On verge of nervous breakdown with P and his mother.....

[vergeofbreakdown]

Hello, I have namechanged from my usual more silly name as I fear this may get a bit recognisable.

I'm at the end of my tether with the issues in my relationship (2 young DC) and the way I feel my MIL compounds them.

I guess this is a sort of cry for help. I have been leaning on a very good friend from work, but I cannot just keep burdening her. Looking for opinions on what I can do as she is remaining pretty sympathetic but impartial. Although she is "my" friend she has met P a few times so obviously doesn't want to say anything really bad against him.

Basically my P is (mostly) a good man and 95% of the time reliable and does help with housework etc. We have some problems where he thinks I'm too confrontational and our sex life is strained as I have body-issues not related to him but they make me really shy and almost scared of sex. He drinks a couple of cans of lager a few times a week after DC in bed which I have no problem with (I drink on weekends) , but if he goes out with mates he sometimes doesn't know when to stop and ignores responsibilities the next day which is a huge problem for me. Maybe happens once every 2 months, but still not good enough.

Last night he was going to watch something on his mates Sky after he finished work at 11pm and stay the night there as he was taking the car. MIL had DCs overnight. He was to sober up by morning and collect DC's at teatime. However he phoned his mum in morning to ask her to bring them down on train (she doesn't drive, and he has our car) as he was still drinking (at 8am!!!!). She just does it like a total doormat . It is the same with everything. He just relies on her to pick up the pieces with his own responsibilities and she just lies down and takes it. It drives me insane. He drives me insane.

But every time we set down boundaries as a family of 4 she will undermine me.
For example, P works long hours with the firm paperwork etc and I also work. We were never seeing each other because of his long hours and I felt like he was missing his DC growing up. So eventually after much heated discussions we agreed he would take at least 1 day off a week to be with us. When we were visiting his mother, she asked why he wasn't doing any overtime and he told her what we had agreed. She said "Nonsense! Men who work never see their families - that's life" Then she turned to me and said "Do you want him to be a house-husband or something? I'll bet your dad was working when you were young, don't talk nonsense!"

I was

She makes comments about how she things childminders are unsafe for children and wrong IN FRONT OF MY DD WHO ATTENDS AN AFTERSCHOOL CM!!!

She looks after the youngest when me+P are working then if I don;t like a descion she has made unilaterally (with or without P) she tells me that I should be a SAHM then if I want to have have all the say in my child's life!

She calls me when she can't get P on the phone and she is hysterical if my phone is off for a couple of hours. Saying things like "I just want to speak to my son" . When I ask "are you ok?" or "what is the problem?" she will say something like "It's a private and personal matter between me and my son" - Well why the f are you phoning me then?!

She seems to think I'm some money-grabbing bitch who is trying to use her son when actually he is the one who is not taking his responsibilities seriously at times!

I bit my tongue for so long as she looks after the DC a lot and seems to adore them. But recently I can't take any more. Today I told her she is enabling him by taking on his responsibilities for him and that it's not good for anyone, least of all him. All I got back were replies from him and her that I was to apologise for "abusing" her!

She was meant to be bringing my DC back at 6pm. Waited til 7.15 then phoned her. She then announced she is just going to put them to bed there as she is worried about P as he called from callbox to say he "fell asleep on bus and his phone got stolen" (what a load of utter bollocks i replied and asked why nobody had bothered to contact me after my work finished at 5.30), then got the reply "Stop calling my son a liar, listen you to me lady don't contact me again bad mouthing my son" and now she won't tell me where he is.

This doesn't happen often with P but this is really making me lose respect for him totally and I think I want us to split because of it. Although he won't ever talk about it because his mother reassures him that "you don't need to answer to anyone son"

It happens with her all the time though. She said to me last week that all I care about is money and children should come first!

I try to be strong but I'm just getting swamped by it all. The whole situation is making me physically ill. Sweats, shakes, feeling dizzy/faint, sick a lot etc. If I stand up to him, we can usually work through issues if I make it clear I won't tolerate such-and-such and he will change it (ie-the no days off thing) but if I stand up to her I just get dogs abuse from both of them telling me to stop "bullying" her.

I'm so confused and just don't know what to do. I feel almost like I'm not allowed a say in my own children's lives sometimes.

Sorry about extreme length of post. Helped to get it all out !

When you say you are all from the same culture, can I just ask if this is english culture or not. Simply because it doesnt sound it to me from what you have said.

