How do I help 8 year old DD develop immunity to horrible grandmother's vile comments?

[HerBeatitude]

Here's an example: yesterday, DD 8, got all dressed up for carol service at local church, my mother was taking her. She wore her new velvet sequinned skirt, couldn't find a suitable top to go with it so borrowed one of mine, was all blinged up and sequinned and feeling fab. One minute she was dancing around looking forward to the carol service, next she came running up the stairs crying, saying she didn't want to go because Nanny had said she looked ridiculous and silly.

It upset her for about half an hour and just as she'd calmed down about it, once again my mother made some fucking stupid unnecesary remark which set her off again. She ended up changing outfits because my awful mother had made her feel so bad. And she'd felt beautiful an hour before.

I didn't even feel angry about it because I'm so used to this sort of mindless cruelty from my mother. Cutting her out of my life isn't an option, making her stop is never going to happen, so what can I do to make sure that my DD develops the same immunity it took me 42 years to develop to this shit?

It's not just your DD though is it? Although that of course is your first priority.

Look how stressed you are and the energy in dealing with it. How much can you take too?

Hope you sort things out to your satisfaction...

TSC do you think it was specifically because you cut them out of your life that you now see them on your terms? Is there no other way it would have happened for you? I am wondering if long term, that's what I will have to do. Am going to try SGB's route first though. I thought there was no need to get rid of her because she no longer affects me and it looked as though she was broadly OK with the DC's - but as I said earlier, I wonder if yesterday was an indication that that might be changing and if so I have to nip it in the bud now.

Thanks TSC. And thank you ALL for your reactions and practical advice. It does help to see it written out in black and white. Yesterday I was so gobsmacked and mystified about the whole thing that I didn't really know waht to do about it. I thought it was a battle I'd already fought and won. So it was a shock to find it wasn't - it completely threw me.

Also I had thought that as they're very well protected from her, don't live with her etc., she can't do them much harm. Am I kidding myself? Am thinking aloud here really, I discussed this with a counsellor and her advice was that as the children had a good relationship with her and didn't see her that often, the benefits of that relationship outweighs the disadvantages.

But that was before yesterday...
Anyway am off to bed now to mull over some more.

Sorry, only read the first few posts so far. I agree with SecondComing - you have to teach yoruself to stand up for your DD in front of your mother, as she will learn from your example. If you don't stand up to this crap, your DD won't learn to do so and so will absorb it instead.

Privately, I would also tell DD that your MIL is a miserable cow and that when people are hurting/ miserable they sometimes try to hurt other people. Explain that this is what bullies are like - ask her whether she can think of any bullies at school, and help her to understand that deep down they're all very unhappy.

My granny was a total cow - not always deliberately but always selfishly - sometimes she'd say frightful things & it was always obvious I wasn't her favourite but I have to say I don't think it's done me any long term damage. I was about ten when I first started noticing but I also noticed that my mum was less popular with her than my aunt. So I sort of sided with my mum (plus my dad & grandpa) in taking the piss out of her & having a good bitch when she wasn't about. She was still my granny though so I would have been saddened to have had her removed from my life.

I don't think she ever reduced me to tears but I do think you need to discuss her with your kids before cutting her out of your life since they might still want to see her occasionally - with the right moral support / knowledge that it's ok to slag off granny / fight back as necessary. I personally think it's only damaging if you are asked to respect someone who doesn't give you any respect - if you get to slag them off when they're vile then you (well I) came out of it unscathed.

No GP is better than a shit one & I´m sorry but your mum sounds shit.

How do the good times make up for the bad feeling that such a nasty remark would bring?
What does your daughter learn from it?

That she doesn´t have to be nicebecause she´s grandmother?
That´s what makes it worse.
Because she´s Grandmother there should be unconditional love.

They are children, they should never have to learn to deal with crap from a grandparent.

Think back to how your mother was to you as a child. How did that make you feel? How does it affect you now - apart from you being so used to it that it doesn't even make you angry? (to quote your OP)

You have been conditioned to accept this treatment.

I beg you, don't condition your daughter to accept it too.

How your mother made you feel, is how she will make your daughter feel. Your mother won't stop. Because you, by the very act of not cutting her off, are telling her that you will make some little noises now and then, but in reality will accept her behaviour.

Your children don't deserve this.

If she hit your daughter, would you accept it? If it was only now and again and in between times they got on great? Would you teach your daughter to ignore the thumps?

This is no different. It really isn't.

Don't teach your daughter tactics on how to shut down her feelings like you learned to. That's not the right thing to do to her. That's protecting your mother, not her, whether you realise it or not.

You have to treat your mother the same as any other adult in your life. If another adult said something rude about an outfit your daughter was wearing you would get angry with them, ask them to apologise and see less of them if they didn't change.
Relatives shouldn't be excused normal behaviour rules. If your daughter was a young adult then I'd agree she has to learn not to let other people's rude comments upset her, but in general a grandmother is supposed to be a positive influence in a child's life and to be defending them, not the cause of misery.
When your kids are older they can decide whether or not to see nasty granny. For now they have to see her when you say so so it's up to you to fight their corner.

