Think I may have fallen out with a friend. WWYD? Very long alert.

[ampere]

I have a work colleague, Sue (not her real name) who has, over 4-5 years, become a friend. She had an apparently perfect family set up with 3 DCs, but, 3 years ago, her DH more or less walked out, citing 'a breakdown'. Needless to say, there was OW. He did appear to have some sort of breakdown- appearing disheveled, rambling, stary eyes etc. (he came to take the DS, then 10, out- for a half hour trip to Argos for example!).

There is another woman at work who is the same age as us and all 3 of us are good frinds, bearing in mind we all have families etc to deal with.

Anyway, the other friend and I have been endlessly patient about Sue's marriage breakdown. We have been cried on, we have listened hour after hour to the same stuff, over and over, we have crafted going out plans around her circumstances, we have offered as much advice as we could (along the lines of 'Get a solicitor/ change the locks if you're scared of him/ document the veiled threats he's making/ keep your DS at arm's length from him if you don't trust him'). All has gone unheeded. She wouldn't even declare herself a single parent on her DD's uni funding application because of 'the shame'. She is in financial dire straits (though wouldn't ask for more hours at work in case our boss suspected!). She also has a tendency to 'talk over' us like she has to be heard. The other friend occasionally tells her to shut up and listen/let us get a word in! My DH thinks she's hilarious in that respect.

She is also quick to fall out- I mean, I get on with everyone at work (or at least, they all think I do- I hate a frosty atmosphere!) but she has alienated quiet a few people. No one gets a second chance.

Thing is, poor woman doesn't appear to have 'moved on' much at all in 3 1/2 years of separation. And I have to say, there is an element of 'Scottish Widow' about her- deep in her soul I think she is perhaps unconsciously enjoying the martyred role, standing proud and dignified, refusing help.

Well, small issue BUT I am struggling a bit this Xmas. It's definitely no more than the Winter Blues, stuck in on annual leave for a week with the DSs with all my plans scuppered by the weather, sickness and apathy (not just mine!). I managed to get a night off being 'on-call' last night (Tues) and I invited 5 families over for drinks (invites issues on Saturday) including Sued and her DS (now 13), but not our mutual friend as I knew she was busy; all said yes, sounds great. Then one by one, they pulled out (bar one family). I am aware that Sue was going down with a cold on Sunday, I arranged to phone her (she will only answer her landline if you pre-book. Honestly!) but she didn't pick up. She texted me yesterday to say sorry, she'd fallen asleep and that she wasn't well enough to come over in teh evening.

I concede my text back was along the lines of: 'Oh no, one by one everyone has pulled out, I am going to cancel along with everything else this holiday'.. which is actually the truth.

She responded 'Am sorry don't like to be reliable'

I sent back 'No, you're not unreliable, you're ill; it's OK; are you working any more this week? Maybe we can get together later'

I heard nothing back, so today I texted to say 'Did you work today? Hope you are feeling better and the girls are home' (from uni).

Nothing.

Now, to be honest, I am sad and pissed off. I know she is freezing me out for having the temerity to suggest I was disappointed she wouldn't be coming to my place. I mean, she was ill, wasn't she? How dare I still be disappointed? I wonder if now I will get the frozen treatment at work? I won't see her til Jan 6th as she has a term time contract plus 'as needed'.

I just feel that I have been there for her for 3 1/2 years through all of this and have resisted the temptation of shouting 'Get a grip, he's gone off with another woman, he isn't coming home; you, for the sake of your DCs, have to make yourself and them safe. Stop being such a martyred victim here!'... but I didn't. I remained staunchly supportive.

Now I'm the one feeling somewhat let down and to be honest, a bit lonely if not rejected this week, I get cut off. Dead.

I want to just let it go but on the other hand, I want her to know I am hurt! But she wouldn't see that as it appears to be all about her, her, her. Well, I assume because she'll never call to discuss it.

Sorry about the rant!

Maybe she lost her phone, if not does it really matter as her friendship would surely be no loss.