The MIL should not be able to exert this sort of bullying power over you, and she sounds an utter control freak who, along with your husband who appears spinless towards his mother, and an utter arse with no respect for you.

I would get the kids and be out of there to be honest. Sooner rather than later.

no matter what else happens between you and your DH, please get your kids away from your mil! If she is caring for them, she has another way to get at you, she has a reason to keep herself really involved, and worst of all, she is setting a terrible example for them! What if your DC start treating you badly, or speaking badly of you, because of her? If you can get her out of the equation, you and your DH can focus on his drinking, and your bedroom worries....dealing with one, will likely help with the other, iyswim?
I really hope you can get some help with this.

I agree and thank Jusdad for answering me x

Mamas12 DC are 5 and 2.

I never wanted it to turn out like this

She is bringing eldest this morning so I can take her to school then get to work. Still haven't heard from P , although he is probably at hers getting pampered and breakfast dutifully made for him by her. Makes me sick tbh.

I wish it was P dropping her off as I'm not as apprehensive of him as I am of her. She is completely irrational and makes out like whatever I say to her is bullying her, when all I'm trying to do is assert myself re- my own children and relationship (if you could call it that).

Why am I so bloody nervous of a 60 year old woman? Think I really need to be much more assertive with regards to children.

Tonight I will contact her early before I finish work to say that if P is not bringing children down after his work at 6 then I am coming to get them on bus.

Was up half the night thinking about what to do about this situation. Even got as far as worrying what I would do legally if they both decided they were keeping the children there. Obviously neither of them respect me as a mother so I guess it is a possibility.

I wish P would contact me to at least have a short discussion about what the hell is happening. I can't get him as that guy who found is phone obviously still has it. Wish he would just fucking grow up and stop hiding in his mother's house, which she is happily enabling him to do.

Better go to get ready for work now and got doctors too about worrying leg-swelling thing.

No we are all British.

I think there is weird co-dependency going on where she is terrified of losing P as he is her life (she has no friends and has never had a partner since his dad left) so she is willing to condone and even reward almost any bad behaviour from him. Think he has learned since he was a teenager (actually scrub that - since he was a very young child) that she will put up with anything not to 'lose' him, and he has therefore never really grown-up and stopped trying to provoke a reaction from her or expecting her to bail him out all the time. In turn he idolises her despite this (they idolise each other) and he is absolutely terrified of anything happening to her. I mean, we all are terrified of anything happening to our parents but he is more so iyswim.

It has only been recently that P has been so disloyal to me. There have been times in the past he has stood up to her when she has made nasty comments about me, or told her where to go when she has interfered. Maybe it is indictive of us growing apart that he has decided to 'go back' to her and in a way split out family unit up without actually saying as such as he is now joining with her to undermine me.

He responds a lot better to me with regards to making family decisions and resolving arguments than he does his mother. Not great as he tends to run away but if forced will talk about stuff and make changes, I feel we could perhaps get on almost normally if not for his mother.

But I can't really make out if it's worth persevering with him , if we have anything worth saving, or if he is actually behind a lot of this as well, and I really should tell them both where to go and be prepared to put up a huge fight for even 50/50 access to my children (he is a lawyer)

So, where is he now? Aren't you worried, or are you convinced that he is at the MIL's?

Not much advice to give, except you need to learn to drive. It will give you some independence.

She brought eldest DC back to go to school and said he in fact didn't turn up at hers either.

What the fuck makes him think he can go off awol on benders, however infrequent, and leave everyone else to deal with his children. She will just condone it though, even though she has been the one most put out.

I just can't cope with this any more. What is point of me agreeing things with him if she condones them?

I feel like never speaking to him agian at the moment

I would be so tempted to throw him out and send him to live back with his mum.

I think you must ring women's aid...because a woman is trying to steal your kids, even if she is your MIL, she is gradually stealing your children! You don't look after someone's kids then give conditions on when you give them back! If this goes on unchecked, one day she WON'T give them back...and your DH will back her up, and I think inside you know this.

And your husband doesn't think this is wrong...it is horrible and she is mad as a hatter.

Please ring women's aid. the whole set up is appalling for you and your children. What is she saying to them behind thier mother's back? They are your children, and she is a danger to their mental health, and yours.

please don't think it is extreme for someone to steal your children OP - unfortunately, it isn't (it has happened to me ). she is also withholding your children against your will - the law will take a dim view of that.

what you have described about the relationship between OH and his mother is incest - it is (at least) an emotionally incestuous relationship. maybe he has reached a crisis (hence out of control behaviour) but to disentangle himself from her (if he wants to!) will take some serious, long term therapy on his part (imo).

