I hate the way DH treats DD

[warzone]

DH and I have been together for 19 years. We have a 2.5 year old DD.

For the first year of her life, I was on mat leave, and for the second year I worked very part time. I absolutely loved every minute of it and made the most of the time we had. We did baby massage, swimming classes, play groups, library trips, play dates etc. On days we had nothing planned we still did loads of activities. Our lives were very full and very happy.

Circumstances dictated that I had to resume full time work just after DD's 2nd birthday and DH became a full time SAHD. I would have preferred to continue as a SAHM but I understand my responsibility to bring in an income as necessary and I thought it would be good for DH to have a turn at it anyway.

Six months into our new arrangement, I feel like running away with my DD.

He takes her to no organised activities at all. He has just (in the last 2 weeks) started taking her on a regular play date with another toddler. He hasn't taken her to the library once. He hasn't taken her swimming once. I took him to the play group we used to go to - he said he didn't like the people and would try out another one, but he hasn't. As far as I can tell, he doesn't get her dressed until lunchtime, and she spends a lot of the day playing by herself (although I'm sure he plays with her sometimes) while he is on the computer or playing on his iphone. He puts a film on for her in the afternoons. If they go to the park to feed the ducks, he considers that a busy and fulfilling day. Once I am home, or at weekends and holidays, he just gets on with his own stuff (computer, iphone) and she is my sole responsibility. The 'default' position is me looking after DD and him doing his own thing.

Worse than any of this though, is his temper. He shouts at her (sometimes really loudly - making me jump out of my skin) over every little thing. Every other thing he even says to her is a negative - don't do this or stop doing that. I think he is over critical and has too high expectations of 2 year old behaviour and reasoning powers.

The very worst thing happened the other evening. He was playing with her in that 'rough housing' way that dads do. He was pretending to bite her and she (unsurprisingly) bit him for real on the shoulder a couple of times. He told her not to and when she did it again, he grabbed the back of her hair and pulled her off him by her hair which distressed her. I had very serious words with him about it but he couldn't see that he'd done anything wrong, calling it a "kneejerk reaction" to the pain she was inflicting on him and that he hadn't actually injured her.

His temper with her seems to be getting worse. Today he was shouting at her the moment he came downstairs - I can't remember why - and has shouted at her several times since - yet I've been looking after her all day!

I've asked him to find work so I can give up my job to look after her again. I don't think he does a good enough job and I'm beginning to be very wary of his temper with her. (I haven't said this so directly to him.)

By the way, she often now shouts back at him. She's copying his behaviour. And then he tells her off for shouting.

Our relationship is also far from wonderful (hence me wanting to run away), but this post is far too long already, and I'm more worried about DD than me.

I don't think it's one incident though Annie, it sounds like he shouts and is unkind and impatient with her a lot of the time. I threw my DS off me when he bit my shoulder once, it was indeed instinctive and he hit his head on the wall behind, it was horrible but it is no way part of a pattern of behaviour on my part. Everyone loses their rag from time to time (although hairpulling is still vile) but you need to acknowledge when you do and do better in the future. Doesn't sound like OP's H is interested in doing that.

could DH get a good job if he wanted to? Was he made redundant?

EricNM - as I said, I was impatient and unkind to my DDs when I was a SAHM, because I was depressed and desperately unhappy.

If it had occurred to me for even a second that DH was planning to take the girls and leave me over it instead of understanding my situation, supporting me and helping me to find a solution, I would have been absolutely devastated. And quite rightly so!

This is a partnership, a marriage and a family who have a problem. Breaking them up should be the last resort, not the first thought!

Annie She did say there were more problems in the relationship than this, so I don't think it's directly comparable.

OP, it doesn't sound good to me. Can you get her into nursery, even part-time? That way you could see if he steps up to the mark more when he isn't 'having' to do it 9-5 every day. I'm not that optimistic but it might be worth a go and be a useful halfway house stage, at least for now.

