I don't want this baby

[CinnabarRed]

I would really appreciate your help to get my thoughts together. I?d also like to hear from anyone who?s been in a similar situation; what decision you made and whether you regretted it. I also know that hthere are women out there who would give their right arm for a baby, and I'm sorry to anyone who finds this insensitive,

I found out on Saturday that I?m pregnant. We thought we were being sufficiently careful (my periods hadn?t come back after I stopped breastfeeding DS2 in November, and we were using condoms) but clearly not careful enough. My best guess based on how pregnant I feel is that I?m about 6 weeks.

Background: DP and I have been together for six years, and have two children (DS1 is 3.2 years and DS2 is 9 months). My pregnancy with DS1 was very complicated, and I was incredibly fortunate to get to term and give birth to a happy, healthy baby. However, I suffered severe PND, and neither DP nor I really realised how bad it was (we both thought it was normal for new mothers to feel emotional) in time to seek help at the time. DP thinks that it took me a good 18 months to get back to being me, which feels right to me too.

After counselling, I had to courage to try for another baby. We were lucky, I fell pregnant straight away, my pregnancy was textbook and trouble-free, and DS2 is the most wonderful baby I could want. However, I again had severe PND. We had hoped that I wouldn?t after a very easy pregnancy, but if anything I was worse than with DS1 (I was suicidal the second time round). The difference this time was we knew to seek help and my GP, HV and the local mental health team were brilliant. I started on ADs when DS2 was 8 weeks old and am still taking them now.

I love my boys and DP more than anything. But I find the thought of another baby horrifying.

From a purely practical perspective, there?s no reason to worry. We would be fine financially, we have enough bedrooms for all three, childcare would be manageable. DP and I have a good, loving, respectful relationship.

DP was raised Catholic, although he isn?t a regular churchgoer. However, his faith gives a quiet and constant flavour to his thinking and moral compass. When we first met and were talking hypothetically about children he told me that he couldn?t continue a relationship with someone who had an abortion. He?s older and wiser now, and having seen me struggle so much with the DSs has said that he loves me enough to respect whatever decision I make. But I worry that if I did decide to terminate this pregnancy he might not be able to come to terms with it. To him, abortion would be the same as killing a little DS1 or DS2.

But my head is so muddled; I don?t know what I would do even if DP?s feeling weren?t in the equation. I?m not sure which of my thoughts are sensible and which are selfish. In no particular order, my fears are:

• Getting PND again. I don?t know if I could survive falling back into that suicidal pit of despair again.

• I really felt our family was complete. It felt right when DS2 came along (despite the subsequent PND) in a way that it didn't with just DS1.

• Things are just getting easier again. DS2 is starting to sleep through and is in a routine, DS1 is potty training well. I don?t know if I have the mental or physical energy to start again with night feeds and exhaustion.

• It would be the final nail in the coffin for career progression. I work in one of those professions where youth is overvalued and you need to have made it before 40 if you?re ever going to. I derive a great deal of satisfaction and self-worth from my career. I?ve only been back from maternity leave with DS2 for 2 weeks.

• DS2 would only be 17 months (or thereabouts) when the new baby comes. That?s still a baby himself. He deserves more time as the centre of my world.

• DS1 has been brilliant with DS2. We?ve had so little sibling upset. Surely we couldn?t be that lucky again? Why rock a very happy apple cart? I'm happy as we are.

• I?m getting on a bit. I feel like we dodged two bullets in having two happy, healthy babies (we didn?t take up the usual antenatal screening tests because DP?s faith meant we knew we would keep both pregnancies even if there was a problem).

• We?ve just employed a lovely nanny. She?d been out of work for several months and is so happy to have found a permanent job. We couldn?t afford to keep her on while I was on maternity leave with the new baby.

But in any case, I don?t know if I could go through with an abortion. I can?t imagine what it would be like to actually take the pills, knowing what would happen as a result. Maybe I can come to love this baby. Maybe if I have him/her then in a year?s time I?ll be thanking my lucky stars that I didn?t have an abortion. I don?t know.

