Appearance, hygiene, self respect... am I being terribly shallow?

[TheMoistWorldOfSeptimusQuench]

I've been with my boyfriend about 4 months. He's lovely, and I'm really happy to be with him. But we seem to have hit a point of conflict, and I would love some opinions to help me unravel it all.

He has OCD - the real deal, obsessive handwashing etc - and spends an hour in the bathroom every morning, so bodily he is very clean and un-stinky.

However, his clothing is all from charity shops, very scruffy and mostly pretty unflattering. That isn't particularly a problem, but he only washes his clothes about once a fortnight (including the jeans that he wears every single day). So he often looks quite dirty.

He also has an aversion to haircuts and shaving (I have permanently chapped, dry skin on my chin from kissing him).

Because of all the washing, his skin is very dry and flakey, particularly on his hands and face. It's unpleasant for him, he hates it, and does slap on some moisturiser from time to time, but as he never exfoliates his skin (although he did buy a facial scrub after I suggested it), the dry skin never goes away.

As I said, a lot of this isn't a massive problem for me, but he is someone who has quite low self esteeem and a history of depression, and my feeling is that this is all linked together somehow. I wonder whether taking more pride in how he presents himself to the world might actually benefit his mental health.

Given his issues, I'm very careful about how I broach this, as on the handful of occasions I've suggested he wear something more flattering, or that he might want to wash his jeans more often, he takes it very badly. He feels that I'm too critical, and that caring about appearance is extremely shallow.

I take a reasonable (but not excessive) amount of care in my appearance. I'm also fairly tidy and keep my home reasonably clean (clean once a week, bare minimum really - the house isn't sterile and always feels quite lived in and comfortable). Doing so makes me feel relaxed and on top of things generally. Last night he was saying that I basically need to stop caring about such things, and that I'm just being a bit silly.

I am not hung up on appearance, I'm really not. But I do think we all make little, usually sub-concious, judgements on how people look, and I don't want him to be disadvantaged. I also - possibly misguidedly - think his self esteem might improve if he made a bit of an effort.
And yes - there is a little bit of me that would like him to make the effort for me.

So does he have a point? Am I very superficial? I really want to know what others think, because if the consensus is that I am, I would like to change it. And if not, I would like to help him without nagging and further knocking his confidence.

Hmm. I don't think you are being too superficial - I DO think that you need to stop trying to change him. I understand that it comes from a nice motive, to want to improve things for him, but really, if he wants to improve things in this way then he will do it off his own back without encouragement from you.

It just sounds like you aren't particularly well suited in this area, sorry.

I could not be with someone who didn't wash or keep his clothes clean. I think it shows a lack of respect to the person they are with. I hate it when my dh doesn't smell 'nice'. I make an effort for him and expect him to do same for me.

You are not sperficial at all.

You're not superficial. But you're trying to change him and that's a fools errand. If you can't take him as he is then it's best to get out now. Does he actually have OCD? Has he had CBT to address this? It's entirely possible that not washing his clothes is one of his safety behaviours, in which case it's not as simple as simply askign him to change it, and you askign him to do so will casue a lot more grief and worry to him than you'll realise. I have an OCD diagnosis and it goes far beyond the stereotypical handwashing. He will have a whole host of behaviours that he may not even be conscious of.

No you are not superficial. You are normal.It's okay for him to criticise your tidy house but you cant mention his stinky jeans?

You are not being superficial by needing a modicum of respectability in his appearance-society demands it

If he wont change and you can't learnt to love his ropey tatty appearance (and I couldn't) you need to end it

BooBooGlass - yes he does. He's had extensive therapy and has managed to get down from 2 hours+ for the rituals to just 1 hour, which is a fantastic acheivement. And yes, it does seep into other areas and as you say, he has whole range of other behaviours and aversions (for want fo a better word) that are part of it. I mentioned the handwashing as it was relevent and the most "problematic" part of it.

I was ready to say you were superficial from reading the thread title alone, but having read all of your opening post I think your concerns are quite valid. I agree with BertieBotts however - you can't hope to change him, especially if your tentative tactful suggestions are met with defensiveness

i think wanting to change something in your partner like this at four months in should ring alarm bells to be honest.

it sounds like he does have issues and needs to address them but it's not your role to come in and rescue him.

you are not his mother. he needs to sort this stuff out for himself.

it doesn't sound as if you are shallow or superficial but i would question why you would want to be with someone who appears scruffy and smelly and who getting intimate with leaves you with dry, chapped skin.

either decide you love him the way he is or get out.

