If I list the things dh does that make seriously make me want to leave him, can you help work out if there is a future?

[ijudge]

DH:

Lies every time he thinks I won't like what he has done. It can be really small petty lies or really big ones. I literally have to catch him in the lie before he will tell the truth. His stock response to anything is' it wasn't me' or 'I didn't do it. Its like dealing with a little boy.

He never takes responsibility for his actions, he can never say sorry I shouldn't have done that. First he denies and lies, then he blames someone else (normally me) then he tries to distract the conversation away from the topic so we end up talking about something else and forget the original problem.

He doesn't seem to care about anybody else's possessions. He looks after his things, but mine and our two dd's things are constantly being lost because he can't remember what he has done with the. I spend ages searching for things. He can never put things back where they belong, he out dd's toothpaste on top of the shower unit the other day and I spent ages in the morning looking for it (he's at work so not here for the morning rush!) In the end I had to phone him (have to phone him nearly every other day to work out wheres he out something) he said he put it there because dd was messing around with, but why not put it back later? or putt it somewhere I could find it. Its so exhausting looking for things all the time. Yesterday he put the broom back in the spare room where we never go instead of in the clockroom, he said he never and dd1 did but she's 3 so I know that's not true. But like I said he lies about everything.

He can't control dd1, she is a typical 3yr old and is pushing the boundaries. If she doesn't do what he wants it ends up in them arguing and then her having a massive meltdown. No matter how much she is screaming I'm not allowed to get involved even if I can calm the situation in 2 mins. I have tried to tell him how to deal with her, told him what I do. But he seems incapable of being the adult and always ends going to her level and arguing with her - it's like listening to a pair of kids, not a father daughter. It breaks my hear to listen to her getting so upset, I know he loves her to bits but he has no idea how to be a parent IMHO. Last night it happened again, he did bedtime with dd1 while I bf'd dd2. It resulted in dd1 coming into the bedroom and telling me daddy had slapped her on the face with the flannel. I quesitoned him he said he didn't and asked dd1 why she had said that. But I don't know if I believe him.

I told him later that I couldn't live like this anymore, am I over reacting? I am sleep deprived with a 3 month old baby so could be hormonal.

Once you know you've tried to improve matters and there are still issues, only then think about leaving. Don't forget, you don't realise until you are through it how much of a strain lack of sleep and a small baby puts on you.

Remember, you can't change anybodys behaviour but your own. Hopefully your efforts to foster some harmony will be a catalyst for change in your husband.

My advice as a first step is totally ignore any lying. To the extent that you try not to ask him a direct question if need be. Take lying out of the equation, I believe it will sort itself out when your husband gets on board with improving the family life.

If you are regularly having to phone him to ask where your things are then it might not be an accidant, it could be a deliberate attempt to wind you up done in a subtle way , a tactic documented in some well known books.

I also think that he is gaslighting you , or attempting to . You cant stop him from lying , or deliberateley moving your things . Its simply a symptom of a much bigger problem . Considering his lies are so petty re the beer , it was no big deal , i dont think he lied because he was worried , i think he lied because he got a kick out of it .

I would have serious concerns about being married to someone who can lie so easily .

I think you treat him like a child
constant nagging and phoning him at work everyday asking where he's pu things
saying he's a shit parent to your 3 year old
no wonder he lied about drinking the beer because he knew you'd give him grief
you need to be a team not his mum

I don't want to phone him. I want to be able to get up, get ready and leave the house without contacting him.

Even when I get everything ready the night before, I still end up searching for things which I would never have considered could go missing eg the toothpaste.

He does say he lies though because he'll get grief if he tells the truth. I am willing to accept the parts that are my fault in all this.

I do want to work it out. But I don't know if we are past that

This is madness. You are both adults in the relationship. You are not his parent and therefore child-raising techniques about ignoring bad behaviour and praising the good are not appropriate. This will simply perpetuate the parent-child dynamic that is responsible for so many romantic relationships failing in this country at the moment.

Work out whether you would really "give him grief" for drinking two bottles of beer, for misplacing items and other trivial acts of selfishness. Then look at the more serious issues; the debt, the hitting your DD, the lying. Some of those things should engender "grief" - they are big deals and not just thoughtless and trivial cluelessness.