Thank you for listening. Sorry for rambling.

I won?t be able to come back on line today, but will check in this evening. Please don?t think I?m ignoring you.

I am sorry that you find yourself in such a difficult situation. I can only tell you of my own experience.I had a termination at the age of 19(dh and I had only been together 6 months,both still at uni).Was pressured into having abortion and I have regretted it ever since. Had loads of complications with subsequent pregnancies which were directly related to the abortion.I am very very lucky to have the dcs I have now.
On the other hand my pregnancy with dc 3 was unplanned and we really really couldnt afford to have another child(money problems,no space in home etc). I actually hoped that I would have a miscarriage and that the desicion would be taken out of my hands. I am very ashamed to admit that now as dc 3 is a little star and I couldnt imagine life without him. I found I came to terms with having him after having an amnio.Made me realsie that no matter how tough it was going to be I did really want this baby.
Tbh if you are already coming off your meds(and I did it with dc too) and taking folic acid then your mind is already made up.Think you just need time to get over the shock and to get all the advice you need re the pnd.Good luck.

CinnabarRed, I'm very glad you've managed to arrange an appointment to see your GP, what with the ADs etc :)

Go and have a chat. I also suspect you need some quiet time away from the pressure of your DH to think about this, I hope that doesn't offend you but I'm a bit at how much of your OP is negative. I can't speak for everyone, but I think that your post comes across as if you want the termination adn just wish someone like your DH would "okay" it. Sorry if that's inaccurate.

For the record, I have had a termination, at 11 weeks. I don't regret mine. It was the result of a consensual relationship and contraception failure, but definitely wasn't a traumatic event which I regret 20 years later. I found the NHS clinic to be very supportive. It probably helped that my partner went with me at the time, and was upset as I was, but realised it was the right decision for me, at that time, in those circumstances. I just thought I'd put this very private information in here to give a mirror view to some of the posters replying here with their stories about how it was the most traumatic thing they ever did - it's not like that for everyone, as long as the decision is being made for the right reasons and you're comfortable with what's going to happen.

Dh said quite frankly if the baby 'made' it there was no way on this earth would he allow me to even consider termination.

I also find comments like these offensive and archaic. Well done if your DH felt he wouldn't have allowed you to have a termination, but that doesn't really seem like good advice to be offering the OP, IMHO.

Like frgr, I wanted to add that my 9 week termination (by way of the pills) was a decision I do not regret at all. I felt some sadness at the time, but within months I felt absolute relief. Just wanted there to be a balanced response here.

I think the suggestion of some sort of counselling is a good one. Your OP does read somewhat that if your DP was on board with termination, that is what you would be inclined to do, so I wonder if some supported talking-it-through would be of help to you.

Hi frgr

It's funny - when I reread my OP it doesn't sound negative to me, but I am definitely in a negative place at the moment. I suspect that there's more truth in your comment that I just want someone to OK my decision than I care to admint. Part of it is that I wish someone could tell me what to do, part is because I really, really don't want another baby.

And thank you (and all the other posters) who have posted very private information. I am very grateful to you (all).

Please understand I only meant negative in the sense that you appear to have made your decision but seem to have to justify it with these practical considerations (mulling them is good, having to defend why you have made it is bad)

it was really this bit that struck me (well, 2 bits) "I find the thought of another baby horrifying... which of my thoughts are sensible and which are selfish"

Please rest assured that there is nothing selfish in doing what is right for your family, your body, your life. Just because it makes practical sense to do one thing doesn't mean it's the right thing (whether to have another child or terminate). You should be as selfish as you want when it comes to getting to the right decision for you. none of us are in your place -who are we to say what is selfish or not? And anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is being a knob :)

Good luck at the GP :)

I also had a termination many years ago that i don't regret. The relationship broke down and i didn't want to cope on my own. Even now, as a mum, I really think if there were issues, such as contraception failure, and I didn't want another, I would do the same again.

