Are we doomed?

[Changing2011]

Hi Im sorry but this is going to be long.

I have been with DP for seven years and we have 1 young child. Ours was not an instant love, but things happened quickly in the beginning (moving in, baby etc). Since then things have stalled considerably, but my love for him has grown immensely (possibly due to all we have been through together). I really love him now, but I cant say I loved him in the beginning. He seems to love me more then, and less now.

When we met we had both recently finished LTR and to be fair, I think DP was more bothered than me about finding someone new. He seemed keen to get serious very quickly. I would have liked more of a courtship. But he seemed to hate being single/alone. He as very sweet but not big on the passion side. Sex has always been a little stilted, but we have grown into knowing one another and now, when we have sex we both love it. But I have always had a higher sex drive than him. He likes it a lot abut one week in the month (I swear men have monthly moods as well!) and not at all other times. I prefer more regular sex, but get annoyed when he wants it a lot all at once. He has said in the past it really turns him off if I ask for sex/making love so i dont do that now. It seems the female making any approach doesnt do anything for him and it makes me feel cheap so if he doesnt approach me, we dont do it.

What does annoy me is that he feels the need to grope me in sexual places as a form of affection (he never kisses and cuddles me) and he does this in a jokey way, but I think its a bit cheeky when we are a) not having much sex and b) he doesnt show me more romantic affection which I would dearly love. I do get a bit tetchy with the boob/bum grabbing I must say.

So, the sex is one issue. The main problem is that he uses sex/affection to punish me. I am a busy career mum and run a tight ship at home. He also works full time, but I do expect some help around the house every now and again. Admittedly because I find it quicker and more painless to do things myself, I tend to simmer resentfully and then blow up every so often about his lack of thought around the home (leaving dirty clothes on floor, not knowing the location of the dishwasher, coats in the bedroom, etc etc just general annoying stuff). When I do challenge him or make any sort of confrontation, he withholds affection and sex for up to a month. Basically until he gets blue balls then he jumps on me for about a week. I think this is a cruel way of dealing with everyday family arguments.

Another ploy he uses to put me down is to call me names in front of his family, he is quite the snob and likes to sneer at people he considers to be lower class than him, so calling me a chav or pikey is his favourite put down. Although my family are quite well off and I am very well educated. This makes me seethe and I am not averse to going ballistic when he does this. I am no wallflower, dont get me wrong but the constant sniping is making me feel looked down on.

I had an affair about three years ago (only slept together once) but it was a mutual friend and needless to say when he found out he was very hurt, but I realised I really did love him and he forgave me. Or so I thought. I think his behaviour detailed above is more of the same punishing style he has developed and my affair gave him fuel for his fire. But the reasons I looked for affection from another man are also detailed above! Our whole relationship I have felt a little lonely and like him having sex/giving me love is really a chore for him. I feel he is putting up with me to keep our family together (he is very good with our child, and child adores him). His parents have had a very long marriage etc.

The bottom line is I love this man to the bottom of my soul. I know I have wronged him and nearly lost him in the past but I know the relationship I desire is in there somewhere! But I need to regain his respect before he can truly love me I feel..... any advice or alternative perspectives? Please, no man-hating abuse style advice please, I am well aware what constitutes an abusive relationship and this is not one of those.

I dont understand that?

I didn't think you would Changing...

You might want XYZ in your relationship, but you have chosen someone who is the opposite of all that - yet still you think that somehow if you just try harder that he will change.

It's next to impossible - sorry.

OK.

No-one wants the break-up, upheaval, weekend dad.

I want all of that too, the 50/50 relationship, more communication, a healthy sex life and a partner for life.

Not only do I want it, I know I deserve it too.

Sadly I have no magic wand. I have only 10 years of hope, and the same of being let down, abused and eroded. He says it's not on purpose, but it can't be an accident to do this to me for so long, and so consistently.

ONLY if HE wants all of the above do you have a chance. He doesn't. He wants to do the bare minimum, because he thinks it's not his job to be a parent/help around the house/ensure you have a FULL and fulfilling life.

now with this sex stuff, I KNOW that you are backing a loser.

You can't make a person be the person you deserve, he has to BE that person already.

You DO deserve a 50/50 relationship, more communication, a healthy sex life and a partner for life. But it is NEVER going to happen with this guy.

HE IS NOT PREPARED TO ALLOW YOU TO BE HAPPY/EQUAL.

You don't deserve HIM, you deserve a shit load better. Please believe me.

Changing, this thread is so sad, not so much because of the details of what you are living with but because you think that it is perfectly ok.

I think couples counselling would be a waste of time. However, you need to work on your own self esteem, find out why you are willing to accept such belittling behaviour from your partner.

I settled down at the age of 19 to a man who treated me in a similar way, my ex was much more abusive in the end, both emotionally and physically, but it started off so incidiously (jokey name calling, humiliating me in front of others but always with a smile) that I didn't see it as the abuse it was. I even went on to marry him, because even though I knew something was deeply wrong in the relationship, I thought it was me. If I lost weight, liked his mother more, cleaned and cooked better, things would suddenly be fixed.