If you believe that you should stop giving him grief for what are pretty major issues, then you are blaming yourself for his problems. It is a complete deflection of responsibility, claiming that someone "has to lie" or else they will get "grief". How about not fucking up in the first place? Wouldn't that be better than lying? This is passing the responsibility over to you. Don't fall for it and don't take it.

In your shoes, I would consider some couples counselling, asking the counsellor to help you deal with the parent-child dynamic that has taken over your relationship. It is true that part of that process will be looking at how you have come to enable that dynamic, but you'll soon realise that your enabling has had the effect of worsening the problem. That is a behaviour you can change.

You are in no way responsible for the fact he tells lies and dont take that on for a moment. Your responsible for no ones behaviour but your own . He lies because hes childish and gets a kick out of it .

Running around the house everyday searching for essential items isnt fun , and stinks of someone playing stupid games with you .

He won't do councselling

I was going to post that you need to do something about his lying then I realised you can't do anything about it, only he can. He needs to take responsibility for his behaviour and to accept it is not right to keep lying to you and he has to do some thing about it.

I agree with WWIFN that you need couples counselling and I think he needs some counselling on his own to work out why he lies the way he does and to find ways of stopping it.

just a few thoughts

maybe the lying is self defence maybe if he tells the truth you shout, or blame him, maybe he thinks you question him too much like you dont trust him

its possible if you are sleep deprived that things you would have shrugged off lightly 3 years ago are now a big issue and to him its you that has changed,

my DH is a bit bad about having more than his share... so if there are 2 of something and I don't have 1 when he does he might have mine later I tnd to deal with it by saying I was really looking forward to having that wednesday night while doing ironing or something

when DD was very small my Dh had not had much experience with babies but it was frustrating for him to always have to do things my way and he wanted to try something else, inless harmful I just bite my tongue and let him try occasionally he got her over excited and she would not sleep then I explained my reasoning but often dads feel left out of parenting and then you get the silliness you describe, my DH is not like that now DD is older they have wonderful relationship our parenting goals are very similar but not always the method

regarding not returning stuff to original place while I am bad for that and Dh cant find it; not so bad otheway round as i will find it quickly any how;

good luck but try and get over the sleep thing before making decisions as i think you may be too stressed

My dh was like this, he'd lie so casually about things that were so stupid. Just like the beer thing, you wouldn't care if he told you he'd drunk them already, but the fact that he lied makes you angry.

The number of times I said to him "why did you not just tell the truth in the first place, this would have been shrugged off as a simple mistake/accident"

I don't suppose his mother is particularly dominant is she? My dh was the classic passive aggressive. Would lie to avoid confrontation, but obviously caused confrontation with it.

It's a long and hard road to change. But in case you're wondering, it does end up affecting the dcs. After a while dc1 began lying in a similar way. It also meant dc1 learnt not to believe his dad.

That's mended now, but a horrible time was had by all.

Bluntly it sounds like he lies because he loathes conflict and fighting with you and it's the easy way out. Do you tend to blow up at him? I'm not being critical; when very sleep dep I did with my DH despite always being calm with DS.

If you tell him your marriage will fail if he doesn't go to Relate with you, and that as far as you're concerned things really are now that serious, you may find he'll agree to going.

My DH is also classic and acknowledged passive aggressive - his mother is a control freak and tries to live through him and he learned to cope that way. I just sat him down and spelled out that we weren't going to work that way, that honesty between us was absolutely essential, and he's very good with that, tbh. But we almost split so many times when DS was tiny. That first two years is horrendous for almost everyone, I think, and until they sleep through consistently. And if you're so tired you get disproportionately angry about things without warning (tiredness takes me that way, not saying it necessarily will you) then the beer etc could just be him trying to avert that.

He probably reacts as he does with DD1 because he can't take much more, tbh, and at least he isn't PA with her!

I do sympathise, it's awful, but it also sounds very normal for a family with two such tiny kids. He's not abusive, he's just being a twit. You say he is a good, kind, loving man, and it sounds like the current pressure and exhaustion is bringing out the worst in you all.

I also suspect he is forgetting things that aren't uppermost in his mind because he's so knackered. Sadly my DH would find his own possessions uppermost.

