Appearance, hygiene, self respect... am I being terribly shallow?

[TheMoistWorldOfSeptimusQuench]

I've been with my boyfriend about 4 months. He's lovely, and I'm really happy to be with him. But we seem to have hit a point of conflict, and I would love some opinions to help me unravel it all.

He has OCD - the real deal, obsessive handwashing etc - and spends an hour in the bathroom every morning, so bodily he is very clean and un-stinky.

However, his clothing is all from charity shops, very scruffy and mostly pretty unflattering. That isn't particularly a problem, but he only washes his clothes about once a fortnight (including the jeans that he wears every single day). So he often looks quite dirty.

He also has an aversion to haircuts and shaving (I have permanently chapped, dry skin on my chin from kissing him).

Because of all the washing, his skin is very dry and flakey, particularly on his hands and face. It's unpleasant for him, he hates it, and does slap on some moisturiser from time to time, but as he never exfoliates his skin (although he did buy a facial scrub after I suggested it), the dry skin never goes away.

As I said, a lot of this isn't a massive problem for me, but he is someone who has quite low self esteeem and a history of depression, and my feeling is that this is all linked together somehow. I wonder whether taking more pride in how he presents himself to the world might actually benefit his mental health.

Given his issues, I'm very careful about how I broach this, as on the handful of occasions I've suggested he wear something more flattering, or that he might want to wash his jeans more often, he takes it very badly. He feels that I'm too critical, and that caring about appearance is extremely shallow.

I take a reasonable (but not excessive) amount of care in my appearance. I'm also fairly tidy and keep my home reasonably clean (clean once a week, bare minimum really - the house isn't sterile and always feels quite lived in and comfortable). Doing so makes me feel relaxed and on top of things generally. Last night he was saying that I basically need to stop caring about such things, and that I'm just being a bit silly.

I am not hung up on appearance, I'm really not. But I do think we all make little, usually sub-concious, judgements on how people look, and I don't want him to be disadvantaged. I also - possibly misguidedly - think his self esteem might improve if he made a bit of an effort.
And yes - there is a little bit of me that would like him to make the effort for me.

So does he have a point? Am I very superficial? I really want to know what others think, because if the consensus is that I am, I would like to change it. And if not, I would like to help him without nagging and further knocking his confidence.

BooBooGlass - i really didn't mean it as an attack on people with OCD. it's interesting that you have taken it in that way.

what i suppose i meant is that from a healthy outside perspective it is possible to see that there is a way through for the sufferer and that they are capable of changing their behaviour - it's just that as you say they might not be able to see that for themselves yet. and also that even the most well meaning attempts to 'help' can actually serve to perpetuate the condition.

it's not a case of 'giving up' on someone with mental illness but rather seeing that it is not your job to manage their illness or try to cure them as your actions might actually have the opposite effect.

The difficulty with dating someone who has a MH issue is walking the fine line between accepting behaviour that they can't help and shouldn't be blamed for, and allowing them to get away with shitty behaviour by blaming it on their MH problems.
So while your DP may not be able to cope with changing his clothes, he presumably can shut the fuck up about your house.

Good point SGB

agree with sgb. accepting his ocd doesn't include him pushing his standards on to you

I know next to nothing about OCD, so am not speaking from any experience or expertise.

But....can you/he/anyone explain why a person would spend hours each day cleaning their body/hands, and then put on exceptionally dirty/smelly clothes?

If a person is obsessive about personal cleanliness, and washes themselves constantly, I can't fathom it....

Earlybird - I can't explain it but I know it happens. I knew someone who lived in filth but would spend ours in the bath every day and sterlise her crockery (while the fruit flies flew around the kitchen and rotting food). It's all to do with the orders/patterns/priorities people set in their head I think.

OP - it's bizarre though that he can tell you that you shouldn't care about such things when he has so much he clearly cares about. One might say that this is projection at work?

Why would you want to kiss someone when it roughs up your skin? Not superficial at all - and generally we don't as a society react well to people who are a bit scruffy and dirty, you are hardly asking him to dress like this year's top model.

By the way, not sure the exfoliator is a good idea! Especially as he might scrub away more and more with it if he imagines it might clear away his imaginary germs.