A counsellor really should not be giving such a directive - and it is definately not up her to decide whether the benefits of the relationship outweigh the downsides.

A decent counsellor helps someone to work out how they really feel and what they want to do themselves. Something which people from emotionally abusive backgrounds struggle with, because they have been wrongfooted on so many occasions.

No decent counsellor would think they can just judge your situation on the information you provide and tell you what this relationship is like for your children. I am not talking about the advice given on this thread, btw, some of which IMO is very useful.

But it sounds as if you might be giving more weight to the counsellors opinion because she is a counsellor. Please don't. No good counsellor would issue an opinion like that. Its goes against everything they should be doing in therapy, which is giving you space to see what it was really like for you, and free you up to make your own decisions based on that.

My grandfather used to do this. As a result, i didn't want to see him, and once I was old enough to stay at home on my own, I just didn't. I like him now, now i am an adult, but it wasn't exposure that taught me to brush his comments off - his comments were as damaging as your mother's. It was time and my own maturity.

You can't make your 8 year old be adult about mad grandma. She's not an adult. you need to cut the supply of nasty comments by either threatening to cut contact, or actually doing it.

I agree with sgb and I understand too what tsp was saying about having to cut a parent out to make them change.

The only bit that I would add is that I suspect the prospect of confrontation and high emotions is quite daunting.
If your mother is 'confident' in her ability to say horrible thing and it just be accepted then she will be difficult to stand up to.
You are,as hec said, conditioned and your instinct is quite understandably to find a way to minimize the damage your mother does rather then to try and stop her.

My strong feeling is that it doesn't actually need to be confrontational, you don't need things to feel aggressive and emotional in order to manage it.
Just refuse to accept it any more and be unwavering about that. Don't try and find witty put downs or talk rudely about her with your dd - that teaches your dd to retaliate when the lesson should be about asserting herself.

When she does it next just say ' mum, that is incredibly rude. Whatvare you doing? Why would you say something so unpleasant? What are you trying to achieve? We don't speak to each other like that -that is not what people who care about each other?

I think the idea of asking her to apologise is a good one but I worry you may get drawn into a fight. Perhaps instead say something like " I would hope that if I were ever so gratuitously rude I would have the character to apologise?"

But don't be heated or shout. Model calm disdain and disapproval for your daughter.
That way you signal to her that your mothers behaviour is awful without name calling or arguing.

Finally... You know all of this is only going to work if you do it when she is rude to you to. You cannot teach your daughter to put up with insults from people who say they love her...bad bad lesson.

Just master the look you would give to a child who appeared in your doorway with a fresh dog turd in their hand and say " what exactly are you doing" next time she does it

HerBeatitude. I honestly do not like the thought of ridiculing your mum so she becomes a joke to your DD.

I think you have to tell your mum on the s[pot though when she does a remark that is hurtful to you or your Dd. Like "Do you realise how hurtful you sound, how does it make you feel to have reduced your DGD to tears totally unncessary? You will not see her anymore if this is the type or relatioship you are thinking of having with her."

It will be hard though seing it is your Mum

I'm not sure why you would want to teach your daughter how to cope with nasty comments from your mum instead of standing up to her and defending your daughter.

I agree with pagwatch - teaching her that you should ignore insults from people who love you is not a good lesson. You are also teaching her that if the person who loves her mocks how she looks, she should change to suit that person, which is also a lousy lesson for life.

Next time - if you allow a next time - walk into the room with your daughter and state "Doesn't she look beautiful". If your Mum says anything different, tell her you disagree.

I don't know. I just find it a bit :( that you can't stand up to your mum for your daughter. It says a lot about your relationship with both of them.

Pagwatch has given good advice. My Dad is a controlling shit and absolutely brilliant with his undermining coments. He gets to see the DC's with me there and is picked up if he starts in the slightest bit. As a result he is pretty careful what he says.

Your DD is about to enter the whole image angst that a lot of us go through and this is the time when people like your Mum and my Dad really like to get going as they know how vulnerable to comments children of this age can be. Definitely decide what you are going to do and start a new era as you mean to go on.

I agree with the majority.

So sorry this is happening. I'm glad you realise she's started on your DD - probably because she knows it no longer hurts you in the way it used to, she needs a new victim.

What a bitch.

You're right, she will never change.
I suspect your son is coping in a way he knows won't upset anyone, but probably feels it deeply as well. He just doesn't want to show it.

I would in your children's position far rather not see granny than have that kind of underhand dig coming at me. It's mean and awful. Your poor dd.

What you need to do, as everyone has said, is call her EVERY time - you speak to her quietly in private and it won't count, she'll ignore you. You tell dd quietly in private that granny is wrong and to ignore it. That's not standing up to granny.

Say it happened again - you're not in the room, gran comes out with a nasty remark, dd runs to you crying.

You say 'what??' and take dd's hand, go downstairs together, and say to granny 'I hear you have just said so and so to dd. Why did you say that? You have really upset her and I won't allow it', or similar. You stand up to her in front of dd, so dd knows how to assert boundaries when she grows up herself.

