a bad word? because white is better than black!?

In what context would these updated nursery rhymes be presented? in books? in toddler groups run out of church halls? i never came accross it!

Have a Scram :) How do you like it? Only got brown medium-processed sugar, I'm afraid

Valium, I agree but trying to get that point over in some circles can cause apoplexy ...

You're alright, I take sweetener and like my coffee black.

Agree about words, absolutely. Although I am famous for being the woman who annoyed the school when the Church we are afilliated to handed out laflets entitled teh dangers of the dark and went all dark is bad / black is evil on the reception kids- very annoying(dissertation in salvery, loads of anthrpological stuff on that). black is black. It's a colour )or as lighting designer DH would say not.....). it means your skin has more melatonin. That some of your ancestors were also black. And nothing else. At all. Same as white.

I have mixed race kids too and although 80% of the people i have dated have been white, people look at my kids and make assumptions about who I should or would date :S

But they were changed because someone belived the lie. This is how these things become part of the myth.

Take the 'fact' that Birmingham banned Christmas. It is still touted as absolute truth. It doesnt matter how many times it is explained and refuted, people want it to be true so it is.

Do you want to get me started on the new adoption rules and how they will rescue thousands of black babies from the workhouses across the UK?

I wouldnt, it wont be pretty.

If someone has a personal preference, that is entirely up to them. Even if it is based in racism, it is up to them. You can't change what someone thinks. Not yet anyway.

You wait till that PC Brigade get their way! It wont be long......

True Hammy

But it's still possible to attempt to define it, and to dislike it.