Are you sure he is seeing a counsellor? He should surely be a with a CBT therapist still, as said elsewhere one needs to attack the B as much as the C with OCD.

earlybird - I think it's less about the personal hygiene and more about having a ritual that the OCD sufferer has more control over, therefore making them feel secure and safe in some way. So it could just as easily be having a series of words that he has to say, or having things in his environment arranged in a specific way. I'm sure BooBoo would have more insight and be able to explain more eloquently than me.

Euro As far as I know, when he was seeing his CBT, they made such good progress on cutting down the time that he spends on his rituals and making itmore manageable, that that was considered (by him or both of them - I'm not sure) enough for now. I think he stopped seeing them sometime last year. The current counsellor was brought in after a difficult time he went through last year. Was meant to be "emergency" couselling, but it didn't happen until 8 months after the event!

And I want to kiss him, and don't stress about roughing up my skin, because - strange as it may sound - he's loving, lovely, and gorgeous, despite the superficials

Yep, there's no logic to safety behaviours, and they're not really linked to each other- the washing is totally seperate from the clothes he wears, which seems completely at odds but again there's no logic to it. I could list all of my behaviours but it would take a long time. Some of them, just to give you a picture, were wearing only certain knickers, always clean but I had about 4 or 5 pairs that I stuck to, I couldn't wear any of my other pairs. I wore a ring constantly and panicked if I couldn't find it. I would weigh myself about 6 or 7 times a day. I was afraid of opening my windows. I had to take a certain route to town from my house, and I wasn't 'allowed' to get the bus. I had to come home at 11 minutes past the hour or I would have to go back and get it right the next hour. All random, odd behaviour, but each it's own behaviour, all to do with the same aim of keeping me 'safe' but no behaviour linked to any other.
The provision is 20 sessions of CBT now whereas it used to be 5 iirc, so the help is there. It's true that he's definately made progress, the danger is that he is swapping old behaviours for new, so while not doing the same things, he's not actually getting better either.
I do considr myself recovered now, as recovered as I'll ever be. My therapy mainly focusses on my eating disorder now, and I've made good progress there too. All my posts make me look a bit mad, but actually, I went through a bad time in my life, and I'm now mostly better. It probably helps that my behaviours weren't allowed to go unchecked for the same amount of time- 3 or 4 years ago I was fine, it's only within the last 2 or 3 that I started to have trouble. If he's been living this way for so long it's going to be extremely difficult for him to give up his rituals.

I would want 4 months in, the wonderful honeymoon stage of the relationship! I agree with SNM, there is a tendancy to focus on your dp's needs and issues and you sound like you are in danger of becoming codependant!

On a personal note the deal breaker, ocd or not is that I could not cope with smelly 2 week unwashed jeans, I feel like gagging at the thought!

BooBoo - you don't sound mad, it just sounds really distressing and difficult. You've obviously come a long way.

I know he's not going to give up his rituals. I already decided that to be together, it was worth accomodating the rituals. That side of it is quite well managed and contained now so it's up to him to deal with when he decides he's ready.

The only time it's remotely annoyed or inconvenienced me was when I forgot my keys and locked myself out in the rain the other day, with two 8 year olds, and he wouldn't answer the door because he was in the bathroom and can't be interrupted. I ended up taking the girls to a cafe for cakes and making a treat out of it, so they weren't that bothered. But if I'd forgotten the keys and he wasn't there (as would be normal), I'd have been just as stuck anyway, so not a big deal.

Be very very careful OP. Especially if there are any signs of the form of OCD called Pure-O. If there are then you really need to trust your instincts and get out as soon as you can.

I would never ever involve my children with somebody who has OCD again. I'm really sorry for everyone who has it or has family members with it, as it's really not a mild mental illness. I've been there done that, and it turned out to be one of the worst experiences ever in my life, and my children got terribly hurt as well.

It is really a shame that you have involved your children anyway after only knowing this man for 4 months.

'also remember that whilst OCD is a medical condition, it is a behavioural condition. it's not like sickle cell anaemia or something where the sufferer has no control over the illness or ability to help themselves.'

