On verge of nervous breakdown with P and his mother.....

[vergeofbreakdown]

Hello, I have namechanged from my usual more silly name as I fear this may get a bit recognisable.

I'm at the end of my tether with the issues in my relationship (2 young DC) and the way I feel my MIL compounds them.

I guess this is a sort of cry for help. I have been leaning on a very good friend from work, but I cannot just keep burdening her. Looking for opinions on what I can do as she is remaining pretty sympathetic but impartial. Although she is "my" friend she has met P a few times so obviously doesn't want to say anything really bad against him.

Basically my P is (mostly) a good man and 95% of the time reliable and does help with housework etc. We have some problems where he thinks I'm too confrontational and our sex life is strained as I have body-issues not related to him but they make me really shy and almost scared of sex. He drinks a couple of cans of lager a few times a week after DC in bed which I have no problem with (I drink on weekends) , but if he goes out with mates he sometimes doesn't know when to stop and ignores responsibilities the next day which is a huge problem for me. Maybe happens once every 2 months, but still not good enough.

Last night he was going to watch something on his mates Sky after he finished work at 11pm and stay the night there as he was taking the car. MIL had DCs overnight. He was to sober up by morning and collect DC's at teatime. However he phoned his mum in morning to ask her to bring them down on train (she doesn't drive, and he has our car) as he was still drinking (at 8am!!!!). She just does it like a total doormat . It is the same with everything. He just relies on her to pick up the pieces with his own responsibilities and she just lies down and takes it. It drives me insane. He drives me insane.

But every time we set down boundaries as a family of 4 she will undermine me.
For example, P works long hours with the firm paperwork etc and I also work. We were never seeing each other because of his long hours and I felt like he was missing his DC growing up. So eventually after much heated discussions we agreed he would take at least 1 day off a week to be with us. When we were visiting his mother, she asked why he wasn't doing any overtime and he told her what we had agreed. She said "Nonsense! Men who work never see their families - that's life" Then she turned to me and said "Do you want him to be a house-husband or something? I'll bet your dad was working when you were young, don't talk nonsense!"

I was

She makes comments about how she things childminders are unsafe for children and wrong IN FRONT OF MY DD WHO ATTENDS AN AFTERSCHOOL CM!!!

She looks after the youngest when me+P are working then if I don;t like a descion she has made unilaterally (with or without P) she tells me that I should be a SAHM then if I want to have have all the say in my child's life!

She calls me when she can't get P on the phone and she is hysterical if my phone is off for a couple of hours. Saying things like "I just want to speak to my son" . When I ask "are you ok?" or "what is the problem?" she will say something like "It's a private and personal matter between me and my son" - Well why the f are you phoning me then?!

She seems to think I'm some money-grabbing bitch who is trying to use her son when actually he is the one who is not taking his responsibilities seriously at times!

I bit my tongue for so long as she looks after the DC a lot and seems to adore them. But recently I can't take any more. Today I told her she is enabling him by taking on his responsibilities for him and that it's not good for anyone, least of all him. All I got back were replies from him and her that I was to apologise for "abusing" her!

She was meant to be bringing my DC back at 6pm. Waited til 7.15 then phoned her. She then announced she is just going to put them to bed there as she is worried about P as he called from callbox to say he "fell asleep on bus and his phone got stolen" (what a load of utter bollocks i replied and asked why nobody had bothered to contact me after my work finished at 5.30), then got the reply "Stop calling my son a liar, listen you to me lady don't contact me again bad mouthing my son" and now she won't tell me where he is.

This doesn't happen often with P but this is really making me lose respect for him totally and I think I want us to split because of it. Although he won't ever talk about it because his mother reassures him that "you don't need to answer to anyone son"

It happens with her all the time though. She said to me last week that all I care about is money and children should come first!