I strongly urge you to contact womens aid and to research careful strategies for the current situation but also in preparation for if you should decide to get out of the marriage. as, apart from the situation being really quite alarming, he is a lawyer and you need to be well-armed and supported should the shit hit the fan.

regardless, please contact womens aid and study their website - also, research as much as you can about domestic abuse. you don't have to be hit to be the victim of domestic abuse.

try to stay calm but inwardly resolute in your dealings with her from now on - don#'t engage with her re arguing/fighting (don't answer her accusations). get your children back and don't let them go there again for the forseeable - make plausible excuses. I think she is the villain of the piece for now - deal with OH when he shows up but please, in the meantime, get armed with support and info.

hope things went well at the docs.

What everyone else has said - this may not be physically violent, but it is definitely an abusive relationship.

Not only that, you are being abused by both your P and your MIL. And I'm sorry to say, your DC are likely getting drip fed abusive crap from your MIL.

It would be very difficult for your MIL to steal your DC, but (depending on circumstances) not impossible. They are your DC, and they habitually reside in your house.

You need to take back control of yourself and your life.

Yes, you may well have issues that have contributed to this. But they need to be put aside for now.

The current issues are your DC, and the abusive relationship you have with you P and MIL.

For that, you need to speak to Women's Aid - they are excellent, and will guide you through from where you are through the options available to where you want to get to.

Always remember, no matter what the adults in this have been through or are carrying as their issues, your DC do not deserve to have those issues visited upon them. They deserve a mother who isn't being abused, a father who actually spends time with them, and a granny who doesn't use them for her own means.

As soon as you start to take back control and arm yourself with solid information, you will become calmer, and you will find the means and strength within yourself to deal with this.

Finally, keep a diary of what's going on - it may help to get it out of your system, and it will certainly help should / when this goes to court.

no it isn't unusual to have your children stolen JJ, using stealthy, toxic manipulation, using their hearts and minds. MIL has already proved she is the master of it OP - not just with her son but tying you up in knots, seriously messing with your head, so you even question if you have a right to make decisions etc about your own children, marriage and family. even if the DC have not heard anything said outright, they will unfortunately be imbibing the abusive, toxic environment. when you're in it you cna't believe it could possibly be that bad or that damaging - but it is that bad and that damaging imo.

I'm not sure where the abusive bit is coming from that people have mention, I can't see that.

What I see is a pathetic man who can't stick up for his wife or take responsibility for anything. It's actually rather creepy how he won't let you stick up for youself with her either! It sounds like the two of them are trying to cut you out of you dcs lives, like you and you care you provide and the role you have are nothing. MIL is trying to dot hat definately and he is enabling it.

I think with your MIL you need to distance yourself and the children from her as much as possible (childcare elsewhere) so that she doesn't have so much control over your lives. As for your DH. Serious make or break discussions!

Sorry haven't read all posts so may have repeated, missed the point etc.

I hope you have had a chance to phone womens aid op as you need to talk it out with a rl person one to one about it and realise that we on here are not panic mongers but are concerned that you are being excluded from your childrens lives.

Thanks alot for all your messages of support x

I was at Health Visitor today with DD after school and told her a bit about the situation (in riddles as DD present)

She gave me the number of a Women's Law Centre near me who can advice on all practicalities so I can get myself armed with knowledge. Think I have probably needed to do that for a long time. Got DS back with a struggle as when I turned up P and MIL wanted to keep him overnight as the car seat still at our house. But I said "I'm here now and DD has a game she wants to play with her brother tonight" (she did). So I took them back on bus.

They really are pretty unhealthy (mind-wise I mean). I think P has the capacity to be a bit more normal as unlike his mum who has no-one but him he has had long friendships and relationships before me (surprise surprise his mum hated both of them and one of them actually walked out and got in her car and drove off when MIL was talking, without a word. I assume she was gobsmacked). He has seen more of the world and how things work, but he is still totally dysfunctional. He is now blaming ME for him going AWOL over the weekend. He has not said sorry at all. His mum is making him dinner! Think it is pretty pointless tbh.

Glad to hear you're getting support in RL, Verge.

Very glad to hear you got DS from MIL without too much struggle, too.

Is there anyone around you family or friend wise that you can turn to during all of this?

Can you take some time off work to get some of the immediate practical things sorted eg childcare?

PS - Humanheart - that's just awful for you and your dc, I hope that things are better now for you all.