I've instinctively hit my dd when bitten- it's incredibly painful and I understand what he means by knee jerk reaction. However I felt dreadful about it afterwards. I think it's worrying that he doesn't feel guilt or won't admit it if he does. Sounds like he's got problems facing up to how difficult parenting a toddler is. Don't know much about them but would parenting classes or an active listening workshop be useful?

you were v young when you got together? 19 years is long time - you must know him well-

has he changed or is this symptomatic of his personality?
has he always had short temper got angry over things?
why did he offer to become SAHD?

you could look up some parenting courses and/or Dads group? surestart centre? put her in nursery half time?

suggest he visits GP if you think he may be depressed. but it doesnt excuse his shouting/temper...

the hair pulling - yeh may have been kneejerk - but did he loook remorseful after, sit and apologise, tell her sorry?

maybe suggest he goes to GP, does the depression questionnaire with GP if being at home is bothering him.
suggest parenting courses/classes/groups.
suggest if he stressed or angry when you there - that he takes a walk.

does he do exercise? can he put her in the local swimming pool/local authority gym creche and do something for himself in the week?

maybe if he doesnt listen to your suggestions, then next time he shouts at her you say very calmly - we are not going to stay around today if you are shouting - then leave you with dd for an hour or so give him time to reflect?

you can make all the suggestions as a supportive wife....give him some chance to take action - but if he doesnt act on your suggestions or do something about it himself then you need to consider longer term options.

my exP gave up his job as it was stressful, he thought being at home would be "easy"... it was the beginning of a long and drawn out descent into major depression and other issues leading to separation - however his temper/anger had always been there...

you have a child there - do what you can to help him change but think what you might do if he doesnt.

Yes Annie and I suggested as a first option that she asks him to get f/t work so she can go p/t, and if there are other issues that persist, not related to him being a SAHP, in a few months, then she will be in a better and safr position WRT residence of the DD.

I would also be a shit SAHM so I'm not judging on that count, but the constant shouting and unreasonable expectations of a 2yo are not quite the same thing, I don't think.

Let's look at the facts here. You were together and on your own as a couple for 16.5 years before having a child. Whereas you took to motherhood with glee and enjoyed all the activities, your H perhaps hasn't - and doesn't.

2.5 year olds are often far more demanding to look after than a baby full-time, because they are developing a personality and are often hitting the tantrum stage. Not for nothing is this stage called the "terrible twos".

I didn't much like toddler groups either and if I'd been a lone female in a Dads-only group, I might have disliked them even more. I went under sufferance. When our DD was 2.5, her behaviour frequently used to drive me up the wall. If my H had been micro-managing what I did with her every day, I would have been mightily pissed off. If he had wanted to leave me and take her and our DS with him when I frequently shouted at her after yet another tantrum (her favourite of which was sitting down in dog pooh in the street and refusing point blank to move) I would have felt he was being horribly unsupportive.

He is right about pulling her hair as an instinctive reaction. My DD once punched me quite forcibly on the nose and it hurt so much I pushed her away with some force and she landed on her bum while we were in the garden. I felt terrible about it and apologised to her instantly and told my H about it as soon as he came home.

After checking that DD was absolutely fine and not apparently hurt or traumatised, he took me in his arms and gave me a big cuddle while I sobbed. I will always appreciate his reaction. He told me that he found this stage difficult too, especially as our DS had been much easier. He reassured me that DD was developing a strong character and helped me to see the positive side of her stubborness and determination to get what she wanted.

He was right of course; she is a fabulously confident, assertive teenager now, who won't take any nonsense from anyone; just the sort of daughter I wanted to raise actually. Her and I are very close and we often joke about her toddler tantrums, which both H and I put a positive spin on now with her, pointing out that she learned to be assertive and strong very early.

I would imagine your H bitterly regrets pulling her hair and that he might admit he isn't enjoying this phase of your DD's life. It's hard to admit as a parent if you're not enjoying your child. What helps is a supportive partner who can reassure you that this phase will pass and who praises you when you get something right.

I get the feeling that your H might think he's living in an atmosphere of constant disapproval. No-one teaches us how to become a tolerant, patient parent and some are more instinctive than others.

As a logical adult, your H can see that shouting doesn't get results and that reasoning doesn't always work with a tired toddler, but if there is a parent in this country who hasn't gone through a shouty phase, I'd be surprised.

Your DD is old enough to understand a sorry and a cuddle from him about her hair, if that is, he hasn't already done that. Try to empathise with how tough this phase is and ask your H how you can help him with this very demanding job. Being empathetic might just be all the permission your H needs to admit that he is finding this tough and difficult and that he feels ashamed at his own reactions. Using this approach is likely to yield more results than piling on the blame and disapproval, if you want to keep your family together.

I'll try to respond to some of your questions.

