Is this normal? Row with parents/family.

[NinkyNonker]

I ask because dh is shocked but to me it seems normal.

A week or so ago my sister came to stay, we get on ok but dh isn't her greatest fan. Our parents treat us very differently and she is often very rude to me and I just take it as would be to blame if I didn't.

Anyway, she lied about something and he called her on it. Very calmly (he is very laid back) and tried to talk to her about it. I was upstairs putting.g baby to bed. She flipped and stormed off. I tried to talk to her, she tells me it'll take a long time to get over, I didn't point out that she has been far ruder to me in the past.

As expected, my father phones me the next day to let me know what he thinks of me. (I'm 30, SIS is 27, dh is 37.) Apparently my sister is the good one, I've always been trouble, have to sell the flat he helped me buy 5 yrs ago so he can give it to sis instead as she never expects help, I'm ungrateful etc etc. Dh is deceitful, he had hoped he would have learned some manners, he's always had doubts about him etc.

For once I stand up for myself and tell father that he must be living in cloud cuckoo land if he truly thinks that of me and my sister, he has it all backwards. Tell him I won't have him speak about my lovely husband like that. This isn't popular, he goes on to tell me I have lots of undesirable personality traits that the family have had to 'come to terms with'. All because my adult husband and my adult sister had a falling out. The conversation ended on a polite note. I email that eve regarding arrangements to sell flat.

The next day a hideous email appears from father going back over the nasty stuff he said before. Shocked, I reply again stating my position. Pointing out we were adults and didn't need him trying play patriarch. (Worded better!) Pointed out I had offered to sell flat numerous times and they always said no so to now tell me I was selfish to have it when sis doesn't have one (she has been a student for over 8 yrs to put off finding a job and is only in country a few months a yr.)

Later on, he phones me, nice as pie. Mother tells me this is his version of an apology, I know this as he has always been like this, worse in fact. But I am cross, dh is furious. I tell them a real apology is due, to both of us, and that whether or not someone gets on with my sister is not the measure of their personality. It is implied that we are being precious to be angry. A grudging apology ensues. Peace reigns. As per usual I now have to tiptoe around playing the jolly one to keep everyone happy, but deep down think this can't be right.

So, my question is this (apologies for length of post)...is it normal for families to do this to each other? Or rather to one member of a family? I feel like my sister is the one the family revolves around, my father is borderline abusive in his attitude and my mother is lovely but very passive aggressive, emotionally blackmailing. I feel totally under pressure the whole time when I want to build a life with my husband and daughter.

For info, I have much more I could post (starting cbt to try to deal with anxiety and other issues) but really need an outside perspective. Am I over reacting to find this attack on one child hard to deal with?

Opinions gratefully received!

No its not normal

Do you parents own the flat that you, your Dh and DD live in?

No. We live in a house that dh owns and the flat is rented out. I own it, pay mortgage etc, dad gave me a little towards a deposit when I bought it, I wanted to rent but he insisted it was a waste of money.

NN

It is not right at all and I would suggest counselling as well for you regarding your birth family. Their actions, all of them, are those of toxic parents. The attacks on your character are par for the course when it comes to such people; they are more than adept at giving you a laundry list of your own supposed shortcomings.

Block their e-mail address; you do not need or warrant such attacks. Same if they post you anything; destroy any letters from them.

You have yourself come from an unhealthy and dysfunctional family unit. People from dysfunctional families play roles; your sis is "golden child" (a role not without price) and you are "scapegoat". You have not made them this way, they have chosen to act like they do.

I would suggest you read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward along with posting on the "stately homes" thread on these pages.

Ultimately too you may want to cut them all off from you.

It sadly was very common with my family, and the last time my father 'phoned me to tell me how i had upset my sister was the last time i spoke to any of them. i changed address and phone no and have had very little depression since ( i am manic depressive).

My life is much happier now since i disowned them, and while it took a long time for me to realise that everything wasn't my fault, i'm glad i did. i will never have contact with them again, and i hope for your sake that if your family are even half as abusive as mine were (and it sounds like they are) that you will find the strength to do the same.