I think the fact you titled your post the way you did op says in your heart you are just not ready for this baby. The worry is that you go ahead and have difficulty bonding with the child. As I said earlier, my friend still struggles to love her 'little accident' four years on. It's so sad, for all concerned.

Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best.

I had a termination almost a year ago- have two dcs, dd was just a year old, couldn't face caring for another child.

It wasn't traumatic, either physically or psychologically. I'm not Christian, but come from a very Catholic country, so in a way I have assimilated the negative view of abortion.

You need to think whether you'll be happy to have a baby in 8 months time. What are your views on termination in general? I wouldn't have a child just because my partner did iyswim.

But equally you might feel that despite PND, another career break and more sleepless nights, you will be happy to mother another child.

Wish you all the best.

*because my partner wanted me to

I'm really sorry you have found yourself in this position.

I think, from what you have said, that both of you would regret a termination in the long run - it just doesn't seem like it's something either of you would come to terms with.

I hope your GP help you with AD's. I've never been on them so don't know a lot about them, but one of my very good friends sees a consultant for hers as her GP was a bit crap. Her consultant has been amazing and has helped her with her meds taking into account pregnancy/bereavement/other and it has kept her from the depths of despair that she was in when only seeing her GP.

We are all here because we want to help/be here for you - please don't apologise for posting!

One practical thing - your nanny might be prepared to take a break to do something else that she's always wanted to do or might consider taking another temp job or stay with you but part time. Hopefully you and she could work something out and if not, there are lots of lovely nannies out there.

Whatever you decide, I too, wish you the best x

You sound like a wonderful,loving couple who must be exceptional parents.I was especially touched by your dp's acknowledgement of your predicament.No one can really tell you what to do but it sounds to me as if you would regret a termination more than a baby iyswim.

oh gosh, you poor thing, i don't know what to say. HAving suffered from PND i never ever want to go there again and i am 40 now and will probably not have more children. I thought i wouldnt have more children after DD1 who was 15 when i had DD2, so i had some agonising to do when i was pregnant with DD2. I was just finishing my PhD and had lots of other stuff oing on. But i had DD2 and i am so glad i did. Not saying that i think this should be your decision, your PND is a worry, and you are taking medication still, that is a potential problem for the baby. You need to get some medical advice and soon.

Does your DH know? Thing is, you said that you didn't have any ante natal testing for your first two because of DHs religeon. Is this going to be an issue this time?

At the end of the day i think the major consideration has to be your mental health. Lots of mums have all of your other concerns when faced with an unplanned pregnancy and they go on to be so glad they had another child.

Could you access some counselling relatively swiftly?

What an distressing situation for you and your DH to be in - and as everybody has pointed out, there is no easy 'right' answer . And no compromise...

There has been lots of good and personal advice from others already, but maybe I could add another perspective. I have not been in a situation in which I had to decide to continue a pregnancy or not, but I have a fair bit of experience of talking to people who went ahead with unplanned/unwanted pregnancies and those who terminated. Both scenarios can turn out to be 'right' or 'wrong' for the individual/individual family and here is what I found out determines whether whatever decision was taken was a 'good' one IYKWIM:

• Play devil's advocate. If you had a termination and found you struggled to come to terms with it, how would you cope? What would you do? If you went ahead and continued the pregnancy, how would you deal with a rotten pregnancy/difficult delivery/demanding baby/not bonding with the baby?

• As far as a relationship goes, please, do not base the decision on your partner's feelings - you could either end up resenting him for having 'made' you have an unwanted child, or, even worse IMO and IME, the child for having been 'foisted' upon you.

Equally, do not have a termination because you cannot face the idea of looking after another baby so soon after your last one/career considerations/money worries (I appreciate this is not the main concern for you): take the long view - what would your family look like in 5/10/15 years time?

