*V.LONG* How do I make him understand I need ACTIONS not just the WORD sorry?!

[Candysgirl]

I'm28, my boyfriends 35,and im 39 wks pregnant today. Things haven't been easy for us, we've only been together 18 months and the baby wasn't planned, but we're both happy about the prospect. On one hand BF is great. He's a sweet, genuine, kindhearted "good" man. He doesn't have a bad bone in his body, he loves me and our baby more than anything, and he tells me all the time. He's come to the baby classes I've asked him to attend, and really tried to take stuff in.(he even managed the baby show!)
However, he has bipolar disorder, and a year ago he attempted suicide. This condition has never been an issue for me in isolation. It's something we have to simply factor in to every day life, he is going to have black days, and he's going to find somethings hard. I've always accepted it, never punished him for it, and always tried to help him.
Thing is, because of the BP, he doesn't experience "guilt" or "empathy"
He's trying his best to be supportive through this pregnancy, we live on his (slightly ramshackle) narrowboat together, and as I am/was a student, live on his wage and my savings. We can manage currently, but we need to move, and therefore should be saving funds and looking for a new job for him etc (we have to relocate out of the city-too expensive)
Problem is, there are a few things I have asked of him since I got pregnant, I've had to give up my studies, alcohol, all my favourite foods, my mobility and independence etc, and have done it willingly, all I asked him to do is give up smoking, cut down on the beer, come home from work so I'm not stuck here alone from 7am to 9pm gone every day, and make an effort to find a new job/move things forward for when the baby is born.
He's knows he NEEDS to do these things, but he hasn't/can't. He still smokes (although only outside and if we're walking together he'll keep it away from me, and apologise if I cough) he still drinks too much. (I don't mind a couple of pints, it's ale and generally between 3.5 and 5% vol, but he generally has an average of 5 pints A NIGHT. Most nights IE: 6 out of 7. )
He CANNOT come straight home from work...he finishes at around 6, but never getshome before 8.45 (it is a 50 min commute..) but he HAS to go into the bar where he works for "one" (2-3 in reality) before he leaves, and then if there's time before his train (10 mins) he'll have another one at the station. I've BEGGED him to come straight home sometimes, even made him promise, and he still goes for "one" and turns up an hour late.
Thing is, he knows he's done/doing wrong...he won't txt me to say he's going to be late, I have to chase him up, and when he does get home, he hangs his head and says "sorry" and "I know I'm a rubbish person" but nothing CHANGES.
this is where I need the advice.
Nothing changes, because although he says sorry, he doesn't experience GUILT. Because of the Bp, he doesn't have that capacity, whatsmaking him "feel bad" is an internalized "I'm doing things that upset her, that makes me a bad person" so he just punishes himself rather than being moved to change.
I don't know how to deal with this, and when he gets upset I always comfort him instead of getting angrier, (partly because I know he doesn't mean to do things to upset me, and partly because I'm frightened he might lose it again and go jump in the canal)
OK, some things I can tolerate, I'm hoping he'll stop smoking finally when the baby is born, or at least I know I can police him being around the baby when he's been out for one... The drinking is a bit more frustrating. I don't think he's an alcoholic, I think it's just habit, and he's rarely off his face, and never gets angry or abusive (sometimes a little maudlin) it just COSTS so much.(as do the fags) the not coming home bothers me most because I need to know I can rely on him,and he's not helping that right now.
Also, the straw that broke the camels back today?
I asked him MONTHS ago to make sure he had booked my due date off work, because although first babies are generally late, I didn't want to spend the day fretting/waiting alone. He promised me he had, now with a week to go he isn't sure, and can't remember us talking about him taking the day off. So he has to work coz there's no cover for Saturdays.
I know it seems all trivial, but with housing and financial issues being v.bad right now (don't get me started) it's all a bit much and I'm wondering if I've walked into a situation with a guy who will love his baby but forever be a liability?! How do I get him to see he needs to "man up" and DO something rather than just keep apologising, without pushing him so far into his own self-hatred again at being a "bad father/boyfriend" he tries to kill himself again???

acting

taking

sorry, my keyboard is fecked

BP disorder does not cause people to lack empathy or feelings of guilt. Did you get that idea from him?

Candy, being in a relationship with somebody who has serious mental health problems can be extremely hard work. Even if the sufferer is the nicest, kindest person in the world the times when things are bad can put an enormous strain on a relationship. Having a mental illness can be a reason why somebody acts in an unreasonable or irrational way but it should never be an excuse. You don't have to put up with being treated badly just because he has this disorder.

Hi Candysgirl,

Really, sorry that you are having a difficult time and I understand that you really love your dp but people are responding with vehement reactions because they are worried for you. Your op doesn't sound trivial at all - it sounds like a really heavy situation.