I appreciate that seeing someone handle your DD1 less than well is upsetting - I get the same way. But she won't be this age forever, and losing her father is likely to be a damn sight more harmful, short of abuse or neglect, than his not being ept in managing tantrums. And if you were to split, you'd have them in his sole care every other weekend minimum, so his issues in managing her meltdowns wouldn't go away, they'd just be out of your earshot and sight.

If your marriage is a good one when you don't have tiny kids, then this too shall pass. It's the biggest stress test ever of a marriage and my own was catastrophic at that stage. We're blissful again now we're past it. Decisions like this are best made on a good night's sleep and when you aren't feeling a total Mama Bear, IMO.

ijudge, I feel your pain . I too have a young DD and I also believe that DH lies to get himself out of trouble.

In the past he had serious debt problems, ran up £000's of debt on his own credit cards (before we got married and had joint bank accounts), so now I control all the finances and manage the joint account. We both have kept our own bank accounts that a small amount of money a month goes into from our joint account, as far as I'm concerned, I have no idea what he does with his money and he has no idea what I do with mine. But both of our wages go into our joint account and I am unscrupulous with dealing with that. I do this because I don't trust him to be honest with me about money.

DH is an excellent father though and isn't childish in that respect. But seems to lie so easily. He'd been smoking for 5 years before he finally admitted to me that he was (after promising that he'd given up when we first met). He didn't smoke in front of me that whole time, but I could smell it on him and he still lied to me, he must have thought I was stupid.

So I know what it's like to live with someone who lies. And even though I don't have any advice to give you (otherwise I'd be taking it myself!), I just want you to know that you're not alone...

In my case though, it's more 'Gaslighting' especially when I read texts on his phone from someone, then confront him, he then deletes them and tells me that I must have been seeing things because there aren't any there!

Sorry for hijacking - just needed to rant and your OP struck a cord with me...

what is gaslighting?

sorry, I don't want to take away from the thread...

gaslighting is when someone very persuasively tries to make you believe that reality is only in your head. It's often used by abusers to isolate and control their victims. An ex, for an example, used to insist the phone hadn't rung when a girl he was cheating on me with called, and hung up when I answered. He actually suggested I needed to see a doctor, as I'd been badly depressed as a teenager and he suggested it had returned, only with me losing a grip on reality. Hugged me and said we'd get through it together.

Was 16 years ago now and I can't believe I fell for it, but anyone can, given the right circs. If someone you trust insists your reality is wholly wrong, you question it, and begin to accept their judgement for your own. And then you end up under the thumb, absolutely. A lot of men having affairs do this - I found out later it had happened to an aunt; she dropped all the family for a year because her not-so "D"H made her think she was going crazy, when he was denying an affair. He then tried to use that period to take the kids, as she "was unstable".

In this instance I think her DH is being a coward, not a gaslighter.

Oh god I wouldn't be able to live like that. Never being able to believe a word out of his mouth it would drive me crazy. I am actually getting incredibly frustrated just thinking about what is happening to you OP.
Whats the point of a relationship like that? It serioulsy sounds like its not worth the bother.
Have you tried counselling - maybe if he can figure out why he lies he can address it, because it does sound like it is nearly instinctive.
Are you sure he doesn't have a drink problem? My MIL is an alcoholic and we only discovered in the past couple of years she was so good at hiding it. She would lie about everything all the time (still does), even stuff she didn't need to and were unrelated to the drinking. I think part of it was that she genuinely forgot things that happened because she was so pissed but also it was that the habit was so ingrained.
Just a thought.

I couldn't live like this either. Basically, you can't trust that he's ever telling you the truth, you have to go and prove it for yourself (the beer, for example.) That's no way to be in a relationship.

If he won't even consider counselling, maybe go on your own. It helped me see my XH's behaviour for what it was and develop strategies to cope with it and eventually get myself out of the situation.

Is there any chance whatsoever that he could have early onset dementia and genuinely can't remember drinking beer or whatever? It could also make him less sensible/logical when dealing with small DCs.

Can he remember appointments, does he write lots of stuff down and still forget it? What about your birthday and anniversaries?

This isn't because of baby stress. His dishonesty is adding to your stress and there's NO excuse for it. If it was caused by an illness, then he'd have been embarrassed about the beer, wouldn't he? Or confused. But it was a joke to him.