• re your mental health: I am really glad you have already arranged to see your GP. There are ADs you can (and with your history maybe should) take in pregnancy. If your MH remains good, they can always be reduced to a minimum dose or even stopped in the last trimester to minimise withdrawal in the infant. FWIW, my SIL took Fluoxetine (in quite a high dose) throughout her pregnancy and my niece is just fine. She had also stopped as soon as she found out she was pregnant and nose-dived terribly - it was awful and distressing for all involved .

I have to admit, you having stopped your meds and started folic acid, does sound like your heart has made a decision, no? If your head can follow, all will be well... If OTOH, you decide to terminate, make sure it is a positive decision and not a knee-jerk reaction to 'OMG, I'm pregnant'.
Also much as I hate it to be so, IME, a termination the partner does not support, can cause no end of heartache in the longrun .

I really hope, it all turns out well for you in the end. You have only just found out, get the ball rolling to find out about your options and keep thinking/talking about it. Counselling should be available when you go for your first termination appointment and of course you can change your mind at any time in the proceedings.

Sorry about the epic post .

What a predicament, Cinnabar. Hope you can come to decision that you have peace with.

Whatever you decide, it might be time to consider sterilisation.

After our third, with a history similar to yours, DH decided to get the snip.

I'd get sterilised as well if it weren't an op involving GA and blowing up the abdomen with gas.

((expat, maybe this isn't the right thread, but please google Essure, my older sister lives in Scotland and she has said her local hospital does that now (perm. female sterilisation but doesn't involve GA - she has a fear of not waking up again so is going to book it in last i heard :)) although i don't know where abouts you are in scotland. my sister is in Glasgow, if that helps.))

thanks, fgr. they didn't do it at the time DH had the snip or I'd have had it.

I just wanted to give you all a quick update.

I went to see my GP yesterday. She was great (unlike the receptionist... normally I'm a big supporter of my GPs' receptionists because they do a demanding job with kindness and discretion. But for some reason this one - who is normally the picture of charm - decided to point out to me in a very carrying voice that I didn't have to see a doctor if there are no issues with being pregnant. I had to tell her through gritted teeth that there could be issues; to be fair she looked mortified. I think she remembers me from 9 months ago before I had DS2 so just assumed that I would be thrilled).

Anyhow. My GP agreed with all of you that I should certainly keep taking my ADs. (As it happens, the one I'm already taking is the one recommended during pregnancy - none are 100% safe, but this is the best of the rest, IYKWIM.)

She has also referred me to the BPAS for counselling on 8th February. I spoke to her I told her that I was 99% certain I wasgoing to terminate the pregnancy but I wanted to have one last conversation with DP to make sure he could live with that decision.

DP and I talked again last night. I told him that I wanted a termination but only with the caveat that I would rather have the baby that put our relationship at risk. He hugged me tight and told me how much he loves me, how he would always be here for me, but how sad he feels for our baby. And as he did he started to cry silently into my hair. And I knew then that I can't terminate a baby that's already so loved and wanted.

I'm going to keep my appointment with BPAS on 8th, because I've been swinging in the wind the past few days and I may yet change my mind again. But I woke up this morning with a very clear mind and feeling good!

I have made two stipulations to DP. First, I want us to finally get our act together and get married - I'd be so happy with a registry office do and then lunch with all our friends and family down the local pub, I don't need a big flash wedding with all the organisational hassle that goes with it! Secondly, we have to find a way to keep our lovely nanny while I'm on maternity leave. She's am amazing person, and I worry how I would cope with three under four on my own... Plus the boys love her already (even though she only started in three weeks ago), she's been messed around horribly by past employers, and she really doesn't deserve to have her job security exploded again so soon.

Thank you to everyone who posted or PM'd me. I have been moved to tears by the kindness of strangers, and every single one of you has helped more than I can say.

Not that it was a quick update, I see!

Well done for going to the doctors and for having these very difficult conversations.

I think the plan to try and keep the nanny is excellent - it will give you the time and support that you will need to get back on your feet again, and the freedom to concentrate on yourself should you need to.

Good luck. :)

OP, just read the whole thread and your latest update made me cry. I wish you all the best :)

I hope it all goes well from now on.