Think you are thinking about it a bit too much.

Don't want your post to go unanswered, but not sure what to suggest.

She sounds flipping hard work to me so I am not sure anything I would suggest would be very charitable.

Thanks for replying.

Nah, she is never without her mobile. Never. I am feeling the loss- as much as anything, I'm angry that 5 years of friendship, 3 1/2 in a supporting role, can be cast aside just like that the minute I go 'off message'.

I thought I knew her better.

mud, yes I guess she is quite hard work but she can be funny and charming, she's a great hostess and appears very sensitive and caring. Except when I need her to be.

What I would do is wait to hear from her. If she doesn't call then no hardship really.

I have a long standing friend and she was really upset me lately and I backed off and didn't text/email. We have had contact since but not as much as I would normally contact her.

Life is too hectic for petty people imo.

She's making a rod for her own back but I think after you get over the hurt of the rejection, you'll feel relief at not having to be her emotional crutch any more.

I would find a friendship like the one you've described incredibly draining.

fab, yes I think you're right. I want to get in my car and go around but I know it wouldn't be welcome.

The thing is, 2 weeks ago the three of us went out for dinner (for me and the other friend's birthdays). We had a lovely time but- and you may think I am being a prize cow for saying this, Sue kind of spoiled it by sneaking off to pay for it all. She has made absolutely no secret of teh fact she can barely pay her bills let alone extras. Whilst the friend and I were effusively grateful (and well able to fund ourselves!) it seems odd to me that we went from that act of generosity to not speaking to me. Just like that..

This is also an example of the 'shame', She absolutely won't be seen to be the one who 'can't' pay- so she pays for ALL of us!

Yes, I guess we all hate rejection, and I know I am feeling it acutely right now because I can't find anyone to 'play' with us this week! I am feeling a tiny bit tearful anyway- not sure why, suspect hormones etc so this business has probably affected me more than it normally would.

Being, like all of us, a busy PT working mum (and fairly new to this area where I now live, DS1 also being a tiny bit friendless) I need my friends and a) can't afford to lose them but b) am very upset that the minute I need to vent some frustration, I appear to be dropped.

She's an absolute whanger and you are well rid. Honestly. You will find yourself feeling as though a great weight has rolled off you soon.

Do you think I should discuss this with the other mutual friend?

I mean, the reality is I don't know I'm being given the cold shoulder but I genuinely believe I am. Normally, Sue would text me back within minutes.

The rescuer often is the looser in a drama triangle, you must have gotten something out of the relationship for yourself, the rescuer often does!

It is almost as if you feel you own her now that you have supported her through her traumatic event.

If I was Sue I would feel bad about all the support you had given and maybe she feels buying the meal (secretly as you would have objected otherwise) is her way of saying thanks, you don't know what has happened since in her life that may not be anything to do with you.

I do think the way Sue goes about things is strange having been in the same position myself, the thing is when you go through a trauma like that you are not always yourself.

if she, after everything you have done and supported her thorugh , is prepared to cut you off after a less than warm text, which really, was not that bad, then i think you should do nothing

she sounds like very hard work and will add your falling out to her list of marytyrdom/awful things she must bear in her sorry life and move on to the next group of people

she has behaved badly and you owe her nothing more

Actually, mummie I think you have a point re 'the rescuer being the loser'. I did get stuff out of the relationship: a woman of my own age in a similar 'life-place' before her DH's desertion; she can be funny, irreverent, kind and generous (even when she shouldn't be!).

I don't feel I 'own her', but I feel she should recognise that I'm in a difficult place in my life right now and that a more appropriate response could have been (in the knowledge that she was backing out due to illness thus couldn't realistically come out!) 'God, sorry, it's a real bummer when your plans all get kyboshed, maybe we can catch up later in the week?'

And yes, she had to pay secretly, because we would have objected strongly if, for no other reason, we will hear the ongoing 'god, I can barely pay the bills/I'm so worried' spiel as a result!

