Are we doomed?

[Changing2011]

Hi Im sorry but this is going to be long.

I have been with DP for seven years and we have 1 young child. Ours was not an instant love, but things happened quickly in the beginning (moving in, baby etc). Since then things have stalled considerably, but my love for him has grown immensely (possibly due to all we have been through together). I really love him now, but I cant say I loved him in the beginning. He seems to love me more then, and less now.

When we met we had both recently finished LTR and to be fair, I think DP was more bothered than me about finding someone new. He seemed keen to get serious very quickly. I would have liked more of a courtship. But he seemed to hate being single/alone. He as very sweet but not big on the passion side. Sex has always been a little stilted, but we have grown into knowing one another and now, when we have sex we both love it. But I have always had a higher sex drive than him. He likes it a lot abut one week in the month (I swear men have monthly moods as well!) and not at all other times. I prefer more regular sex, but get annoyed when he wants it a lot all at once. He has said in the past it really turns him off if I ask for sex/making love so i dont do that now. It seems the female making any approach doesnt do anything for him and it makes me feel cheap so if he doesnt approach me, we dont do it.

What does annoy me is that he feels the need to grope me in sexual places as a form of affection (he never kisses and cuddles me) and he does this in a jokey way, but I think its a bit cheeky when we are a) not having much sex and b) he doesnt show me more romantic affection which I would dearly love. I do get a bit tetchy with the boob/bum grabbing I must say.

So, the sex is one issue. The main problem is that he uses sex/affection to punish me. I am a busy career mum and run a tight ship at home. He also works full time, but I do expect some help around the house every now and again. Admittedly because I find it quicker and more painless to do things myself, I tend to simmer resentfully and then blow up every so often about his lack of thought around the home (leaving dirty clothes on floor, not knowing the location of the dishwasher, coats in the bedroom, etc etc just general annoying stuff). When I do challenge him or make any sort of confrontation, he withholds affection and sex for up to a month. Basically until he gets blue balls then he jumps on me for about a week. I think this is a cruel way of dealing with everyday family arguments.

Another ploy he uses to put me down is to call me names in front of his family, he is quite the snob and likes to sneer at people he considers to be lower class than him, so calling me a chav or pikey is his favourite put down. Although my family are quite well off and I am very well educated. This makes me seethe and I am not averse to going ballistic when he does this. I am no wallflower, dont get me wrong but the constant sniping is making me feel looked down on.

I had an affair about three years ago (only slept together once) but it was a mutual friend and needless to say when he found out he was very hurt, but I realised I really did love him and he forgave me. Or so I thought. I think his behaviour detailed above is more of the same punishing style he has developed and my affair gave him fuel for his fire. But the reasons I looked for affection from another man are also detailed above! Our whole relationship I have felt a little lonely and like him having sex/giving me love is really a chore for him. I feel he is putting up with me to keep our family together (he is very good with our child, and child adores him). His parents have had a very long marriage etc.

The bottom line is I love this man to the bottom of my soul. I know I have wronged him and nearly lost him in the past but I know the relationship I desire is in there somewhere! But I need to regain his respect before he can truly love me I feel..... any advice or alternative perspectives? Please, no man-hating abuse style advice please, I am well aware what constitutes an abusive relationship and this is not one of those.

You say to him that your relationship needs help. His response will tell you all you need to know.

He might be kind to your daughter, but he is very unkind to you.

Your daughter will pick up on this. She will learn from you and him that this is the way women should expect to be treated by men.

It's that simple.

But I need to approach it from a different angle to ensure he is complicit in our counselling/moving forward. I dont want to come across as totally wrapped up in the negatives, I need to present it to him as a positive step somehow.

Im going to tell him tonight.

You say to him that your relationship needs help. His response will tell you all you need to know.

Yes thanks I got that Eliza.

I will report his response back....

I am not hopeful :(

Changing, you're already assuming too much responsibility for what's happening - talking about his behaviour doesn't make you a "harridan" - relationships should be about 2 people looking out for each other along with a willingness to do whatever it takes for each other to be comfortable.

Maybe I'm picking things up wrong, but it sounds as though you are walking on eggshells.

FWIW, my first ex had all the bones of a good man in him, he was popular with everyone, generous to a fault, even stopped traffic in a city centre one day to rescue a kitten which had gone under a car.....but behind closed doors with me, he was a different person. Is it possible that your P just chooses not to show you the "good" bits that everyone else sees?

Changing - My H is going to therapy now as a result of his awful behaviour towards me and dc.

It took a huge shock to his system to recognise how bad things had gotten.
Years of softly softly coaxing by me were useless.
The reason he went in the end (and is still going over a year later) is because I lost the plot and involved my family/my psychiatrist and his doctor.
But ultimately he realised himself that something was very wrong and he took steps himself to do something about it (i.e. he arranged therapy for himself etc).

no, I think he reacts to me differently than how he reacts to other people. I seem to infuriate him more, or make him clam up emotionally for some reason. I dont know why, I am a heart on my sleeve kind of person. Perhaps this is what turns him off. As his emotions are so deeply buried.

You're still taking responsibilty for his behaviour. He should want to make your relationship as much as you do!

no, I think he reacts to me differently than how he reacts to other people.