In which case I think he still has work to do on himself.
There's a workbook you can get via amazon about being in a relationship with someone with OCD, you might find it useful. Have you have a proper conversation about all of this? My OCD (which has no element of handwashing fwiw) was triggered by some massive trauma a few years ago. Has he dealt with whatever the catalyst was? Does he even know? I hate to say but I think it might be kinder on both of you to move on. He will find it incredibly distressing that his behaviours are impacting on you too

Hmm.. I know it's daft to set out to try and change a person, and I'm not crackers enough to want to do that. I just would like him to try to make some small steps, that he's comfortable with, and see how it feels - rather than dismissing my view / choices as "silly" and unworthy of discussion.

I don't want to throw the towel in over this - he's great. I want us to be together.

I personally would not be comfortable trying to change someone like this. His habits seem very entrenched and as he is not affected by the social conventions around appearance and personal care, I doubt very much he would be influenced by you or any single individual.

I would always class personality as my main attraction to a person, more so than looks. However, taking pride and care in themselves and dressing well and for the occasion is very attractive in my view.

I could not tolerate the behaviour described in your OP and would not take on a man as a doer-upper either. Assuming he's over 25 he is already who he is going to be.

It's not as simple as him dismissing his behaviours as silly though. His beaviours are a mechanism he uses to keep himself safe, no amount of logic will change his belief that they work. One of my rules was that I had to stay in every day until the post had arrived. Every day. Noone could have convinced me otherwise, I truly thought somehting absolutely terrible would happen if I went out before then. It's like being trapped in your own personal prison :( Is he still seeing someone? On medication? Because he's not coping, he really needs to be in regular CBT at the very least

By the way, I don't nag or "go on" about this... it's only a handful of times I've brought it up.

BooBoo - yes, we talk about it a lot. He doesn't know how it started. It seems to have been a pattern that started in adolesence and escalated over the years. He has said that he feels I'm very supportive and understanding around the OCD, and it is something I'd like to know more about, so any book recommendations would be very welcome

My ex had OCD and unfortunately you can't make them change, they have to want to change themselves. My ex had his OCD under control to a reasonable level where he could go about his everyday life without it being massively obvious (although underneath he was always worried about something). But after 6 months I had to say to him that I wanted the 'happy every after' which included us living together, so he had to decide if he was able to live with someone (knowing that I would not go along with his rituals). In the end he decided he wasn't able to do that and we split up. Consider what you want for your future would be my advice.

Yes, he's still seeing a counsellor - not sure whether it's quite right for himn, but it's early days with this one, so we'll see.

It was my choices he was dismissing as "silly", btw, not his own..

Aside from the obvious issues around hygiene and appearance, etc, the danger here is that you end up becoming his 'carer'. His condition becomes the centrepiece of your relationship and before you know it, everything revolves around him and his OCD, you're modifyin your behaviour and environment to accommodate it, etc.

If you guys had been together years and this had come on gradually I could understand wanting to stick it out and trying to help him. But this is a new relationship and already you 'talk about [his ODC] a lot'. It doesn't seem like the a good start for a relationship.

I really do think the kindest thing to do is back off. 4 months is a short time, but I know will still be hard. I've been with my dp for 4 months too and would find it upsetting to split, but tbh if we were having these issues I would see us as having little choice. Fwiw, I'm still in CBT as well, but for maintenence of recovery more than anything else. If I'd been where I was a year ago as far as the OCD is concerned, I wouldn't even entertain the idea of a relationship.

I know it doesn't feel like a massive change, but it's still a change at whatever level. Basically you would prefer it if he was exactly as he is now, with this one (or two or three small things adding up to one) thing slightly different. So you're not accepting him 100% for who he is. I think that no matter how gently you go about it it's going to cause resentment on some level.

This sounds trite but if you've met someone as great as him and he likes you, there's no reason to expect that you wouldn't find someone as nice, without these issues, in the future.

And I know that sounds awful and like I'm saying "Write him off because of his illness" - but it's not about that, it's just about whether you're a good match. Maybe he'd be better suited to someone who isn't bothered by the clothes issues etc.