Thanks JuJusDad ,and HumanHeart, I hope you are ok now too.
My family are not supportive in the slightest, never have been so stopped relying on them years ago unfortunately. I have friends, a couple of whom know and are supportive, texting to see if I'm ok etc, and I have been leaning on them.

Unfortunately I can't take time off work at all unless a life-threatening illness or something as I'm self-employed and have wages to pay to 2 employees, and also my own outgoings. I have very little in savings.

I am really reacting physically to this so much it's strange because I'm actually quite calm and practical about the situation mentally. Tonight I had a panic attack (I think) out of nowhere. My heart started pounding, and I had to concentrate to breathe (?), whole body going stiff then relaxing, then stiff again, chest pains, shivering and chattering as if it was -15 when it is warm in house. I lay down but when I got up it started again with my heart seeming to believe it was under extreme physical exertion from just getting off the chair! It lasted about 10 mins but I'm still shivery and shaking a bit, chest still sore., and I feel really exhausted since, like I have just completed 16-hour-shift except I haven't done much today been lying on setee for 10 mins!

Can anyone confirm that this is indeed a panic attack? don't really know. I had the same thing except milder on Sunday on the bus when this whole thing really kicked off.

The doctor said to stop taking my pill as I have been getting weird pains in my legs (before this), sort of in the veins and along with the dizziness, chest pains etc he is doing blood test for a possible (but unlikely)clot caused by the pill. But actually I'm thinking I just have strange pains in my legs completely unrelated to the other symptoms, which may be due to anxiety / stress?

eeek.

Verge, you really need to speak to a doctor about your health- it might well be a panic attack but you need a diagnosis from a medical professional, not us!

Sounds as though you are coping really well otherwise, well done you for taking control of the situation with the children. And always remember , when P and MIL are trying to make you doubt yourself, that it is not you who is behaving strangely. The effects of your MIL's childcare is plain to see in your partner's behaviour- bear that in mind when you are considering whether she should be in charge of your children.

You should definitely use the support contacts that the health visitor has given- they might well be able to advise about financial support that you may be entitled to. And don't hesitate to contact Women's Aid- as others have said, P and MIL don't have to be hitting you for their behaviour to be abusive. Good luck Verge :)

Thanks. I will tell the doctor when I go back tomorrow x

hello verge - good to see the children are back. make sure you don't let them go there again eh - if at all possible. dont let the diabolical duo trick you into what you don't want to do.

as for the panic attack - yes it sounds like it, but you must, as inertia says, check this out with your GP. re panic attack: it is your body's way of protecting you but your body is getting the wrong signals and is pumping adrenalin into your system for the 'emergency' (re: fight or flight mechanism). it usually gets that message through your breathing, which is very probably very shallow (panting), or held/erratic which makes your body think there's a threat on (which there is! but not a physical threat). best thing to do is concentrate as often as you can on your breathing - breathe deeply, down to your stomach (not your shoulders), a long, slow breath. do this often and it will turn off the unhelpful adrenalin trigger. shallow breathing also makes it hard to think straight, limbs tingle, tight chest etc. I think you are under a tremendous amount of stress and it is no wonder your body is reacting (as mine did when I read your original post). I would get your GP onside - try to be as broadly frank as you can about the situation if you feel you can trust him/her, but at least let him/her know that you are under a lot of pressure domestically and it is making you feel ill. (sorry to be prescriptive! I just think that when we are in crisis it is hard to think of obvious things - don't mean to be patronising). I would also suggest herbal stuff to support you eg Kalms and St johns wort - really good for calming you down. you say you are mentally calm - which is fantastic (rah rah rah!) but the stress is coming out in your body - the herbal stuff will help with that. your GP may have other things to suggest too.

sorry oh is still being an idiot. for now, concentrate on you and the kids, survival mode. keep posting xx

I have had very severe panic attacks and they can cause all sorts of weird symptoms. The list is endless. Speak to your dr anyway though.

I'm sorry that your DH is a mummies boy, nightmare! Mine isn't but won't stick up for me with his family. He has said he will (I recently made me feelings very clear after several years of nothing improving) and he said next time a situation occurs he will say something but I have yet to see it.

OP, still see your doctor, but I think you had to show such strength to bring youngest dc back when they tried to stop you, afterwards when it was safe to do so, you had a panic attack. After a crisis to do with exh, especially to do with the children, I often get pains everywhere, including legs, back, neck, migraines. I think it is to do with the adrenalin your body provides for stength, and the tension and worry. Your situation is far worse, they are actively trying to take your dcs away, not just threatening to. They kept them at her house without even letting you know, until you 'phoned. How cruel to a mother, keeping her children from her. And what about the DCs feelings, having to stay the night with mad old grandma instead of you. And yes it is abusive to keep a mother's children away from her.