This is true, and reflects what I was told by the psych workers of the person I mentioned in the post above.

Not all mental illnesses can be controlled, but OCD sufferers are always aware of what they are doing and are responsible for their actions.

Ah, you've known him for 8 years - disregard the last line of my first comment.

My friend was married to someone with OCD; note the word was. It almost broke her mentally; his rituals were also used as a means of controlling her actions. OCD is all encompassing to both the sufferer and any family members.

Whilst you seem happy with the situation at present I would tread very carefully here because he could break you as well.

He may never be ready to give up his rituals and accommodating them as you are doing (you are modifying your behaviour) will not help him in the long run.

I feel for your two 8 year old girls actually; what are they learning about relationships here from the two of you?. What made you decide to embark on a relationship with this man and what are you getting out of this relationship?. I think you do want to rescue and or save him here and you are becoming his codependent as a result.

I only have one DD - the other child referred to was her friend. She has known my P as a friend all her life, and he has always taken an interest in and played with her. As far as she's concerned, its nice that he's around more often now as she has someone else to lark around with.
I know people are trying to help, and I have read all replies very carefully, but I don't really understand where the "co-dependency" thing has come from. It seems a big jump from wanting to understand my partners condition, (which as I've said, doesn't dominate our relationship - its based on simply getting on brilliantly, having a laugh, and fancying the pants of each other) to becoming "co-dependant".

I think it's great that you want to understand his condition and support his recovery, just don't allow his condition to encroach on your own behaviours and environment.

As SGB said, he can manage his OCD, but when he starts telling you how to clean your house then he's overstepping a line.

Oh, and he's not here a lot - DD tends to see him for about a couple of hours once a week when he comes round for dinner.

How can you take seriously a guy who obsessively washes his skin until it flakes off, wears dirty clothes and yet tells you to stop being silly when you clean your house once a week and care about your appearance? I mean, how?

I know, perfumedlife.
But there's a lot more to him than that. He has many really great qualities, and makes me feel happy. But that's hard to get across in a thread which is primarily about my frustration with just one difficult aspect of our relationship!

Did you fancy him the whole eight years you were friends?

If it's not putting you off him, physically, then I guess you should go ahead, see where it leads. I just would worry that (were it me, knowing me the way I do), I would end up loving him and then what if he started to disgust me, and it would all be a mess.

Are you ever embarrassed to introduce him to people or take him somewhere smartish?

Personally, I cannot imagine being OK with being locked out of the house (in the rain), while my dp was inside and unable to help because he couldn't interrupt washing himself.

Maybe you're willing to understand now when the relationship is fairly new and you're 'loved up', but do you really think you'll be so understanding 5 years from now when you see clearly just how much this affliction interferes with your life?

pl - there was always a frisson of something, but we only started spending a lot of time together about a year ago, and that's when it became glaringly apparent that we fitted together so well.
I do occasionally wonder what others will think about his appearance (eg. My parents!), but I shouldn't because he has a lovely personality that shines through and wins people over straight away. He's very popular and well liked.
earlybird - I have no idea how I'll feel in 5 years time, or whether we'll still be together, but if something was making me feel that unhappy and compromised, i'd end it.

I agree Earlybird, all the issues of the smelly dreadfull clothes and the not having enough care for you and a your child that their needs that they know are irrational and lets face it with ocd, he can start the process again and break off and answer the door, would really be deal breakers for me! It is like his ocd is more important than anything else. I understand that the OCD rituals have to be done in order and a certain number of times, what does it matter if he breaks off part way through, he will have to start the process again, he is nice and dry and warm, you and your child are locked out of your own home cold and wet! All seems very wrong to me! I liken the ocd to someone with mobility issues, If I was in someone's home and they locked themselves out, it would be difficult for a limited mobility person to answer the door, the thing is that person in anothers home would have empathy for the other person the homeowner and would make the effort to move to let the other person in, it is common decency, with mobility issues I can say it would annoy you and be painfull, you just would not think twice about doing it for them though! I would expect the same from an ocd person spending time in my home!

Mummiehunnie, you clearly don't understand OCD at all

And an 'OCD person'? Nice