Everyone on here knows how tough raising a baby is (even when financial/housing situation OK and dp supportive). If you are upset with your dp now about not getting home on time, think how much worse it will be later on when you haven't slept for nights on end. You will need all your reserves to look after the baby, you won't have the energy to suport your partner too. YOu deserve all the support you can get and it's great that your parents will be there for you.

If it's just the two of you in a relationship then you are both individuals - free to make your own decisions. Once a child comes in to the picture, it's a whole different ballgame. The baby deserves stability and a mum who isn't stressed out.

Of course your dps mental illness doesn't mean he shouldn't have a relationship - and as the adults involved - you are each individually free to decide on where your tolerance levels/boundaries lie (alcohol abuse would be a deal-breaker for me). Once you have a baby though, it will need you to be its "advocate" and so its perhaps best to start clearly setting out your boundaries now. It's your dps decision (as an adult - mentally ill or not) whether he will get the help he needs to get himself back on track.

Having said all that, I'm posting here because I have had experience of threatened and actual suicide in my close family (two members) and hard though this sounds; you are within your rights to set boundaries about this too. (In fact, it is what we were advised to do by mental health professionals ie reassure the person you love them, help them to help themselves in every way possible, but also set your boundaries very clearly about when and how you will engage with him over this issue.) I'm not suggesting your dp is holding this threat over you btw - but you seem to be worried that you can't push him too hard because of it. That needs to be addressed.

Wishing you all the best of luck x

sillchuckingit

really nice and supportive post

Whether he's an 'alcoholic' or not is a matter of word definitions. The fact that he knows his drinking is causing his pregnant partner significant problems and damaging his relationship, but nevertheless continues to drink in exactly the same way, says very clearly that he has an alcohol problem.

I would also reiterate the previous questions about large amounts of alcohol - indeed, any alcohol - used in combination with medication for his bi-polar disorder. Is he not taking anything other than booze? Or is he mixing his gallons of beer with medication? Does his doctor know?

He's only going to change if he wants to. I don't think he does. He puts beer and fags first, ahead of you. What makes you think he's going to change in the next few weeks?

Stay at your mum's.

"more importantly though, whatever possessed you to get involved with someone like this in the first place?. Do you feel that you should rescue and or save him from himself?."

You chose not to answer either question posed but instead wrote something in reply which was completely beside the point not just to say irrelevant to your immediate problem.

It is right that you cannot help who you fall in love with but this man has a mile of issues that no-one, least of all you as his partner, is at all qualified to help him with. I do not mean this unkindly but you are the last person who can help him. Quite apart from anything else he has to want to help his own self and using alcohol is not going to help anyone.

You write that both of you have been through an awful lot already. Well its not over yet and you and by turn your child I fear are in for more of a rough ride. Love should not be such hard work honestly.

I don't think you actually want to admit to yourself that you've made a huge error of judgment here. You still think he can change, you want your unborn child to be the impetus to change. It won't likely happen.

What PeterAndreForPM said (about willpower and it being no different when baby arrives). Listen to her - I have been there!

Although losts of posters are advocating that you go it alone, I don't think anything like that is in your mind is it OP?

And you might well find that your DP is more motivated to make some changes to his life once the baby arrives.

However, you cannot force this to happen it will have to be his decision for it to happen and for you to have faith that the changes will be lasting.

So, although you can and have, by the sound of it, make it clear what you want to change, at the end of the day it's up to him.

What I think you should be doing is formulating a plan B for life at a distance from him if you feel that these changes have not happened, say in 6-12 months.

I'd also suggest that you read up more on bipolar. IME (close family member) bipolar can mean that feelings are more distanced and perhaps he does need things spelling out more, but that certainly doesn't mean he can behave life a selfish tosspot! It doesn't result in a brain bypass - ie he should still be able to see that you need him near as much as possible at the moment, not spending loads on drink, and need a decent place to live.

Good luck OP

Thanx pickgo. Someone not out for blood, but instead sensible calm advice like I was after.

It shocked me to see the earlier posts, (and has pretty much decimated my evening with doubts and fears etc) but now I feel much more settled again. I knew it wasn't the end of the world and simply needed to find another method of communicating with him. Well, I showed him this thread. It's certainly had an impact. On both of us.

Good night ladies, I don't think I'll be coming back.

Seems to me that Pickgo merely said what you wanted to hear OP, and that's your idea of 'sensible calm advice like you were after.'

So basically, you just wanted people to tell you what you wanted to hear, not what they can really see.

Good luck OP.

Nobody is out for blood :( I think some of us are women who ignored similar warnings signs and have learnt the hard way. Still, I can see why you are hanging on and staying hopeful. I hope it works out for you OP, I really do.

I believe you wanted confirmation from someone on here that there is hope, that if you just stick with your DP for a little longer, he will realise that he is wrong, of his own accord. He will look into the eyes of his newborn child and it will be a turning point.