He did not regret pulling her hair. He spent the whole night justifying himself while I repeatedly said "there is nothing you can say that will make it right". He didn't yank it, he pulled her off him by her hair. I do know of two other incidents where he has 'tapped' her - again not causing injury but in reaction to her hitting him. She hits us quite often and I do sometimes wonder if he is giving her taps more regularly than I know about. He's well aware of my feelings on the subject.

He could be depressed. He has unresolved issues. He is an alcoholic (does not drink during day).

If I leave it's possible he may go for custody. He really doesn't have any family but us so he may want to hold on to whatever he can.

He has changed over the years. He wasn't an alcoholic when we got together. He wasn't depressed. Then his father died 15 years ago and he hasn't really dealt with his grief and anger properly yet. His mother died before I met him. Both his parents were alcohoics.

He has the potential to get a decent enough job but I don't think he will do it. I know he doesn't want to. He is a trained professional but has a problem with committing himself to a permanent job. He is very wishy washy about his career - doesn't know what he wants or how to take a step in a different direction.

He agreed to become a SaHD because his contract was coming to an end with no prospect of renewal and I have a permanent job and my employer wanted me back full time.

He really does love us. He regularly stands in doorways watching me and DD together, looking all doe-eyed saying "my girls". He doesn't have anything/anyone stable in his life other than us. Splitting up would be devastating for him.

WhenwillIfeelnormal made some really valid points...

but:

"He could be depressed. He has unresolved issues. He is an alcoholic "

• that isnt good long term is it? not when you have a dd together?

it is fine not knowing what you want to do or not having career - if you happy about it.

"He doesn't have anything/anyone stable in his life other than us" yeh my exP too .

but why not?

did you ever prevent him?

is that his responsibility or yours?

again - not an issue if he happy in his own company - but if he holding it over your head like an emotional gun then it could be a problem....

if you both want to resolve the issues you could try Relate - as well as getting onto al-anon and him to AA...and maybe get him to therapy over his unresolved issues... is going to be hard slog.

See now that sounds a lot worse in your latest post. He won't work becasue basically he feels above it "doesn't know waht he wants" tend to in my experience translate as "has discovered that all jobs have their shit bits, and actually only one person in each company ultimately gets the top job"
And looking sentimental in doorways is easy, wiping up the fith accident of the day from your toilet training toddler, while still saying "it doesn't matter" with a (manic)smile on your face, then cracking on with the day is how you show love.

My DH is SAHD to our twins and though he also doesn't do playgroups (and since I have never seen a man there I don't entirely blame him) he is up early, properly engages with them and is kind and loving towards them. He takes them out for a walk or a trip out somewhere most days.

The children don't shout or hit. I have never heard DH shout at them. He does get exasperated sometimes, but he never shouts and never, ever hits. If he behaved with our DTs how your DH is behaving I would be out of there until he sorted himself out.

I agree with SMA, looking soppy in doorways is easy - it's the day to day with your daughter that he isn't managing right.

warzone

re this comment:-
"He really does love us. He regularly stands in doorways watching me and DD together, looking all doe-eyed saying "my girls". He doesn't have anything/anyone stable in his life other than us. Splitting up would be devastating for him"

I don't mean to be harsh here but I just want to say to you, "oh FGS!". His primary relationship is with drink, not his family. He is nothing but a drunkard, unemployed bully (he also does not want to work and probably cannot hold down any job anyway for any length of time due to his alcoholism) who cannot look after your DD at all. She probably "annoys" him and thus cannot be bothered with her other than to lash out and shout at her. Poor kid.

You've lived with him for so long that you've normalised his alcoholism, his depression (no doubt linked, alcohol is also a depressant). He's likely to be self medicating his depression with alcohol. Alcoholism can be learnt behaviour; you write that both his parents were alcoholic. Not totally surprised to read therefore he is alcoholic. Its all about him and you all tiptoe around him/live in fear as a result.

Yes it would be "devastating" for him if you were to leave - because he won't have you as his enabler around any more!. You enable him. They can truly be the most selfish people in the world. He is not supporting you or his family and has pulled your DDs hair. She is now unsuprisingly copying his shouty behaviour. What else is he capable of when you are at work?.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents; what are the two of you teaching this child here?. Damaging lessons that's what.

Show this man you now mean business and that there are consequences for his actions. You cannot sit there and do nothing; that is now not an option for either you or your DD.