They sound bloody horrible. Why do you want to be around any of them? And WHY if the flat is YOURS would you give to anyone. It is YOURS. I would consider returning the money he gave you as a deposit and telling the lot of 'em to fuck off. You have your own family now, fuck those other abusive bastards! (Can you tell that I come from a dysfunctional family myself ;) )

Your Dh sounds nice so it is good that you managed to pick someone who does not reinforce your quite obvious low self esteem.

Not normal...but very familiar...this is why I have never taken any monetary help from my parents...the price was always too high.

Same as you fav' sis', me the no hope bad girl. Pah!

I agree with fannyfoghorn pay them back the deposit ASAP and limit contact as much as you can cope with.

Your family is like my DH's. It is all about his sister, who is apparently wonderful. His parents never challenged her, never recognised her appalling behaviour towards them, DH and many others, always scapegoated DH. They even told me not to have a second child because (looking at DH) 'The second one's always a sod'.

Bear in mind what a psychotherapist who met them all socially suddenly said to DH, watching SIL and PIL do their merry dysfunctional dance: 'Don't worry about it mate, you are well out of that one'.

And he was right. DH, like you-strong relationship and friendships, stable, lovely. Golden child SIL-alone, can't maintain any relationships (except with PIL, and that's stormy), unstable.

It is horrible for you but often being the favoured child is more unhealthy in the long run.

Just make sure you get a truly fair deal over the flat.

I agree with Attila. It is not normal behaviour.

If you sell the flat, are you meant to give your Dad half of the profit or just the amount he gave to you? Is there any way you can give him back his money without selling the flat?

Once you've given him his money, you should distance yourself. You will never be able to do anything right in his eyes (and, by extension, your mum and your sister).

Another one recommending "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward, your parents sound like loons who you won't ever be good enough for

their opinions on the flat are unreasonable

their bahviour is apalling

well done to your DH for putting up with them

their responses/your sister's behaviour is not normal, no.

Just what I was going to ask FedUpWithLies, if you dad just wants the money back he lent to you as a deposit could you get that somehow without selling the flat?

None of that sounds normal by the way, my parents wouldn't get invoved in fall outs, you're adults it's none of your dad's business really

No, not normal. Interesting that you describe him as patriarchal - I would used the word bully.

He's still treating you as he would a child and by giving in gracefully you're colluding with him and allowing the bullying to continue.

Good for DH for standing up to them and for you.

Could you get a loan to repay your father? Banks do not emotionally black-mail the people they lend to.

It is not normal family behaviour.

Thank you for your opinions. I've just always worried that perhaps it was me, or in my head, feeling hard done by etc. My parents adore my sister and I, and DD..their first granchild. But they have such an odd way of showing it and get too involved.

My mother is the type to take offence at anything, and if you try to tell her that she is being unfair you're accused of ganging up on her, cue tears, hiding in bedroom etc etc. She was ill a few years ago and has been worse/more emotional since. DH and I want to move to Wales or Devon for more space etc, and the guilt trip has been astonishing. Nothing direct, just the tone of voice or comment that it wil take them longer to get to us than it would take MIL. Which is bizarre. I know I have the right to live where I want (given we grew up 4 hrs away from both sets of grnadparents, and when I was 18 my parents moved 3 hours away from where I was living/we had lived throughout childhood), but I can't get rid of the heavy weight of guilt I feel. And that isn't fair on me, DH or long-term DD either.

