So what does she mean

[baffledness]

OK, unsure H here who needs a bit of female advice about DW's behaviour. We've been together around 15 years and have 3 DC's, all under 10. We seem to be slowly growing apart, and no amount of going out together, away for weekends etc. seems to make any difference. She's a SAHM and I appreciate it's a handful managing the needs of a mix of school-goers and pre-schoolers. I know my needs are very much secondary to the DC's, and I do my best to support around the house, school run etc. I'm always first up to get the kids washd and dressed so DW can grab an extra 10 mins in bed. Despite all this she is getting more remote, and the displays of affection are now really few and far between. Love life is non-existent and I've just kind of accepted that and don't really expect it to change.

Anyway, thats all the background pre-amble ! I guess my reason for seeking your sage advice is that we've had some pretty heavy discussions this year about our life and relationship, and a number of times she has said that she loves me, but she is not in love with me anymore. Is that a feeling that any MN's recognise - is that normal in a marriage do you think. I can't bear the thought of not being around my DC's all the time, but at the same time, the thought of being trapped in a loveless marriage, eventually going down the affair route etc. is no more appealing.

Any female advice gratefully received !

I don't think that's necessarily "loveless". You're just at a stage where (quite rightly) the dcs and earning a living to keep them absorb all the energy which used to go into feeling romantic. The dcs need both of you and you shouldn't give up on staying together just because the spark between you isn't obvious at the moment.

Keep going with the weekends and evenings out; and I wonder whether there is a way in which you could make sure that you share interests: it's very easy to divert into two different worlds when one is out earning and the other a SAHM. What did you enjoy pre children?

Don't feel trapped, just make the most of this "family stage" of life- you will come out the other end.

All sounds very normal and exactly where my husband and I are at. There doesn't seem any energy left to be a couple anymore, once kids have been looked after. I don't see it as a permenant state of affairs though, its stage we're in which doesn't feel so great but we work on making it as plesant as possible for each other. I totally understand the love but not 'in love' feeling...it has come and gone in my 17 year relationship and again seems normal to me. It doesn't mean I have any desire to leave my husbad though or for him to leave me, only your wife can tell you what she's feeling. I have no advice only that it sounds to me that you are entirely reasonable and not alone in feeling the way you do.

Deep breath. Quite often, when a partner does the "love you but not in love" thing, it means there's someone else. This is NOT always the case!! It could simply mean she's feeling bored, boring & flat. You need to go to Relate. Really, you do.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the posters that say I.ts normal. We had three dc's very close in age I was a SAHM and we had some tough times financially when they were young. At no point would I have described our relationship in the way you do.

Often when there's a lack of sex it can be helped by the man ensuring he does his bit with the dc's and around the house. If you are sure you are pulling your weight and you do make time for yourselves then I'd say it's time for Relate - sorry.

I do think a lot of what you describe is normal, but really, I don't think it can go on this way - you want to be intimate with her (not just physically), and that is really important to you, and should be to both of you..

Either she is pissed of with you and can't voice it

Or she is fed up with her life and maybe a bit depressed (libido - and not just sexual but general joyfulness in life gone) and that needs to be addressed. I think this is pretty likely (been there).

or as Grace says .....

In my case, we bumbled along for ages, with DH utting no pressure on me. It took him telling me how unhappy he was to push us into sorting it out for the sake of the rest of our lives together

sorry about mis-types

The children benifit from parents who are actively in love with each other too, I think

If you were a female poster describing this situation in her partner; remoteness, distance, withdrawal of sex and the oft quoted "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" then most posters would suggest that her partner was having an affair. So there's no reason to treat you any differently and so my advice is based on what I would say to a female.

Have a think about whether that scenario is possible and if so, who it could be with. The problem too with confronting this with her before doing some checking of your own, is that you might be met with a denial and her covering her tracks thereafter. Therefore, I generally advise posters to snoop first and confront afterwards.

Only you can decide what your instincts are telling you. At the very least, this situation needs to come to a head, because I heartily agree with those posters who say this is neither normal not acceptable, if it is making you unhappy. You have a right to express that unhappiness and you deserve enormous credit for wanting to do that in an open, honest way.

Keep posting, because you will receive a lot of support, whether your relationship has been blighted by infidelity or not.

Alternatively she could be suffering with depression. It's surprisingly (or maybe not so surprisingly) common in mothers of young families. Might be worth checking out.

its not necessarily a bad thing to get divorced. you can still be a close and involved loving father with a great amicable relationship with your wife.

better than a loveless marriage imo

I wouldn't think affair - I think it's more likely she's a bit depressed. I second Relate - the fact she's still saying she loves you is very positive and shows there's something to work on.

The "not in love" comment implies she's missing the early heady days, the excitement, the breathless romance etc - and that's probably more to do with her fears of getting older, getting stuck in a rut, sacrificing her life to facilitate the family etc., than it is actually to do with your relationship. Does she have friends/hobbies/a life outside the home?

And the reality is that loving a partner rather than being "in love" is the default position after a lot of years together - there just isn't the same giddy excitement. But you have to come to terms with that, accept it as something that's just as good, and that could be where your wife is struggling.

If she is depressed (and I also think that's most likely), it may be nothing much to do with you, as in it is having an effect on her mood and her ability to want intimacy, but it may be better tackled through counselling/lifestyle changes - a job - voluntary or otherwise/more childcare/breaks or even medication, rather than Relate.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply - I wasn't able to log on last night so apologies for the delay in response.