Daretodream (and anyone else)- is it not normal for 2.5 year olds to shout and hit? How old are your DTs? Are you suggesting that my DD's shouting and hitting is a direct result of his behaviour?

I know I've suggested myself that she shouts because she is copying him - she even comes out with the same words he does.

But does this mean that her hitting us could indicate that he is hitting her? Do other people's toddlers not hit if they are never hit themselves?

As far as I can tell, she tends to hit when she's bored or wants attention and isn't getting it. Which to be honest, isn't all that often with me. DH gets hit by her more than I do. (Although I have been guilty of ignoring her while mumsnetting and I get hit then.)

I don't think he is hitting her (If he is it's not hard enough to leave marks). But I don't know for sure

Oh God Attila

You can always be relied on to give it us straight can't you.

I have been in this relationship since I was 17. I don't know how to change things.

I know I need to change things.

"I know I've suggested myself that she shouts because she is copying him - she even comes out with the same words he does.
But does this mean that her hitting us could indicate that he is hitting her? Do other people's toddlers not hit if they are never
hit themselves?"

Hi warzone,

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents. What did you learn from your parents?.

What did your H also learn from his; both his mum and dad were alcoholics so by turn he learnt a lot of damaging lessons as a child. For all you know they lashed out at him in a similar manner as a child if he "annoyed" them.

You are at work of a day and thus have no real idea of what is going on behind closed doors. You write as well that your H does not really do anything much with her of a day; apart from anything else what sort of Dad is he being to her anyway?.

Is this really the life you want for you and your child?. An alcoholic parent will do this child no favours whatsoever.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?.

Even if we're not together, he'll still be her parent. In fact, won't I have even less control of how he deals with her?

warzone,

You got into this relationship at 17 when you were yourself still a child and thus had no real life experience behind you. Another supposition on my part is that you probably met him as well at a very low point in your life and perhaps thought he could be the answer to your prayers.

Doing nothing is not an option now; violence within the home more often than not escalates. Your DD is already copying phrases and doing actions that he uses.

At the top of this page are links re domestic violence. Use this to seek help and at the very least contact Womens Aid. Make that call and take that first and hardest step out. They can help and won't judge either.

You can change things for the better for you and your child but this man cannot remain within your lives day to day. He will destroy you, all he is now doing is dragging you both down with him.

He'll still be her Dad and you can formalise contact arrangements legally. He may well screw that arrangement up longer term and let her down re contact but initially he needs to be given the opportunity to have supervised contact with her. If he messes up then that's it, you gave him due opportunity to step up.

warzone, if you opt for single parenthood, you will work full time and your dd will be in nursery.

Why dont you try to suggest to your dh that it is good for dd to be in nursery, this will enable him to find work, and prepare her for school. etc.

Then he will no longer be the primary carer if you split. You will be working, your dd is in preschool, while your dh is an unemployed drunk. And that will be the status quo courts consider.... I would assume.

Don't assume anything with the family courts!! Really,don't!

I actually can't understand op why it's been left to go on so long? How can you go off to work each day leaving your dd in this position? I really can't get past that bit!

I can sympathise a lot with what Annie says. I have had a very tough few months and haven't been a good SAHM but I desperately want to do it and be better. I'd be absolutely devastated if DH was thinking of taking the DC's away rather than supporting me. I'm also wishy-washy about my career because I always assumed I'd be a SAHM - didn't realise quite how hard it was going to be!

But I'm trying to change. I'm looking into having some therapy to deal with some issues and I'm trying to get more exercise, which normally helps me. We get out every day at least once and I do try to do fun things with the DC's. Sometimes I do well, other times I don't.

Please try to talk to him first. Calmly and with opportunities for him to talk and you actually listen. Maybe him finding a part-time job would be the answer. Maybe he needs to have some therapy to help him deal with stuff. I don't know but you wont either until you talk to him and listen to him.

If you try that and it doesn't work, well then you have your answer. He doesn't or can't make it work so you have to take over or arrange other things.

My point is, she needs to remove her dd from the current situation and address her life and her relationship. Nursery may at present be her best option.

Put your child into paid childcare and let dh get a job. This alone might make things a lot better.

Parenthood is not easy for some people - I wonder if your dh is copying how he was brought up?

I would recommend some counselling for dh about drinking, and some parenting classes to open his eyes as to what is normal.