I try to be strong but I'm just getting swamped by it all. The whole situation is making me physically ill. Sweats, shakes, feeling dizzy/faint, sick a lot etc. If I stand up to him, we can usually work through issues if I make it clear I won't tolerate such-and-such and he will change it (ie-the no days off thing) but if I stand up to her I just get dogs abuse from both of them telling me to stop "bullying" her.

I'm so confused and just don't know what to do. I feel almost like I'm not allowed a say in my own children's lives sometimes.

Sorry about extreme length of post. Helped to get it all out !

i dont mean to sound downbeat but i wouldnt tal to your p about your feelings etc, i would do all this on the side, quietly and find out your rights first.

and i know you wont not want your p to see his kids but firstly plan how you are going to get this situ sorted first in you and your childrens interest before informing him of your worries etc. just pretend everything is tickedy boo but keep your kids close.. i worry that this could become a scary situ so i would definitely not worry about rellie right now but sorting out your rights to ensure that they do not gain access to children. get that straight in your head first, talk to friends, attend the appt and only when you have an action plan which is watertight would i let on anything.

good luck, sometimes we need to find a bit more strength and conviction but you can do it

xxxx

agree that you don't have to make an excuse to take your children home at night!

i'm sorry things are so up in the air with P. of course you want some clarity - very hard for you that this is happening the way it is. have you called womens aid yet? please do - they were a wonderful support to me when I was facing a similar situation to yours. they know how difficult it is, how confusing, heartbreaking, worrying etc. they offer both emotional and practical/legal advice and support and are very well trained and will stick with you. though I'm glad to hear you have made an appt with the rights of women org.

also glad to hear the GP is closely following your physical situation. easy for you to worry, particularly when all hell is breaking loose in your personal life xx

Thanks x

I don't intend on talking to P (or ex-P by the looks of it) about custody stuff at all, just about our relationship. Predictably he did not call me last night and is still hiding out at his mums. Won't speak to me when he drops kids off and he has a good reason then cause they are in earshot. But he won't call me or talk to me at all, despite him doing wrong. It's cruel. I have begged him to just phone me and end it as that's obviously what he wants, but nope he is being cold and cruel and I'm sort of just waiting for him to do it. I've made a promise to myself this morning after another night's broken sleep that if he doesn't talk to me or come back by Sunday, I will end it for good. This is too hard for my sanity.

Have taken kids food shopping tonight, so at least one positive thing I guess.

Nothing so far from MIL from hell.

I am a bit shy about calling Women's Aid about the relationship as although he is being cruel at the moment, I'm fully prepared to end things with him if things do not drastically change asap, and it's probably already over. Would they be able to help with the scary custody situation though? I do fear he will turn on me if we do end up splitting.If we are together he wouldn't as he would lose me obviously, but I think if we split then he would have nothing to lose so would side with MIL maybe .

It's like a cold war and it's very hurtful and wearing.

Please do call women's aid and don't be shy about it. Nice you're being the adult in thinking about kids in relation to him. He's not reciprocating and he's pretty much delegated all his parenting responsibilities to him mum. He's married to his mother - she is the other woman and that's the way he wants it.

Play your cards close to your chest.

Yes ring womens aid as they would be able to give you the facts re: what he may or may not 'threaten' you with re: dcs etc.
So armed with those facts you will be less anxious.

Oh gosh - reading your last post about you splitting up and him siding with mil. He's with her now. Splitting up would not change his wierd loyalty to her at all would it.

I understand you're wary of a fight - but there's a fight right now.

I do hope you find some headspace.

Hi OP, just wanted to add my support and give you my immediate impressions just to (hopefully) add a bit more grist to your mill - when I read that bit about your MIL deciding to keep your DC at hers for another night and not even telling you until you phoned, let alone asking you - I was beyond gobsmacked. Nobody does that to a mother. Nobody who's not deranged, abusive or evil.

I agree with all the other comments you've had about the way they're together undermmining you as a mother, almost taking away your identity as a mother - this is really awful.