Grace and WWIFN - Thanks for your words - I'm reasonably sure that there is not someone else - our life is so busy I don't see where she could get the time ! She's not on Facebook etc., and is not at all furtive re phonecalls/texts etc. She says she has zero sexual interest full stop so I just cant imagine there being someone else

Annie/JLC/Hassledge - I suspect you could be right and depression may be an issue. She had PND after DC1 but mildly and recovered quickly. She is going to the Docs at the moment and is about to go on the pill to try and tackle her regualr mood swings which appear linked to hormones - she's sceptical on whether it will do any good though

I agree that it is normal for the DC's to take precedence - my worry is that we won't actually find our way back from where we are now - I'm not convinced we are suddenly going to be able to turn back on the intimacy that has been missing for some time now - we've had sex 5 times int he last two years - that really can't be good !

I do agree with you about your latter point. The trouble is, when you are hassled SAHM, it's easy to slip into the idea that sex is just another demand on you rather than something that is pleasurable and binds you closer as a couple. And if you don't use it you lose it. The more you do it, IME, the more you want to.

You need to talk frankly to her about this and find out if she wants things to be different. She needs to know how you feel.

Thanks JLC - Worst time of year to have these conversations though - want Christmas to be special for the DC's - may have to bite my lip for a few weeks

Talk to her about her life in general as well - whether it is going in the direction she wants. If there's anything she would like to change and practical things you can do to help her.

I wish you luck.my DH has been where you are now and it was hard on him

Xpost. I agree about Christmas

Just wanted to say that the pill is a good step. I had the most awful moods, incredibly depressed for half of every month but within weeks of going on pill felt much better and few months down the line I get very few PMT symptoms. It has changed my life, the effect was profound. The first pill I tried was not that effective though so might be a bit of trial and error before your wife finds one that helps her.

I would say you should think about making Christmas special for ALL of you. As family, as couple, as individuals. Bit of quality time together, few treats, might build towards relaxed starting point for discussions after Christmas.

The fact you have been talking about it over the last year means at least the subject has been opened up..and now I think it is time to go to Relate to talk a bit more deeply about it. I have been and I recommend it. It is a safe environment where there are no interruptions and you can focus on each other and your relationship. If both of you genuinely want to get somewhere (wherever that might end up), it's worth it. There is also a very good book which I recommend which is called 'I love you but I am not in love with you' by Andrew G Marshall. I found it very useful in explaining the way a relationship grows over time. It's very readable. The affair route as you say will make life miserable for everyone ultimately, so the more both of you can talk honestly now, the better. Children are often a terrible drain on a relationship! - of course as well as all the lovely things they bring. But they are exhausting.
There's a lot to be said for being patient and kind with each other even though inside you feel very troubled.

I am a SAHM to 3 under 10. ANd tbh you sound a bit like my DH.

He did this for me for a while but it felt like he was taking over and that nothing i did was good enough so i just didn't bother. We don't have sex, i don't want or need it or see why i should lie there and let him get on with it. I also hate my body so naked is a NO.
We don't kiss and if he initiates it it is usually while i am trying to make the tea or some other never ending housework task and i just don't have time or the inclination to drop everything for a 5 minute hug.

I would also consider that she feels trapped, by the children and the fact that she is tied to the house and it is her "job" to make everything perfect. It's bloody hard work when your expectations of your self are so high!

Hmmm..I am constantly fascinated by how common it is for people (women do this too) to display affection at what they know is an inappropriate time and when reciprocation is unlikely. It is actually a manipulative action, usually connected with the affection-giver's need to blame the other party for being unaffectionate and non-sexual. This is a behaviour I've frequently noticed in affairs, but also on the run-up to them. What I am certain of though is that when this starts happening, it marks the start of "points being scored" in the relationship.

OP, while I understand your reluctance to push this at the moment, I think keeping up the dialogue is essential. Your wife has sexual and effection needs too and that needs to be acknowledged by both of you. It is often the case that the demands of young DCs and the attendant tiredness impacts on the primary carer's libido, but this sounds more serious than that.

It is actually a hurtful thing to hear that your partner is not in love with you anymore and I don't agree that this is normal at all. I also think it is crucial that you determine what she means by this. What this usually means is that she doesn't fancy you or see you in a romantic light, not that the heady feelings in the first flush of the relationship, have departed, which is understandable. I'm sure they have for you too, but it is evident that you still desire her and see her as a romantic partner.

If you can, I would ask her to explain what this statement means to her.

How much time does she get to herself, alone, doing exactly what she wants?

It can be easy to feel trapped in a maelstrom of demands with 3 kids under 10. Does she ever get a break just to be her?

She sounds a bit depressed to me. I felt terribly low being a sahm. Just seemed as though life was passing me by. I think I definitely was remote with no interest in sex.

It can be quite overwhelming. Every day is just constant picking up toys, washing up, ironing, going to and from pre-school/schools. With a background of shouting and screaming and constant stress.

I love my dc dearly, but I wasn't cut out to be a sahm.

I feel a lot better now I have a part-time job but I guess with 3 dc this would be very difficult and may not be her choice.

I do think as some others have said it's a phase of life that may well pass.

Again thanks for your words

WW - she has some time to herself - 2DCs are full time school and the the yougest goes to Nursery 2 mornings a week. She goes to exercise classes by choice two evenings a week and does have weekends and days away with girlfriends. The SAHM role is undoubtedly a real drudge at times, but it's not as though there is no escape. I think I do my bit to help at home i.e housework, weekly shop, cooking at the weekend, school run etc.

The more I think about it, and the more I benefit from your great advice, the more I'm leaning to two options - Depression/Hormone issues or just simply doesn't feel the same for me anymore