Tell the school MIL is not allowed to pick them up. Take her off the list. Same with after school club. Tell them she is no longer allowed to pick them up. If there is a password to pick up from after school club, change it.

I don't know what other advice to give. Except you are not imagining things, they are acting like you do not matter and trying to take away your children from you. Call Women's Aid. They are experts.

just read this and completely agree with the others. you sound like a very rational intelligent person but due to insecurity etc find it hard to be rude and therefore are playing with an uneven hand.

you shouldnt have to make an excuse for your child to come home, you should just be able to collect as you decide. this is NOT healthy and for your children you need to act and be decisive.

every time you feel gui;ty etc think of them and just take your emotions out of this and take control back.

we are here for support but also tell friends and talk about this. the more you talk the more irratinal and bizarre it will seem to you, that is a GOOD thing...

come on, you can do this
xxxxxx

I agree, tell friends, tell people who seem nice but are just aquaintences, tell school. We are strangers and we care. Think what support you could get in real life. I found much support just from people I saw on small talk or even nodding terms walking around to shops, school etc.(one good thing about not having a car or being able to drive) (for other matters to do with now exh). I wished I had said something earlier. You need RL people on your side who see things how they really are.

Thank you x

Of course I will fight tooth and nail for my kids, but I think my failing relationship with P and my hurt about that is making me a bit FLAT and worn-out and weepy. I don't feel very strong at the moment. But I am sure of myself in that I will not let them take children away.

I have an appointment at that rights of women law centre on Thursday and I will get all the advice I can get. I know not to work so much that P automatically becomes main carer, but that is about all I know.

Today P was watching DS. I can't take them away from him as he is their father - really would not sit right with me, although MIL a different story. He has not been staying here since Friday though (Sat and Sun at friends and last night at his mums) and still has no phone.

I had to get my feelings out re- our relationship (didn't reveal anything about his mother etc) so I wrote him a letter in my lunch break and gave it to him tonight. Apparently he is going to get a new phone tonight from Tesco so he will hopefully reply. He is still only blaming me, said he only cares about kids and not me etc and while I'm fully prepared to end this or let it end forever, but I still have that teeny bit of hope. I wish he would just end things properly with me, say he is never coming back etc (he still has keys) then I would feel upset and hurt but relieved. I don't seem to want to put in the final death-knell myself cause I still love him, but rapidly realising it is pointless. He said he would phone me tonight when he gets the new phone, keep checking it pathetically. Really down about that tonight )-: although DD made me a card so that did cheer me up a bit (-:

Blood test results not back yet, to go back tomorrow. Don't know if I'm blowing it all out of proportion, but I'm a bit worried about it. Woman at last pill check said twice "and if you get any pains in your legs, etc etc, go to doctors immediately" and I've heard left one is the most common for clots. Maybe just a hyperchondriac . They never told me whether or not to stop taking pill but I didn't on Sun or Mon to be cautious but took it tonight as I will get a period if I miss more than 2 (sorry if TMI!)

MIL called me tonight at 6pm

"Is C there?"

I said - "Baby C?" >P and DS have same name<

"NO C MY SON!" said in a really nasty tone of voice.

Bloody witch. I'm starting to try and detach a bit from her now though. She made me angry tonight, but not as much as I usually am, I just said "No sorry. he just left" and hung up.

It's like she is angry at P for even bringing back DS and chasing him to see what was happening / had he brought DS back to me / had P left yet etc.

Suppose when he gets a phone she will call him. Maybe he has told her we are splitting up and he is moving back to her's permanently (wish he would tell me) and she is trying to ensure he does not come back to me. Sounds crazy but something I wouldn't put it past her.

Grr. Will try to get a bath and something to eat and some sleep now DC in bed.

I feel really pathetic now reading that stuff back about how I am waiting on P to decide if it's over. I don't mean it as literally as that, I just mean that if he ends it I will be relieved I'm not in limbo any more. I would try again with him as I do still love him, but NOT at any cost. If he ever did anything like going AWOL or sided with his mother against me / cited her as an authority on our parenting again I would leave him. I know that now. I have been through enough already. I can't just end it myself whilst I still have that hope though, however redundant it is

Sorry for long rambly post