I think this is it. I think he finds it amusing to have you running around in ever-decreasing circles, turning the house upside down and so on. That makes me not like him very much. He seems pretty short on self-respect, and to have none whatsoever for you and DD.

I'd recommend laying it on the line to him. Tell him it's that serious, insist on Relate if you have to. If he won't go, give him a divorce petition; you CAN'T let things go on like this!

It'll be worth making sure you know where all your money is, too. As WWIFN and others have said, an individual who lies about the whereabouts of household cleaning items is likely to lie about other things.

There are psychiatric disorders that cause compulsive lying. They are all serious. No matter what the cause, you can't and shouldn't expect yourself and your children to "manage" a life of permanent uncertainty about even the smallest things. Your life would actually be more manageable without him, wouldn't it? You'd know where stuff was!

I hope that drawing out your lines will prompt him to see it's not funny, and stop. If he can't or won't - he's faulty :(

He came home from work and said he was really sorry, there would be no more lies and he would change. That was at 6pm.

He just went into the kitchen and ate the piece of fruit loaf I told dd1 I would save her for tomorrow (she wanted it before bed and I said no she could have it tomorrow). He came into living room and said he found a small piece of cake in the bread bin, I said it was for dd1, he said he had thrown it away, I checked and surprise surprise it's not in the bin - turns out he had eaten it, and then lied about it.

Eating it wasn't a big deal, a bit upsetting to dd1 tomorrow (well and me when I have to handle the situation) but why lie? He's gone out now to replace it, saying he's sorry and he's gonna change and stop lying .. yeah yeah heard it all before.

Seriously PISSED OFF

Don't know if this is any help

<a class="break-all" href="//help.www.truthaboutdeception.com/lying-and-deception/confronting-a-partner/compulsive-lying/types-of-liars.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">help.www.truthaboutdeception.com/lying-and-deception/confronting-a-partner/compulsive-lying/types-of-liars.html

I haven't read it all.

I don't know what the answer is as my exH and my mother are like this. Or they say 'I don't know', when they clearly do know.

My solution was to leave. But there were other problems too, so the lying was a minor thing really!

It can't be good for your DC though if you are doubting their word because you don't know who to believe.

Was he like this before DC?

Also have you read the gaslighting thread?

There are descriptions on there of this type of behaviour which may help you to decide what he is playing at.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned "compulsive liar" before now tbh.

He reminds me of my brother, who has ADD and has always lied - he doesnt seem to understand the emotional impact his lies have. Lots of promises to change, nothing happens etc.
NOT saying it to excuse him or say that ADD = compulsive liars.

I used to lie VERY easily, I had no conscience at all, and I didn't see the harm in doing so. I wasn't interested in consequences or other people's feelings, and had no empathy. Very thankful to a good child therapist and wonderful friends who helped turn me into a human being. Sorry, just wanted to give you perspective from other side.

I used to lie a lot, too, MmeO, though not about things like this. Of course I have said "It wasn't me" or "It's in the post" to try and avoid hassle sometimes, but my 'mad' lying was the type that comes from lack of confidence. I tried to make myself seem more interesting, glamorous, etc. I would also let people's misconceptions about me go uncorrected - lack of confidence again. I sort of weaned myself off it, which involved several years of saying "I was lying when I said that." Embarrassing in the short-term, but it worked.

When it comes to the last piece of cake, beer, etc, in a three-person household, though, lies are so blatantly open to discovery that it has to be some sort of disorder! Whether it's a misplaced sense of humour or something more sinister, it really has to be stopped or addressed or OP will never know which way is up!

... unless she's gaslighting him ...

Madame Ovary this (compulsive lying) has been raised on the thread. Downthread, I wrote this:

"Compulsive or pathological lying isn't normal and shouldn't be bargained away with a refrain of "Oh, life's like that when you've got small children..."

It isn't."

I have huge sympathy for you OP. My ex lied compulsively and couldn't handle any sort of confrontation.

His PA behaviour drove me (almost literally) mad and his parenting skills were poor.

He promised to change many times and finally admitted he had a serious problem.

Counselling didn't help until he saw someone who specialised in ASD and diagnosed Aspergers.

I couldn't cope any longer and we've now separated.

I think the fact that you're so distressed by your H's behaviour indicates much deeper problems in him than silliness or carelessness - this needs to be investigated if you want to keep your sanity imho.