Maybe if you read up on BP, if you have a little more faith in him to become more responsible, support him a little longer, then he will change, he will see, with the loving support of his partner and newborn child, he will realise how important it is to be there for you and your child.

Remove BP from the equation, it is not the reason he is behaving like a selfish, immature twat

sorry ..I know thats not what you want to hear..but you are heavily pregnant, technically at term yet your partner goes off for a "swift half" after work?..in stead of coming home..well that doesnt bode well for the future when there is a demanding new born on the scene.

Hes not likely to have a personality transplant..just because hes a dad..he may well temporarily change during the baby moon phase but Im pretty sure will revert back to being a twonk and clearing off to the pub after work.

If you love him, fine, stay with him, but hes unlikely to change and you will more or less be a single parent..

I am sorry I wasted my time replying to your thread, if all you wanted to hear was "everything will be ok"

why didn't you just say that ?

you could have just written off th "The Sun" for that

Ive just re read your OP and see that is 35

he is never gonna change

i know that i am going a bit against the grain here, but don't you think that you are asking too much of him? stop smoking, cut down on drinking, come home early - sorry, i don't think that these are small things at all, rather these are major life issues.
he is obviously aware that his bp puts pressure on you - and always will, and his behaviour is probably a way of trying to forget that.
i also will say that these habits didn't develop overnight and so they can't go away overnight.
i think that you also need to to take into account that is man is 35, fully his own man now and not maliable anymore - not by you or by any woman.

i was also 28 and my dh 35 when i fell pregnant with dd and i went through years of hell because he was his own man. you need to calm down and take that pressure off him, he will automatically recognise when he sees his child what he needs to do - it s a very sobering moment for a man to hold his child. i wish that i could have given my younger self this advice!

what is your advice then, smoky ?

that OP should also go through years of hell ?

that is funny "advice"

The thing is, we all know someone with a DP who is a nob like this. And they very rarely suddenly having been a nob throughout pregnancy, turn from being a nob. The OP is just going to have a baby and a nob to look after, and with a baby around there will be an infinite number more things for him to be nobbish over.

I thought the thing with bipolar is that sufferers have episodes where they lose control and do and say all sorts of self-destructive things, followed by a massive come-down where they swing the other way and hate themselves for what they did, hopefully returning to balance with time and medication - is that a fair summary? I am far from an expert on the subject as you can probably tell, but from the little I've read and postings on here from people with bipolar disorder themselves or partners with it, it seems that the guilt and empathy take a holiday during episodes but are very much present in between times. (I'm also struggling to reconcile the statement that he doesn't do empathy or guilt with the one that he is sensitive. Sensitive to what/whom, exactly?)

This guy, on the other hand, seems to be stuck in the episode phase all the time - sort of mono-polar you might say! I do wonder what his doctor has to say about his current lifestyle choices as they seriously cannot be helping his condition.

As for "he will automatically recognise when he sees his child what he needs to do"... I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you (except to avoid breathing in the fumes).

ps Pickgo's advice was perfectly good, as long as you take note of all of it, including the one about having a Plan B with a fixed time limit for improvement, and about the difference between a man with mental problems and a selfish tosspot. But I think you were just picking and choosing the happy bits.

"i went through years of hell because he was his own man."

:o

Classic!

Relationships is full of threads from miserable women going through hell because they are with someone who "is his own man"

OP I don't know if you'll read this. I wish you all the best with the baby, and I know that this is a really sensitive time for every new Mum.

Now may not be the right time to confront your relationship issues as you really need to concentrate on yourself and the baby, but the reality is that your OH is not a good partner and it's very unlikely that he will be anything other than a poor father.

He has a significant alcohol problem, and he is unwilling to address it. Is that what you want or think you deserve? Babies cost money; nappies, food, clothes. I don't see you moving off the ramshackle narrow boat for quite some time (or ever).

It is possible that the birth of a child will give him the shock he needs to make changes, but please don't hold out for that. Most of us know that the birth of a baby (no matter how longed for or planned) causes stress and difficulty in most relationships and often cracks open the ones that are fragile.

I am very interested that you say he deserves love - and that his mental illness shouldn't preclude him from that. I wonder why you say that. Only children get unconditional love from their parents - the rest of us have to work on it. Give respect, care, kindness and love to get it back. I wonder why you accept so little. Don't you deserve love too?

honey if he drink 5 pints a night. he has a problem with alcohol.

if alcohol comes before you, he has a problem with alcohol.

you have given up everything. silly silly girl. you will be back here on mumsnet, and it is a great place fro support and advice.

but your life shouldn't depend on his.

you should have a seperate life to his and be able to compliment each other.

your happiness should not depend on him alone.

its lonely when you have your baby, babies don't make things right, in fact they make things a million times harder.

and after two years of trying to build a relationship with someone who has a mental disability and who is also an alcoholic, i will put money on you coming to your senses, regretting you gave up your future for this man