If you were making small suggestions and he was saying "Oh, I'd never thought of that, thank you, I'll try it" and genuinely seemed happy with your input then I'd probably be more supportive, but from the way he's reacting it just sounds like you're fighting a losing battle.

with all this focus on OCD is there really time for much else in the relationship?

does part of you secretly quite like the fact he has this little problem that you can do lots of research on, talk about, mull over, work on together.

sorry if that sounds harsh but you really need to have a good think to yourself about why you want to find out all about OCD etc.

you run the risk of completely losing yourself in his problems and becoming a sort of codependent. are you sure this isn't actually slightly the appeal of this relationship?

Why do women try to 'fix' men? I don't think you are being superficial op.

But after four months, here is a guy with low self esteem, depression, dry, flaky skin, ocd, smelly, unattractive clothes and no desire to change, but every desire to see you lower your standards.

Why would you find that attractive?

Oh dear, OK:

SNM I do see your point, and given that I've posted here specifically about issues relating to his OCD I can see why you would have that suspiscion. However, the short answer is no. I want to accommodate his OCD because it's part of him. We have known each other for 8 years. We are very, very comfortable with each other, talk so easily, have shared tastes, interests and values (perhaps not around the hygiene issue, but certainly in other areas), have a shared sense of humour and laugh all the time. He and DD have always got on brilliantly and she likes him very much. He enhances me life, and i do his. So it's not all about the OCD, and we don't sit there wringing our hands and discussing and "working on it" - we have fun. But it's part of him and I need to take account of it and understand it. I think that's fair enough, and if I had a medical condition that had a significant impact on my everyday life, I would hope that he would make the effort to understand it too.

madonnawhore I have had my concerns about becoming his "carer", as you say, and the OCD dominating our relationship. But given that we are so good in other ways, and that other than over this issue, he does treat me with a huge amount of respect and is actually very caring and supportive of me, I don't think that's going to happen. And if it started to, I believe I would recognise it and be able to deal with it.

I really don't want to split up with him. I love being with him. He loves being with me and would be devastated if i finished it. Surely the best thing for me to do is accept that he's a scruffbag, but is brilliant in other ways, and just get on with it. That's what I want to do, at this point.

Hmm, but you aren't acceptign it are you? You'll always secretly be wantinghim to change. It's also worth nothnig that there's a very fine line between being supportive and being an enabler. Are you able to attend one of his counsellng sessions with him? If his counsellor would be willingto do that it might be helpful to both of you

okay that throws a slightly different light on things.

but i still think perhaps you should just find out a bit about OCD and then get on with your life as you would have done anyway. maybe get information so you can understand the condition but don't try to make it your problem as well as his and just live life as you would anyway.

make your point about the hygiene issue and then leave it up to him to do what he wants about it.

keep having a laugh together.

also remember that whilst OCD is a medical condition, it is a behavioural condition. it's not like sickle cell anaemia or something where the sufferer has no control over the illness or ability to help themselves.

SNM, Ido think that's a bit unfair actually. Have you ever had OCD? WHen you're in the thick of it, it's absolutely awful and it can be hard to see a way out. I think OP's heart is in the right place.
I guess I can see the other side of this, being the OCD sufferer myself in the relationship of a similar length. My dp doesn't know that part of my diagnosis, as I have chosen not to tell him, but he does know about my eating issues, as that's something that has come up (I went for a meal with his friends for his birthday and had to talk to him first in case I found it difficult to eat in front of people I didn't know). I think giving up on someone with a mental illness in the way you say, especially just because it's 'not like sickle cell' ffs is clearly the actions of someone who doesn't understand mental illness. My dp deosn't worry about this day to day, it's not somethinghe sees fit to 'tackle' with me. What he does do is offer the support whan I ask for it. But I'll reiterate, I would have been in no position to be in a relationship when I was at the stage the OP's partner is at. He clearly has a lot of work to do to get healthy

Thank you - to everyone who's posted.

BooBoo I hadn't thought about the "enabling" thing - where do you think that line is? Not sure about the counselling session, but may well discuss that with him at some point if it seems appropriate.

Oh, and good luck with your ongoing recovery and new relationship too

I don't think you are being shallow. I recently dated someone a few times who was very nice in many ways, but his clothes were really terrible - circa 1985 style, and original by the look of it. It was a dealbreaker for me because it actually says quite a lot about a person - the way that they present to the world - just like I wouldn't want to be with someone that was a complete fashion victim either..