Really glad to see from the thread that you are taking steps and starting to fight back and like I say I'm just posting to add my voice to those that say this isn't on and you are absolutely right to take action and firm action. Yy to stopping using her for childcare. And if your P has a problem with that, then maybe that will be the time for him to find out that as their mother, your voice has to be listened to.

Easier said than done, I know! But you're on the right track and I just wanted to send you some more support to add to all that's on here already. It does sound very, very grim with your P now, and I do feel for you to be going through so much.

Just one more thing, I have no contact with my own family either so I know it is hard to be without that support, but it's not crucial. But I suspect you know that already.

Take care and good luck.

oh do call womens aid Verge! they are so approachable - you don't give your last name or any details about yourself, you just talk. or cry. or ask questions, which they answer. they are there for you - they are wonderful (and they really know their stuff).

I'm sorry he is putting you through absolute hell at the moment - what he is doing (or not doing ) is SO painful((hug)). sorry to be sloppy but I know how incredibly painful it is.

please have a look out for some domestic abuse support groups (as this is what you are experiencing). I went to one for a few years after I left my marriage - they were a total lifesaver. there's nothing like meeting other women who know exactly what it's like so you don't have to explain. it's also a revelation bcs you think you're the only one when it happens to you but the stories are uncannily similar.

keep going Verge - you've done amazingly well so far in a tremendously difficult situation. it won't stay like this btw - this too shall pass. it always does.

well done for getting to the shops tonight. how's your health btw? have you mentioned your domestic situation to your GP, or anyone in RL?

Just want to send my support and blessings, I hope you have been to docs?
Do ring Women's Aid, you will get great support. Read through the advice you have been given on this thread.
You will get through this, you know you are in the right and though you are hurting now life will be SO much better.

Thanks so much for your support

I'm still pretty sad and sort of heartbroken, but less stressed (although I'm sure there is more to come). I will look into other childcare for DS but as I don't drive it would maybe be a logistical nightmare trying to get DD to school and DS to childminder and pick them both up in different places. DD's afterschool CM only has very limited sessions just now (I asked her - she would be ideal as just round the corner). I can't take time off as no savings and employees to pay )-:

I told another friend today, she said she will call me tonight, and I have a homestart worker also tonight which Health Visitor allocated to me when I had bad health during preg with DS.

When I'm busy and occupied I'm ok but in quiet moments my heart just breaks. I could not imagine seeing my kids on 'visitation' like an absent parent. They might think I left them (and no doubt MIL would insinuate it to them). I understand P has as much right as me so I would be willing for joint custody, but don't know why I want to remain so fair to him when he is not to me at all . I panicked a bit last night just thinking about being separated from kids and how bad that would be.

Will try to call women's aid tomorrow but don't think it's free from a payg mobile and i don't have a house phone

xx

Verge - you talk like you're going to 'lose' custody of them.

I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. I reckon you've been made to feel very scared by dh and mil and talking to women's aid will put you straight on many things.

Your story resonates as my dh and mil were like this (she lives overseas) - they still are a degree and support each other in this. I did once have an argument with her about this and then suddenly I'm the bitch and she's the victim. She has backed off to a degree however. But when you have people liek this in your life you do feel bullied and start to doubt your own judgement.

Talk to women's aid as soon as you can as you sound scared and they can put you straight.

Learn to drive - you'll feel empowered.

Hi I dont like the terminology but I heard you say about your partners relationship with your mum being odd well my partner had a similar relationship with his mum and I found this However when I showed this to my partner he agreed and stopped treating his mums feelings as being the most important thing. However my partner had none of the other issues your partner does and I still think you should leave and get some space but I thought the link may help you understand that this is not your fault . Sorry if I am way off and it is not what has happend in your partners family.