Ampere, I have played your role previously and someone played that role to me as a victim also when I was going through a trauma, so I recognise the situation, what you will find is that to get out of the current situation you will need to readjust the friendship at some stage, for everyone's sake, do you think that time could be now and that you could communicate this to Sue?

The silver lining is of course that she sounds like a SHIT friend, and you are now well rid!
No more listening to her moaning and working your time around her. You can breathe!

Phone her and leave a message if she doesn't answer. At the moment, you're second guessing her motives and ascribing thoughts to her that she may well not be having - she could just be ill/busy. If you phone and leave a message such as "Hi Sue it's ampere, hope you're feeling better now. I could really do with a chat if you're up to it - feeling a bit low. Speak to you soon" then you'll know for sure how she's feeling if she doesn't get back to you. But if you've always been the strong in control one, don't assume she'll have picked up that you're feeling low - I bet she hasn't at all.

Pick up that phone - it's Christmas

Thanks for the recognition that one reason it hurts is because I have 'invested' years into the friendship. And it's been mutually beneficial, like any good friendship should be.

I guess I am perhaps questioning my own judgement- I am a good listener and do my bets to proffer good advice but does this mean Sue does only want me around when I'm being supportive and soothing? And that she really can't see that right now, I'm a bit needing? And that might just come across as real disappointment that she along with everyone else (bar one!) pulled out of my drinks do?

Ampere, have a google of drama triangle and a read if you are up to it, I suspect your feeling down is about not having Sue's problems to deal with, and you having to deal with the reality of your own life you were ignoring with her issues...

Here is a pasting from the theory:

The relationship between the victim and the rescuer can be one of codependency.[8] [9] The Rescuer keeps the Victim dependent on them by playing into their Victimhood. The Victim gets their needs met by having the rescuer take care of them

Thanks jajas, that's helpful. I agree.

mummie- mm, not so sure. I do not 'Oh, there, there!' Sue at all. I say 'Right, you and I both know what you need to do, don't we? You know you have to do x, y and z to protect yourself, don't you?' To which she'd say 'Yes, yes, I know you're right but I'm not ready to take that step yet'.. (whilst he's forging her signature on her tax return!!)

Believe me, we have much better times together when she's in a 'good place', being funny and charming than when I have to spend half an hour comforting her sobbing form in a back room at work when things have destabilized in her home life- whilst feeling slightly hopeless that any good advice I dispense (and it's only the stuff you'll read page after page of in this Topic!) will be agreed upon, then ignored.

What you are describing is the role of the "rescuer" to offer short term solutions, to keep the "victim" (who wants to stay in that role from what you say) there, it benefits you both, there is a long term solution for Sue, have you suggested she take that solution in the long supportive there there chats? What are you negelcting/hiding from in your life when you are helping Sue? do you hate your job?

sorry I misread your post, you don't there there Sue xxx

mummie, when my 'Hiya, Sue, how was the weekend?' is met with a quivering lip, I help her maintain her dignity by taking her out of the area where there are many junior staff to somewhere private, I say 'What happened?', I get the story, I say 'Oh, that's crap, nasty bar-stewart, now, what do you think would be a useful thing to do?'. As I said, I don't 'there there'. I have known Sue since before all this, when all was fine, it really was. Her DH was a lovely, charming, funny bloke.

She has 'moved on' in that she has done some stuff to help her keep the house (though she still doesn't know that the 'extra' hours work offered happened because I spoke in confidence to the bloke who allocates them, a bloke who, like everyone else at work, I have a good working relationship with and he has facilitated this. I absolutely don't want thanks. I don't want or need her to know. Her ability to stay in her home and pay for her DS makes her a happier person, therefore a better friend- is THAT manipulative?).

And for what it's worth, I am an introspective person but I really genuinely believe I'm not hiding from myself or my life. It ain't perfect, but I generally feel 'at the helm' of it, except for this week where DH is being very supportive of my 'meh'!

And I 'x' posted with you, mummie ! Incidentally, I am not 'dissing' what you've put- I think it is all valid though I don't really think it applies to me and Sue in these circumstances.