Why? Why does he treat his partner worse than he treats average Joe Bloggs? Because he doesn't respect you....in fact he respects you less than Joe Bloggs on the street... it's not your fault - you don't make him that way towards you, he chooses to behave that way towards you, and not others.

It's not your fault he won't do the housework either!

The trouble is that although he probably can change, at the moment he's got too much invested in things staying exactly as they are.

You asked for a male perspective so I will try and give you my take from what has been written here. It's difficult of course because there is only one side of the story, but in essence you have not disagreed with those who have said his behaviour needs working on, and seem to accept that it is currently far from ideal.

He may well be a 'nice' man, and very happy in his relationship - as far as I can see that is because he gets everything he needs/wants with little investment from his side. He gets to sleep with you when he wants. He gets to enjoy a clean and stable home, with no requirement for involvement from his side.

He needs to understand that this is not a 'relationship' - this is a housekeeping service with benefits... Very few of us (men) like the crap that comes with domesticity and sharing a house etc - but we do it because we are in a partnership and our wives/partners are invariably contributing as much (and normally more) to this side of the relationship.

He will not change unless he gets a very big shock - he may grudgingly agree to discuss/counselling etc, but it is unlikely he will take it very seriously. Underneath he will not believe you if you say you may leave him for this ultimately etc - men/we have the tendency to become very complacent and underestimate how serious a particular situation may be. We are good at ignoring things we are told and reverting to status quo almost immediately. We can do this ad infinitum and more than likely the more often it happens, the less we believe any ultimatums that are given to us.

Therefore - be clear, be strong, be very up front about what you need and make sure you can measure him against anything you ask for - otherwise he will revert. There need to be consequences if he does not match up.

For what it's worth - I am confused by his once a month 'urges'... this is definitely unusual and then the frequency during that period appears strange. I have friends who either have a high, medium, low etc sex drive, but none that are driven by the cycles of the moon. Odd. Likewise, from a personal perspective, I find it strange that a guy may not like the idea of his partner proposing sex but that could just be upbringing/perceptions of roles etc - but again something that is perhaps intrinsically linked to his whole view of relationships and the roles within them. From a cod psychology perspective I believe he probably justifies any of his somewhat suspect behaviour by the fact that he has 'accepted' your infidelity and that therefore you are forever in his debt to a certain extent and that he has the moral upperhand. I doubt he has really either come to terms with it, or forgiven and moved on.

I am not one that believes that you are necessarily at the terminal stages, but I do think you are in the process of potentially digging a big hole for yourself that he has no real benefit in helping you fill in.

Good luck

How old is your DD, Changing ?

She is 5. I dont want my DD bringing into this debate thank you, it makes me uncomfortable. Her upbriging has been very stable and she is a wonderful child. End of.

Thanks for the male perspective MrMeaner. It ccertainly feels odd to me that he is so keen on sex sometimes and not at others. I think he really does wait until he gets Blueballs then pounces and gets it out of his system. Then its back to no/very little sex for the rest of the time. Please ignore my comparison to monthly cycles, I was merely tryng to describe the seemingly cyclical behaviour of our sex life.

I feel I ought to add Mr Meaner - this behaviour with the lack of affection/not liking if I ask for sex/intimacy has been almost from the start of our relationship, not just since my affair. He has nearly always been the same.

He went off me for quite a while after I had DD as well, it used to really upset me. He said it was nothing to do with seeing me give birth etc but I think he is lying. Either that or the general stress of having a new baby made him go off sex altogether. He has never been one for porn/wanking really. AFAIK.

the thought of being with anyone else seems wrong

Do you have that little self worth that living with this man for the rest of your life is better than being alone for while?

And have you never heard they saying, that only YOU can make YOU happy!

"I think he reacts to me differently than how he reacts to other people"

Abusive people can also be quite plausible to those in the outside world.

How old is he, is he a lot older than you?.

Indeed, only YOU can make YOU happy.

I also wonder what you learnt exactly about relationships from your parents when you were growing up.

I read your brother's comments earlier on and they were in itself sad. He also does not have to live with this man nor does he see the realities of your day to day life.

What are you both teaching your DD now about relationships?. Is this really the template
you want her to learn in her own adult life?.

Affairs are more often than are symptomatic of problems within the relationship, not the cause. I don;t think he has really forgiven you for that transgression and holds it over you even now.

You cannot as well act as a rescuer and or saviour in a relationship - neither approach is ever successful.

I don't think you love yourself at heart very much at all and nor does he. In that way at least, you are both well suited and thus cling to each other's baggage. You are only 27 (a very young 27 at that) with your whole life ahead of you.

Where do you see yourself in say 5 years time?.

"I cant compare my previous relationships to him, I feel like my life only started properly when we had DD and settled down. I had a very turbulent life before then and I suppose I always felt like he saved me and geve me the chance to start again. Prbably this is why Im clinging on to him subsciously".

I think the above says an awful lot about you. FWIW I think you are looking for something from somebody/anybody that your own parents were not able to give you i.e love. I am not at all surprised to read that you have had a turbulent life. Again however, people cannot act as rescuers or saviours within a relationship, it just does not work.

You can dig yourself out of the hole but you cannot or will not because you think you can make it work despite all the evidence to the contrary. All you are doing now is growing flowers in it.