When I say I dont like the terminology I was refering to the link and not you

I couldn't get that link crawling as it was blocked. shame, bcs it sounds useful.

agree Verge that you sound already defeated ie that your P and MIL will take your children. I assure you that it is unusual for this to happen (my situation was very different to yours). sorry, I'm going to say again to please contact womens aid to talk, get a strategy, look into seeing a lawyer so you can legally put some things in place to make it clear that they can't withold your children against your will - the law takes a very dim view of anyone who does this. lawyer or not, he can't do this!

I've also been thinking that, finances etc permitting, you might take a condensed driving course to get you on the road asap?

as you get things in place to address your feelings of disempowerment you will begin to feel stronger and more hopeful. how did the mtg with rights for women go?

here is another It might be because what the link is for is emotional incest so your security may block it but it is not about physical incest so nothing nasty.

Sorry second link is to a book someone is selling I am not advertising honest .

Emotional incest is when a child is brought up to believe they are responsible for a parents feelings. The child is placed in a position of responsibility similar to the emotional needs shared between partners. Confiding worries, fears to your child. encouraging your child to cheer the parent up and do anything to make the parent smile.
Very few cases can develop into incest but most dont and each case varies n severity.

This usually impacts the childs personal relationships when a adult and they have trouble with boundrarys also can have sexual dsyfunction and place to much importance on the parents emotions.

Oh and OP - what I also forgot to say is that I also have very similar feelings about me and sex and it quite honestly started when dh overtly started showing his loyalty to mil by way of marginalising me and my contribution to the marriage and this started during the pregnancy when he pretty much started to ignore me yet he and mil were conversing on the phone loads and deciding when he's bring her over to 'help me'. No reference or discussion with me about my possible needs or wants.

Could your bedroom issues be to do with his infidelity? By infidelity I mean his non loyalty to you, his partner and the mother of his children?

Rights of Women appointment went ok. They have advised me to -

1. Not show my hand at all, even if P does end up coming back
2. Log all messages, incidents etc
3. If they refuse for me to pick up children, then go to get them anyway. If they do not allow me access to collect them, the law will take very dim view of this.
4. Make sure neither of them (especially MIL) have DC for more than 3 nights per week.
5. I shouldn't stop MIL watching DS as long as it's not more than 50% of the time unless I have serious concerns about neglect, abuse etc, as court would not look favourably on that unless a good reason for the children to be kept away.
6. Do not allow DS to be enrolled any more than his current 2 sessions at the nursery beside MILs home.
7. Go to my own lawyer
8. If me and P split then get my lawyer to draw up an agreement proposing reasonable visitation for P to see DC straight away so he doesn't do it first.

So very informative and took ages with me explaining things which was lovely.

I can't afford to learn to drive right now unfortunately as I'm self-employed and business is quiet at the moment. As soon as things (hopefully) pick up though I will definitely do that.

P is still there (surprise surprise) but he said he is coming to talk to me on Sunday night. hasn't said anything about him or MIL wanting DC this weekend.

I'm feeling a bit better now I have at least some facts.

xxx

Thanks very much for the info re- emotional incest. I'm not sure if it is that. Definitely a weird and unhealthy dynamic, and I think P see his mother as a bit unstable and needing 'protected' from things, and he will not have a bad word said about her, he idolises her. Most adult children can pick a few negative traits they see in their parents - I can see a good few in mine and accept them as they are human, but it's almost as if to him she is some kind of Demi-God although he is not nice to her at times.

I don't know where the sex problems come from. Partly my body-image, partly growing apart due to arguments and his long working hours and also obviously his disrespect of me as a person in my own right and a mother. He is so shut off and cold to me although I'm 99% certain there is no-one else.

Verge you can also try ringing The Samaritans if you just need to talk. It is important that you stay strong. You are DC's mother and should have final say over them. MIL should have no say as they are not her children. No way should she decide to keep children overnight without you agreeing it beforehand - that is kidnapping!! Good Luck.

glad somebody said the 'k' word - bcs that's what it is.

glad the appt went well with rights of women Verge. sounds like they have given you some strong strategies - I like that they have advised you not to show your hand; also it must have helped a lot to tell the whole story and get it all out to a sympathetic ear. you do sound more upbeat - brilliant. how do you feel about the 'talk' on sunday now?

