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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

*V.LONG* How do I make him understand I need ACTIONS not just the WORD sorry?!

58 replies

Candysgirl · 19/02/2011 13:13

I'm28, my boyfriends 35,and im 39 wks pregnant today. Things haven't been easy for us, we've only been together 18 months and the baby wasn't planned, but we're both happy about the prospect. On one hand BF is great. He's a sweet, genuine, kindhearted "good" man. He doesn't have a bad bone in his body, he loves me and our baby more than anything, and he tells me all the time. He's come to the baby classes I've asked him to attend, and really tried to take stuff in.(he even managed the baby show!)
However, he has bipolar disorder, and a year ago he attempted suicide. This condition has never been an issue for me in isolation. It's something we have to simply factor in to every day life, he is going to have black days, and he's going to find somethings hard. I've always accepted it, never punished him for it, and always tried to help him.
Thing is, because of the BP, he doesn't experience "guilt" or "empathy"
He's trying his best to be supportive through this pregnancy, we live on his (slightly ramshackle) narrowboat together, and as I am/was a student, live on his wage and my savings. We can manage currently, but we need to move, and therefore should be saving funds and looking for a new job for him etc (we have to relocate out of the city-too expensive)
Problem is, there are a few things I have asked of him since I got pregnant, I've had to give up my studies, alcohol, all my favourite foods, my mobility and independence etc, and have done it willingly, all I asked him to do is give up smoking, cut down on the beer, come home from work so I'm not stuck here alone from 7am to 9pm gone every day, and make an effort to find a new job/move things forward for when the baby is born.
He's knows he NEEDS to do these things, but he hasn't/can't. He still smokes (although only outside and if we're walking together he'll keep it away from me, and apologise if I cough) he still drinks too much. (I don't mind a couple of pints, it's ale and generally between 3.5 and 5% vol, but he generally has an average of 5 pints A NIGHT. Most nights IE: 6 out of 7. )
He CANNOT come straight home from work...he finishes at around 6, but never getshome before 8.45 (it is a 50 min commute..) but he HAS to go into the bar where he works for "one" (2-3 in reality) before he leaves, and then if there's time before his train (10 mins) he'll have another one at the station. I've BEGGED him to come straight home sometimes, even made him promise, and he still goes for "one" and turns up an hour late.
Thing is, he knows he's done/doing wrong...he won't txt me to say he's going to be late, I have to chase him up, and when he does get home, he hangs his head and says "sorry" and "I know I'm a rubbish person" but nothing CHANGES.
this is where I need the advice.
Nothing changes, because although he says sorry, he doesn't experience GUILT. Because of the Bp, he doesn't have that capacity, whatsmaking him "feel bad" is an internalized "I'm doing things that upset her, that makes me a bad person" so he just punishes himself rather than being moved to change.
I don't know how to deal with this, and when he gets upset I always comfort him instead of getting angrier, (partly because I know he doesn't mean to do things to upset me, and partly because I'm frightened he might lose it again and go jump in the canal)
OK, some things I can tolerate, I'm hoping he'll stop smoking finally when the baby is born, or at least I know I can police him being around the baby when he's been out for one... The drinking is a bit more frustrating. I don't think he's an alcoholic, I think it's just habit, and he's rarely off his face, and never gets angry or abusive (sometimes a little maudlin) it just COSTS so much.(as do the fags) the not coming home bothers me most because I need to know I can rely on him,and he's not helping that right now.
Also, the straw that broke the camels back today?
I asked him MONTHS ago to make sure he had booked my due date off work, because although first babies are generally late, I didn't want to spend the day fretting/waiting alone. He promised me he had, now with a week to go he isn't sure, and can't remember us talking about him taking the day off. So he has to work coz there's no cover for Saturdays.
I know it seems all trivial, but with housing and financial issues being v.bad right now (don't get me started) it's all a bit much and I'm wondering if I've walked into a situation with a guy who will love his baby but forever be a liability?! How do I get him to see he needs to "man up" and DO something rather than just keep apologising, without pushing him so far into his own self-hatred again at being a "bad father/boyfriend" he tries to kill himself again???

