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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Moral dilemma: abusive grandfather now very frail and ill

62 replies

WeirdFamily · 20/12/2010 22:44

My grandfather is 90 and is now very frail and ill. He has lung cancer, and this will almost certainly be his last Christmas.

I'm one of the only grandchildren to live near hime, and have generally kept visits to an absolutel minimum as he was (is??) a particularly nasty abuser. I'll keep the details to a minimum, as I worry about being outed in RL, but basically he sexually, physically and mentally abused my mother as a child, and continued to abuse my aunt (who has cerebral palsy and special needs and lived with him and my grandmother until about five years ago). He also behaved inappropriately with me and my sister when we were kids...nothing too major though.

I only became aware of the extent / history of the abuse a few years ago. I should add that no one (incl my mother) knew about the abuse of my aunt until a few years ago, at which point my Mum and social services moved my aunt into her own house.

My Mum has had counselling for many years and is "over" it all. She has basically forgiven him, and sees him often. I think she loves him I guess it's fairly hardwired into our brains to love our parents? My aunty lives near him, and also loves/depends on him.

So you get the picture - he was a controlling, evil man, and when my daughter was born (six years ago) I decided never to see him, unless under duress / family pressure. I've literally seen him about three times since then, mostly at unavoidable family gatherings.

However, he really is ill and frail. I offered to go and see him at the weekend mainly to make my Mum happy. I couldn't help but feel a pang of pity for him. He is bedridden and he seemed so genuinely pleased to see me, and sort of humble and affectionate (these are NOT adjectives that could been applied to him previously!).

I feel like I;m in a quandary now. I feel like he deserves to be punished for the years of misery he inflicted on people, but on the other hand I'm not really the person who should be inflicting that punishment. It's my aunt and mother who suffered...they've moved on and (I suppose) forgiven him. I would be making THEM happy by seeing him. He's is harmless now...almost blind and immobile. Should I give him the pleasure of spending more time with me and my DCs in his final days??

I've been ruminating over this for ages, and have decided to pass it over to the MN jury.

OP posts:

ivykaty44 · 20/12/2010 22:47

sorry that your in this dilema, I wouldn't go and see him and wouldn't for reasons that by doing so I would be saying it was ok what he did to my mother and aunt. He has abused them and they are the vulnarble people in this and in a way under his spell.

orangepoo · 20/12/2010 22:51

I wouldn't take your DCs to see him, certainly not. I wouldn't take my DCs to see an evil person, although I would see the evil person myself if I thought it was right.

How frequently are you thinking of going to see him? I would be guided by what your mum wants you to do - her happiness would be the most important thing to me. If your mum doesn't mind whether you seen him, I personally wouldn't see him.

You are clearly a very kind person though.

BookcaseFullofBooks · 20/12/2010 22:52

Oh goodness what a terrible dilemma. I don't think I could be in the same room with him to be honest.

NotANaturalGeordie · 20/12/2010 22:53

I am leaning towards keeping your Mum happy. If you can forgive the inappropriate behaviour towards yourself and sister, and your DC's are not at risk, then the remaining issue is your mother's feelings. If you are sure your Mum would be happier if you had contact with the evil bastard then I would be inclined to do the minimum necessary to please her.

BeerTricksPotter · 20/12/2010 22:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tortington · 20/12/2010 22:56

NOPE.

he deserves nothing

BringOnTheGoat · 20/12/2010 22:57

I really don't know what you should choose to do but I did choose to see my GF before he died and went to the funeral.

He didn't sexually abuse my mother but was very cruel. He made our lives a misery on a regular basis. I went as I knew my mother (then dead) would have wanted me to.

Most abusers were abused themselves and in that sense I think hardly anyone was born evil, they're made that way. Maybe if you do go think of the boy he's turning back into now fragile, not the awful man he was.

perfumeditsawonderfullife · 20/12/2010 23:02

Frail or not, he is still an abuser. I personally wouldn't. Your mum has 'forgiven' him, perhaps as a kindness to herself, to get free of the trauma. He is still a bastard. Why give your children some false memories, they are only going to discover the truth when they grow up.