This is the right way to handle an aggressor, imo. Direct and straightforwrd and no whispering or tiptoeing around.

Let her know she can't bulldoze you or dd this time. She's a bully and she only did it when you weren't in the room because she knew you would be angry. Picking on a child - ffs.

bullies need standing up to. She will do it again unless you really harden up, sorry - it must be difficult, but you can do it. Gte angry, get tough. Call her on it every time, in front of everyone - it's the only way.

OP. You can't teach an 8-year old to develop immunity to hurtful comments made by someone they care about. Tbh, if you try then you could end up with some wierd emotional repressant behaviour from her, and we all know that we should only develop that kind of thing when we have DCs of our own .

What you can do is lead by example in how you respond to your Mum's comments. State clearly that the comments are nasty, unecessary and that she looks beautiful (or whatever needs to be said). Make a parallel with bullying in the playground and tell your DD that just because Granny speaks like that, it doesn't mean it is OK for her to do it as well. Do all of this in front of you Mum. The subtle(ish) comparison with a playground bully may have some kind of impact? You can have harsher words with your Mum later on.

Don't try and ridicule your Mum. Kids perceptions of old people are generally borne out of their relationships with their grandparents. Possibly teach your little girl some polite but firm responses for when she is upset by anyone ("you can make fun of me if you want, but I like this dress..." etc.)

How sad that you have to deal with this. I can't wait to get DD over to grandparents' house for Christmas.

Why was she taking your DD to a carol service if you know she can be like this?

My own grandmother could be awful, and we lived with her. But my mother always stood up for me, and wouldn't leave me alone with her until we learnt to be civil to each other.

One time she did and came home to find the two of us sulking in different rooms, I was at most 5. After that she got someone else to keep an eye on me, even if it meant taking a child with a cold out in the rain; until we learnt to be civil.

My kids have one grandparent who sadly lives a long way away. I do feel sad about it sometimes. But better no grandparents than one who is toxic.

I havnt read all this thread, but IMHO, stand up to your Mother and tell her you are no longer prepared to accept her harsh comment, especially directed towards the children. Assert yourself, dont roll over and say she isnt going to stop. I stood up to my sister recently and she apologized and now knows i will not tolerate her rude stupid comments.

You cant ask your child to do what you cant do yourself. You cant ask an 8 year old to stand up to a horrible grandmother just because you don't have the balls to do so.

It does not have to take much to do irreparable damage to a young person.

I was 9, going for a walk with my grandma, through a summery meadow, and I was grabbing hold of the long grass as we were walking through it. I cut myself on the grass. 30 years later, I clearly as it was yesterday remember my gran lashing into me about what a silly girl I was, and how could I ruin her walk by hurting myself. She made me sit on a stone and wait while she got my parents.

That one moment ruined my childhood image of having a nice and caring grandma. It changed my outlook on her, and I distanced myself.

In later years my grandma complained that she was not close to me. She died when I was 16. I did not really care. She became a Nobody to me that moment.

If you are lucky, OP, your daughter is like me, and would just cut her grandma out of her life and stonewall her.

But whatever you or your daughter do, the hurtful words and attitude will stay with her into adulthood.

I only have a few such episodes to look back on, and my parents never knew because I did not tell them, so I dont blame them for not standing up for me. For your daughters sake, there better not be many such episodes to look back on.

She will learn that its ok for people to treat her like that. It may become such a deep seated belief until one day she lets everyone talk to her and upset her, because that is what she is learning.

You have a great opportunity here to teach her what she is worth! Show her by standing up to your Mother. Such good advice here and it may be that the lesson you learnt as a child is one your dd doesnt have to.

I think telling her it is wrong, or out of order to speak to your dd like that, after the fact means nothing to your daughter, tbh.

Your daughter will still have heard her words, it will still hurt her. As you said in the OP, your daughter changed her outfit because of her, so I don't think making your mum apologise will make a difference to how your daughter feels. Because she is too young to shrug it off. And your proof to that should be the fact that she changed!

Seriously, as someone with a mother like this, this is the reason my girls will never meet her! Constant criticism, picking at every little issue, put downs! It isn't what I want my children exposed to!

And you know why your mum does it, don't you? To control you. To keep up the pressure on you! She is hurting you through your children. Absolutely foul behaviour to pick on a 8yr old!

Different is absolutely spot-on. Your DD and her feelings come first, not your mother's. My step-gran was vile to me, but when my parents weren't there - closing the door in my face ('Oh, it's you. I thought it was someone else' is one that stays with me); humiliating me in front of younger cousins at family get-togethers, etc. I hated her, so did my parents and eventually the visits stopped altogether.
Please tell your mother that it is not in her job description to ever be unkind to your DCs; she is supposed to be the one they come running to when they're upset with you! The advice that other posters on here is excellent and is saying more or less the same thing: bite the bullet and tell her like it is. You and your DD do not deserve to be treated like this, ever. I really wish you lots of luck with this.