OP posts:
EricNorthmansMistress · 19/02/2011 13:31

it's all a bit much and I'm wondering if I've walked into a situation with a guy who will love his baby but forever be a liability?!

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was going to say. I'm sorry to say that he won't change and things will only get many times harder once the baby arrives and becomes a toddler. What kind of parent do you think he will be? I don't just mean will he change nappies etc, but how will he actually parent a thinking, challenging, learning little person who needs consistency and guidance?

I know it's far more easily said than done but I'd be planning to parent this child alone if I were you, and take anything he provides as a bonus, rather than relying on it.

thumbwitch · 19/02/2011 13:39

I'd say you have a problem purely with the alcohol, never mind everything else. That level of intake, and breaking promises, not doing stuff he should, taking no responsibility, refusing to change (never mind the BP disorder) - screams get out now.

Do you have family close by? Friends? Anyone else who can help you? because your BF isn't going to.

If you go into labour on this boat, who is going to get you to hospital? You're going to have to call an ambulance because he will be too pissed to drive. YOu might as well decide now that you are going to have to go through the labour alone, because chances are, that will be the case.

He might love you, he might love his unborn baby - but he loves alcohol MORE. His devotion to alcohol outclasses his devotion to you by a factor of many - he's proved this already.

You will never be able to safely leave the baby in his sole charge - and if you are going to have to look after the baby 24h a day, 7 days a week anyway you might as well do it without the added risk factor of this damaged person you have hooked up with.

I should apologise for being harsh - but I can't, because there is a brand new baby on the way and you have to face up to the reality of who you are living with, for your baby's sake (and yours of course).

CheerfulMe · 19/02/2011 13:47

I agree with what's already been posted, and I'm watching this thread with great interest and sadness, because I'm with someone who has a similar mindset about guilt and actions vs words. It's very frustrating and you have my complete sympathy.

I'm not pregnant though - I think if I was... well, I'd be taking a tougher line on my fella, and I think you need to listen to the harsh but wise words above.

SuchProspects · 19/02/2011 13:49

Candysgirl - Where do you get the idea that he doesn't experience guilt or empathy because of his bipolar disorder?

thumbwitch · 19/02/2011 13:52

I was going to ask that as well, SuchProspects, but don't have any direct experience of BP disorder, so was hoping someone who does would ask it for me.

snowmama · 19/02/2011 13:56

My best friend has BP..she is hugely caring, apathetic and a great mother.. all the other issues are the problem, particularly the alcohol.

snowmama · 19/02/2011 13:57

Sorry empathetic not apathetic....sorry predictive text!

Snorbs · 19/02/2011 14:00

That's, what, 60-70 units of alcohol a week that he's admitting to? In the two hours between him leaving work and him getting on the train I'd be stunned if he's only drinking two or three pints, particularly if he can knock back another pint in a mere 10 minutes at the station. That's a lot of booze. One thing to consider with that level of alcohol consumption is that the effects are cumulative. He's probably not sobering up completely before he starts drinking again.

Whether his empathy etc issues are to do with bi-polar or alcohol abuse is difficult to ascertain. What is blindingly obvious, however, is that you are walking on eggshells because you're (understandably) terrified that he will attempt suicide again. But that means that you are unable to both rely on him and to tell him how you really feel. In essence, you're carrying him in this relationship at a time when you're about to give birth and really you need someone to carry you.

Are you strong enough to be able to look after yourself, your new baby, and to carry your partner like this?

One final question and I hope you can forgive me asking this. His suicide attempt - were you together then? How serious was it?

atswimtwolengths · 19/02/2011 14:34

I hate to sound like I'm not on your side - I really am - but why did you get pregnant just a couple of months after he attempted suicide?

I've never heard of BP and lack of empathy - are you sure the two are connected?