BitOfFun · 20/12/2010 23:05

I would let him reap the consequences of his evil shitty abusive behaviour and leave him to die lonely and miserable. Sorry, but what he did, especially to your aunt, is so reprehensible that I don't think he deserves any peace in his old age. Fuck him.

brimfull · 20/12/2010 23:05

Nope I wouldn't go and see him.
He deserves what he gets whether he is harmless now or not.
His victims were harmless and defenceless.

piranhamorgana · 20/12/2010 23:05

BOTG - that made me cry.That sounds like compassion and forgiveness.My G'fa abused my mo. she abused me. I have wondered what I would/will do in OP's situation.

Binfullofmaggotsonthe45 · 20/12/2010 23:06

I wouldn't go for any reasons but my own as other posters have said.

My father was physically violent and mentally abusive (not sexually) and for peace of mind my brother and I cut him out, when he was dying of cancer I'm afraid it was a reflection of the life he led by who was around his deathbed. He had terrified us into covering up the abuse and it all came out from my Aunt when people were questioning our lack of support in his last days.

I was abused, but I am completely the opposite - I wouldn't lay a finger on my child, as I knew all along it was wrong.

Your poor Aunt and mum, I wish them all the best - but they should understand your reasons for not going.

winnybella · 20/12/2010 23:07

I couldn't do it.
He doesn't deserve kindness-unless he has truly acknowledged his abuse, repented etc.
No way I could see someone who did to my mother.

hairyfairylights · 20/12/2010 23:07

If it was me, I would not go and see him.

brimfull · 20/12/2010 23:08

I have nursed elderly people at the end of their life and a few times family have opened up to me the reason they aren't visiting ,similar reasons to you.
Totally understandable.

Curiousmama · 20/12/2010 23:10

Agree about not giving your children false memories. They may question why you didn't let them see him when he was well? And it could get awkward. Go if you must but you really don't owe him. And your mum can't blame you if you don't.

He'll be judged when he passes (IMO)

ScarlettWalking · 20/12/2010 23:12

No. He deserves no forgiveness and compassion in his last days. Absolutely none at all.

expatinscotland · 20/12/2010 23:20

I wouldn't see him except to tell him I'd see him in Hell.

pollyblue · 20/12/2010 23:21

God this is difficult isn't it? I think, in your shoes, I would not go again. It sounds like your visit went well enough, you've parted on good terms - made your peace, if you like. I think that's enough.

blinder · 20/12/2010 23:21

I would go and say, 'I know what you did. I hope you're sorry.' Whether I stayed after that would depend on his reaction.

Curiousmama · 20/12/2010 23:22

Expat she won't be going to hell? Not that I think it exists mind you.

expatinscotland · 20/12/2010 23:23

True, Curious. In which case, I wouldn't go at all.

I'd probably go back after he'd be buried and spit, though.

BitOfFun · 20/12/2010 23:24

I don't think Hell exists either. Which is precisely why I think that he should at least feel shit scared that it might.

GetOrfMoiLand · 20/12/2010 23:25

This wouldn't be difficult for me.

It is very black and white, you reap what you sow.

I was abused by my gran and got the hell out, I could not and would not forgive and never saw her again, she died last year.

Some people do not deserve forgiveness. And I think you are being too self effacing for the sake of your mother. WHY put your own feelings aside in order to keep your mother comforted? So she has forgiven him, well that's her story. However he is a vile abuser who has carried on the abuse of a very vulnerable woman up until recently.

He is only being nice now because he can see the shadow of the grim reaper and is afraid.

If I were you I would leave him to his thoughts.

Forgiveness is overrrated.

Curiousmama · 20/12/2010 23:27

Oh I think you're judged and there's retribution. But I feel the issue here is OP's guilt which she has no need to be burdened with. She's trying to please others yet she's a victim.

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