My sister is a nice person but with very low confidence, but is used to having her own way. No mater what the row you can guarantee that it'll be my fault, or at least I will be the only one trying to gloss over it or keep everyone jolly. I tried to tell my dad that she can be vile, but he told me not to be ridiculous and to get over it/not to drag up that past (he was doing exactly that but it is ok when the 'hurt' is perpetuated against my sister.) I asked him why her feelings etc mattered and were taken as gospel (he never asked DH or I what happened) but mine were ridiculous, no answer, just aggression. He is the master of the quiet, icy stern-ness (for want of a better word!) I tried to tell him about the number of times my sister has tried to humiliate me in public...case in point: both bridesmaids at a friend's wedding, at the end a load of us decided to go on to a late night venue to carry on drinking. She decided she wanted to go home, so I had to get a taxi with her (she was about 24, me 27). I said I wanted to go out, she should go on without me, I'd get her in a taxi (we lived in a very quiet place, no danger!). She stood up and yelled at me that I was a slut, an embarrassment to the family, the people didn't want me to go with them, I was making a fool of myself etc etc. I laughed and went anyway, she didn't talk to me for days. Again my fault for upsetting her, they wouldn't hear my side.

The flat is a difficult one, if I had realised just how conditional this gift was I never would have acceoted it. I suspect it has lost value and the whole gift won't be there anymore. To begin with dad said he wanted it all back regardless, I would have to take a loan or something to pay him back. I told him how ridiculous it seemed to jeopardise my family's financial security just to penalise me for my husband having an arguement (not even an argument, but him telling her he didn't believe her about something) with my sister. Especially given she has no need for a flat, she just wants one. I offered to give her the flat, but dad said she wouldn't want it as it wasn't the right type and it had been mine. Both seem silly reasons to potentially lose thousands to me, but not when sister is concerned.

Anyway, I will be happy to be rid of it and not have the potential for him to be like this again. In principle I know it is mine, but I just can't deal with it any more. I have given them a few weeks to look into my sister taking it on, if not then it is going on the market and he can have what it fetches.

I want to sort out my own assertiveness when it comes to them, short term I was for once quite good at standing up for myself, but long term I need to get rid of the guilt etc I think, we need to be able to move and do what we want for the good of our family.It isn't fair on DH, and I don't want to inadvertantly do it to DD and any future children by not knowing any better.

When everything is calm I just doubt myself as to whether it is all in my head, DH insists it isn't but then he is biased! I just never feel at ease because I am always wondering if I could have done something to upset one of them, and it isn't right that they have this much impact on my life I don't think!

God, another essay, sorry!

This would be perfectly normal in my family. My family is fucked up.

I think money is used a lot as a means of control in such families. My father tried to use it with me (have been NC for over a year).

You bought that flat and pay the mortgage. He had a small role in all that. Now he is trying to make you sell it (or telling you not to) as a means of control. It is not about the money, it is about exercising control over you by whatever means necessary. He is also trying to claim the credit for that achievement (and it is an achievement) by effectively making out you could not have done it without him. Again, a means of control. Is there any way you can raise the money to pay him back without selling the flat?

Is your father really intending to give your flat to your sister?

Even leaving aside the appalling behaviour they've meted out to you, you'd be mad to give up your own property, that you paid for, gain an income from, and stands as a buffer against hard times, or an inheritance for your children in the future.

So what if he helped with the deposit? Big deal - find a way to pay an amount off representing his investment (add on interest if he insists on making a profit from his own child).

Then Dsis can be helped in the same way you were, and they can bail her out when she can't keep up payments.

Might have got the wrong end of the stick about this aspect - but, in answer to your OP - it's not normal behaviour but, sadly, fairly common if some threads on MN are anything to go by.

Sorry, OP, xpost

DO NOT GIVE YOUR SISTER THE FLAT!!!!

It is YOURS IN LAW.

Exactly what was trying to say Fanny (what an apt name!)

How much did he give you for the deposit?

One day your DD might need that flat. Why should your sister benefit from all your mortgage payments?

Bloody hell. Tell them all to fuck off NOW. They are ruining your life.

Dont give the flat back or sell it !!!!

He's an idiot but don't let it blight your life, you can't change people and their attitudes but you can stand up for yourself and you did so well done.

You should keep your distance from your sister, you don't have to fall out but don't put up with her either, live your life and be around people that make you feel good, not bad, it's their problem.

I know it must be hard but you have done nothing wrong.