He will just have to phone in sick if you go into labour when he's meant to be at work. What will be the repercussions of that?

HansieMom · 19/02/2011 14:34

I question whether he should be drinking at all while taking meds for bipolar.

Wouldn't you like to get off that boat? Could you get a one bedroom apartment for yourself and baby as you would get financial help as a single parent?

PeterAndreForPM · 19/02/2011 14:36

OP, I think you have answered some of your own questions

This is not a responsible man

This is not someone you can rely on, for all the reasons youhave listed

BPD is not directly atribitable to all these unpleasant character traits he is displaying...he is using that as an excuse I am afraid

I fear if you stay with this man, you will be in a very vulnerable and fragile place when the baby comes

once that baby is here you just will not have the emotional energy and time to continue carrying such a selfish man

I can't imagine bringing up a baby on a ramshackle boa, sitting waiing for a drunk and self-enitled man to come home and grace us with his presence...that sounds grim beyond belief

My advice to you, is end the relationship

move back home to parents/relatives before the baby comes

if he wants to be a proper part of his child's life, let him prove it from a distance

PeterAndreForPM · 19/02/2011 14:36

poor spelling, sorry

KnottyLocks · 19/02/2011 14:40

Peter Andre speaks sense.

(Words I never thought I'd type.)

atswimtwolengths · 19/02/2011 14:45

He has problems with alcohol, whether he's an actual alcoholic or not.

I, too, doubt he should be drinking on his medication. Have you researched this?

I hope I don't sound offensive to anyone with BP, but I think you've moved very quickly in this relationship, without seeing how his illness will impact on you.

Can you rely on your parents to help you? Would it be possible to go there once you've had the baby? Your partner doesn't sound responsible and though the boat may have its charm, I doubt whether you'll feel the same way once you have a baby there.

I think you're going to be left alone the whole time and your money will be spent on cigarettes and alcohol. Is that what you want?

HansieMom · 19/02/2011 15:02

Yes, moving in with parents would be better than your own place as you could just go! You would have a bed, washing machine, full refrigerator, space, a real bathroom!

About that smoking--he shouldn't smoke around the baby at all. A smoker's clothes reek of it.

You need to look out for yourself and baby right now.

slimbo · 19/02/2011 15:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Candysgirl · 19/02/2011 17:01

Wow.ok, wasn't expecting quite such vehement reactions.

We r actually taking baby straight to my mums place,(200 miles west) as it has better plumbing etc. We're both going there until his paternity leave (2 weeks) runs out and he has to come back to work.

He's not as bad as u guys think. Maybe I didn't phrase it right, I'm sure he'll be a great dad, it's just these few little things, he's not an alcoholic, he's not drunk all the time, it's just he's built up a habit of drinking that much over a number of years.

We were together before his attempt and baby wasn't planned, but we r (apart from my current whinges) very good together.

He's a very sensitive lovely bloke and I love him loads, I don't want to leave him. I just need to make him see he needs to make changes, not just beat himself up about the problems.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 19/02/2011 17:13

"I just need to make him see he needs to make changes"

The short answer to that is you cannot and more to the point he won't.

You say you don't want to leave him - guess as well you don't want to admit to yourself you made a huge mistake here when you embarked upon a relationship with this man.

More importantly though, whatever possessed you to get involved with someone like this in the first place?. Do you feel that you should rescue and or save him from himself?.