I then went on to meet and marry a man, who although wasn't abusive, had issues with drinking and intimacy. He was, and is, a good man but a terrible husband and we are now seperated, but looking back I can see that rather than jump into another relationship, I should have done a lot of work on myself before getting involved with anyone else.

Sorry, ramble ramble, I'm now 36, I have 3 kids and 2 ex husbands but I'm in a much better place now....I won't accept anything less than I deserve. I'm single and mostly happy that way. My kids are well adjusted and haven't suffered from having seperated parents and slowly the real "me" is beginning to show!

Don't wait as long as me....you don't HAVE to be in a relationship, or if you are, you don't HAVE to live together, you can make up your own rules. Take charge of your life and don't let your partner grind you down any more.

Go get some counselling for yourself as a start

I once read that you cant make someone else responsible for your own happiness. You have to achieve happiness yourself.

Thats what Im trying to do - take ownership of my part in the problems. In the hope I can feel happier and stop expecting him to make me happy.

So much else in my life is turbulent - work, family, health) - I feel this is one area of my life I want peace in.

I'm not surprised then that you feel you have to try so hard to fix this.

But I think it's unfixable, at least in the way you want.

The thing is a relationship should make you happy. You should feel supported and loved. Not mocked and treated like a hooker.

NewName - if you have nothing helpful to add then feel free not to post. I am committed to my relationship and I dont want negative advice - nothing could convince me to give up - not yet anyway.

Things would have to be a whole lot worse before I would even consider walking away.

I actually don't think you are really listening.

You want to stay with this man.

You either shut up and put up and tell him you want X to happen or Y will be the consequence.

He is happy. He gets sex when he wants and doesn't have to even look at you.

Nothing will change unless you make it happen. You can only make it happen by telling him you want/need him to do A and if he doesn't then you will take it that he doesn't love you and want to be with you so you will be leaving.

I can't see that happening in a million years tbh.

Go and read Bibi's It's all about him thread and then read her It's all about me thread.

Thanks IARFN THATS the sort of advice I want.

I dont want to hear "you will never achieve anything time to bail"

I am not a quitter in any area of my life and I know he is a good person inside. His behaviour towards me can come across as a little warped sometimes but you are only getting my side of the story here.

I will tell him exactly what you said ^ and see how he receives it! I dont think anything will come of it. I think I need to SHOW him I mean business - perhaps by concentrating on my own life and making myself happy in other ways?

Please go and read the threads I mentioned, in the order I posted them.

I have looked and cant find them!

I feel sorry for your DC.

What an example to set of a relationship?

Its not quitting its sometimes having the realisation that you can't make things ok and that you deserve more. You & your DC deserve more.

My DC is absolutely fine so your pity is quite unnecessary.

Sadly you won't know if she is fine until you see what sort of relationships she has when she grows up.
A decent partner/dad would go to counselling would fight tooth and nail for their relationship and would be so honest and open whilst doing that.
Wishing you & your DD all the best because sadly I think you will need it.

Here

and

Here.

Well as my daugter is just out of pull-ups we dont sit down and discuss the finer details of our past and present sex lives with her. But thanks for the tip.

I was exactly the same as mrsshapely bottom but for many more years.

I wouldnt have wanted to hear or accept what is being said either op.

Read your post of 11.21 it says it all and also you say you know there is a good man inside him and you may be right but I dont think he is available to you

But the good man you know to be inside will surely want to do ALL he can to make your family work, right?

Right. But how to get him started on doing it?

How do I make him know there is work to be done without coming across as a complete harridan who is obsessed with examining every detail of his behaviour?

I would really welcome a man's perspective on this..

OP Sooner or later, this thread is going to die because you won't find a parent who thinks this relationship is worth salvaging, or that it's healthy for you or your daughter. You're trying to chase people off the thread who won't tell you what you want to hear and you are being unnecessarily rude and defensive with posters who after all, took the time to post with an opinion that you appeared to want.

The value of Mumsnet is that people will tell you how they see it. They've got no investment in you liking them and unlike friends, none of us are having private chats behind your back and comparing notes. The fact that so many of us who don't know eachother from Adam are all saying the same thing to you, should tell you what you need to know.

You are also not reading posts properly. WRT my last, I said that a counsellor would be good for you, if only so that a RL person could tell you what s/he thought about your relationship; someone who yet again, has no investment in you liking him or her and that this might once and for all convince you that it's not US, who have got the wrong end of the stick.

If you want help and opinions, be gracious and acknowledge the effort people have expended trying to help you. That is our only agenda - we don't know you after all.

You say to him that your relationship needs help. His response will tell you all you need to know.

Hear Hear WWIFN.

I dont want my parenting criticised. I asked for advice about how to deal with DP.

I consider us to be caring and loving parents who give our daughter everything we can. Sorry if I dont like people putting the boot in about the subservient woman my DD is going to grow up to be because I take it from behind too often!

Changing I think you will find he wont see anything wrong with his behaviour and exactly as you say you will be "the harridan who is obsessed with examining every detail of his behaviour" . Thats the whole point really isnt it .