I'm still very wary of seeing him. I'm not scared of him though (well other than the custody things, otherwise I am not scared of him)
I'm scared of having my heart broken. That probably sounds really immature, but I just mean that when he says he will "talk" to me about something in the past , it usually means he says his part (have to coax it out of him), he sits with head down sort of waiting for me to get my part over with. then that's it - discussion finished and he will be itching to do something else - watch tv, go to pub, go shopping, wherever. He sees it like, we have both had our say, that's it finished. No resolutions or understanding reached.

It is very frustrating.

I won't show my hand about the DC thing - I will tell him though that if he doesn't start respecting my right to have equal say with him re-parenting (in general terms) and not his mother, I will be initiating a spilt. Ditto if there is a repeat of the AWOL episode, or if he refuses to discuss this with me without walking out. No doubt he will tell me that he needs me to be less confrontational, not make sly comments at him etc.

I really do mean it this time. This is the longest we have not really spoken for, and considering he is/was being so childish about it I guess it does not bode well.

I have managed this week without him, nothing has fallen apart, all household routines been done, have been to work, have had conversations with people. I suppose this isn't so bad after all, although I have been feeling lonely if I dwell on it.

so, Verge - how many times has he put you through hell like this? ie along these lines? re DAYS of agony, not knowing what is going on, rug pulled out from under you.

then, from what you are saying, he may well, on sunday, do the 'decent' thing.. then carry on as though nothing happened ... when you've been in absolute bits with, along with everything else, an absent husband, the agony of waiting for him, having to fight to get your kids at home and in their own beds and night; then the terrifying threat of losing your kids; which all caused some very heavy panic attacks, plus some strong physical symptoms of extreme stress. and you'[re supposed to pretend it's all over, all forgotten - no talk, no resolution: he's home, that's all that matters. headfuck, absolute headfuck (if you'll excuse the language). my dear, your husband is an abuser. Abusers do this type of thing - seriously mess with your life and your head, drag you around in the most frightening way, withold, punish, undermine, rip the rug out from under you (so you STAGGER), threaten what is important to you.. then pretend it all didn't happen or matter, just like that, like a switch: on. now off. now on.

btw really can't see what is 'immature' about being afraid of having your heart broken. the thought of getting your heart broken - or being really hurt - is frightening, period. to anybody and everybody, whatever age. do you mean you are frightened of the kind of terrifying stuff he does to your head? yes, so would I be Verge .

He has never refused to speak to me properly for as long as this, although he very rarely apologises for anything he has ever done wrong, just disappears for a short time and expects everything to have blown-over by the time he gets back. Never as long as this though.

I know what you mean in a way - when I asked him to phone me although he did not have a phone - he could use payphone? he said "no phone - no phone call, see you tomorrow" and when MIL didn't want kids brought back and I said "I'm coming to pick them up at 5.45" He said "Not an option" etc. Sort of like - Discussion over. Full stop. Because he has decided it is.

He is not always like that, but I suppose they never are.

I do recognise the stonewalling etc, but although I get upset and defeated (what I mean by scared) I don't feel abused, as I am in a position to leave him fairly easily and I am prepared to do so. I don't want to give up on something there is a chance of saving, but I am ready to leave him if these things do not improve. I don't know if he is capable of change. I suppose that is why i don't feel abused because I KNOW I will leave. Oh I don't know, it is really confusing. I am not scared of him, but I am terrified of him and his mum trying to get custody of DCs.

Will see what he says, but I have promised myself that if he disrespects me again like that (ie jumping out to football when I'm trying to talk to him for the first time in over a week about important issues) , I'm not going to start a huge fight where I will end up feeling guilty, I'm, just going to leave.

leave him I mean, for my own sanity, not just leave the room.