NettleTea · 19/02/2011 17:33

The trouble is, the 'few little things' are not that little when you are responsible for a baby.
I doubt he WOULD be drunk on that amount if he was an alcoholic - alcholism is to do with the NEED to drink (which that quantity daily suggests - he seems unable to break the pattern) and whether it has an impact upon himself or others he is involved with. It has quite an impact upon your relationship - his need to drink is depriving your family (and at 39 weeks I am guessing you ARE a family) of money, and it is depriving you of a partner, as he is hardly spending time with you.
If he cant come home now, when you are pregnant and could give birth at any time (my first was 2 weeks early) how likely for him to come home when there is a baby doing its daily scream from 5-9pm (sadly it can happen - DS was a 'cant put him down' screamer)
Is he under a doctor for the BP. I must admit that that is not true about no empathy or guilt. My SIL is bipolar and if anything she has an OVER abundance of both these atributes - often worrying about other people and how they feel can send her into a depressive state. Have you experienced the mania? TBH the 'down' is far more dealable with than the mania.
Has he provided all the things you need for the baby - I know you say you are going to your mum's - how are you getting the 200 miles - has he got all the stuff at her place already.
I think beating himself up about the problems is self indulgant, more depressive or BPD than BP, and a way of making it about him rather than him facing his responsibility. Is he seeing a therapist? did he have councilling after the suicide attempt?

oopslateagain · 19/02/2011 17:41

I have no experience of BP, so I can't comment on that. What I will say is, beer is expensive. Even the cheap-as-chips beer you can get in some pubs is over £2 a pint. So he's spending at least £10 a night, probably nearer £15-20. Which is between £70 and £140 that he could be putting away for a better house and a better life for you both.

Sorry to say it, but to him, the beer is more important to him than you and the baby.

What you have to decide is, what is more important to you - him, or the better lifestyle you would obviously love to have?

Being a single parent isn't easy, but exactly what sort of life are you going to have with him if he doesn't change?

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, and I'm sure it's not what you want to hear.

Candysgirl · 19/02/2011 17:46

"more importantly though, whatever possessed you to get involved with someone like this in the first place?. Do you feel that you should rescue and or save him from himself?."

Just because he's BP or depressive doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to have relationships, nor does it make me a martyr.. It's like saying u should date a man with one arm because he can't give good hugs!

He's been working most days while I've been off, so I've been out buying most of the baby stuff simply because I've had the time. So we're pretty set.

OP posts:
PeterAndreForPM · 19/02/2011 17:48

I just need to make him see he needs to make changes

you can't

he has to want to, for himself

"beating himself up" implies he rather enjoys the victim status

at your expense, I might add

Candysgirl · 19/02/2011 18:19

Yeah peterandre I've broached that one with him before...I think there is a bit of that, but how to get him out of it.

I know in my heart he knows he needs to change a bit, and wants to do what's best for his family, he just can't find the willpower yet to do it.

I guess all I can do is wait and hope he finds it in himself once he meets his son.

I trust him not to let us down in any major sense, I just wanted to help him help himself,

But thanks for the advice, if nothing else you've made me realise I'm still willing to fight his corner, so I can't hate him that much, in fact I've never hated him.

We'll make it work one way or another. I'm not giving up yet. We've been through too much already.

OP posts:
SuchProspects · 19/02/2011 18:30

Candysgirl - If you haven't exaggerated the amount and frequency of his drinking you shouldn't be so sure that he isn't alcoholic. You have described someone who drinks way as much in a night as is recommended in a week. And someone who cannot come home without going to the pub despite promising you he would. That sounds very much like someone who needs to drink. Certainly he's putting his need for drink before your happiness.

He's also lied to you. You said he promised that he had taken your due date off work. Now it's nearly time "he isn't so sure". What's happened is he didn't do it and he lied to you about having done it. Now he's trying to fudge around that.

Bipolar disorder can be horrible for those that have it. And having it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a relationship. But it sounds like he is hiding other serious personality flaws behind his illness. In the end you still need a stable home life for yourself and your child. And this guy is doing nothing to make that a reality - whatever the reason.

PeterAndreForPM · 19/02/2011 18:31

willpower ?

it doesn't require willpower

it requires accepting you are acig wrongly and aking responsibilty for it

if you continue to carry him in theis way, that will never happen

men like this need a short, sharp shock

oh, but you can't do that, can you

in cas he attempts suicide again

rock and a hard place

OP...I feel really sorry for you, and the baby

I expect this will get worse, and you will be more trapped han ever once baby comes along Sad

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