So what does she mean

[baffledness]

OK, unsure H here who needs a bit of female advice about DW's behaviour. We've been together around 15 years and have 3 DC's, all under 10. We seem to be slowly growing apart, and no amount of going out together, away for weekends etc. seems to make any difference. She's a SAHM and I appreciate it's a handful managing the needs of a mix of school-goers and pre-schoolers. I know my needs are very much secondary to the DC's, and I do my best to support around the house, school run etc. I'm always first up to get the kids washd and dressed so DW can grab an extra 10 mins in bed. Despite all this she is getting more remote, and the displays of affection are now really few and far between. Love life is non-existent and I've just kind of accepted that and don't really expect it to change.

Anyway, thats all the background pre-amble ! I guess my reason for seeking your sage advice is that we've had some pretty heavy discussions this year about our life and relationship, and a number of times she has said that she loves me, but she is not in love with me anymore. Is that a feeling that any MN's recognise - is that normal in a marriage do you think. I can't bear the thought of not being around my DC's all the time, but at the same time, the thought of being trapped in a loveless marriage, eventually going down the affair route etc. is no more appealing.

Any female advice gratefully received !

Oh dear. Hope you can get this sorted

I can see the sadness in your admission that she perhaps doesn't feel the same about you anymore, but I want to bring some perspective to that. Assuming there isn't an affair and her feelings towards you have come about without outside interference, it is perfectly possible for her to get those feelings back, but not before they are faced up to and acknowledged.

It would help if she could tell you exactly why she feels the way she does. For many people in her situation, it is the relentless combination of repetitive tasks with young DCs and not feeling like a desirable woman in her own right. You don't say what she has been telling you in these frequent long chats about your relationship, apart from that bombshell line. Does she share your view that you get equal amounts of leisure time and that this is an egalitarian relationship, for example?

I notice she goes to the gym, so her fitness and appearance are important to her - and she meets up with friends, which are all good signs but for those reasons, I am less inclined to believe that depression is at the root of this and think this points more to changed feelings, for reasons best known to her.

The point is though, that if her feelings for you have changed, that brings some responsibilities too. She might have lost some respect for you that you have been willing to stay with someone who isn't in love with you, so I would urge you to press this point, because your self-esteem will spiral downwards if you accept this as your lot. It is always your choice whether to accept this life or not, but don't give up trying to change things and as you say, don't ever go down the affair route yourself, because that is the least adult means of expressing dissatisfaction and would be punitive in motive.

Please talk to her and don't under-estimate how low you might get yourself, if you make yourself accept a marriage in name only.

great post WWIFN.

Thanks WWIFN - To be honest feeling pretty low already !!

great advice from WWIFN

I too hope you can find a way to make you both happy, BN

if not, might be best to cut loose but you have to talk to her and give her a proper heads-up

Cheers all - I guess we'll be having some pretty heavy conversations over the next few weeks. They haven't always gone well in the past as she often just says that our relationship is another pressure/expectation on her that just adds to stress - therefore it tends to get ignored for a few more months

Well, it does seem you cannot carry on like this indefinitely. For either of your sakes.

Yes, this avoidance is not tenable. She needs to be honest with you about what is pressurising her - the sex ? or more than that ?

I put my head in the sand and, painful as it was to have that blow up with my DH (we don't do arguing), it needed to happen. I think you do need to lay it on the line and suggest Relate

... if you can't have this discussion on your own

And, I am sorry to say this again, but are you sure she is not having and affair or could be considering an affair?

Yes JLC I have to say this also crossed my mind again too. OP when you rejected that suggestion, you said she wouldn't find the time, yet you later mention that she goes to two evening classes a week and has days out/weekends away with her girlfriends. I'm not saying she is elsewhere at these times, but one of the common misconceptions about affairs is that a person doesn't have the time. Sadly, people with the motivation to have an affair always find the time.

Sorry op but I agree with the others who have suggested there may be someone else.

From your posts I think she would have time for an affair.

Fwiw I was very similar to your dw before I left my ex.

Hi all - again thanks for your words. Maybe you're right and maybe there is someone else. I'm still not convinced - we live in a small village and the classes she goes to are with a group of mums who I know well. Her trips away have been with similar groups do it would be a hugely complex web of deceit were it to be true.

You wife sounds like me except I work 3 days a weeks too. I have totally lost interest in my husband and it stems from lots of different reason. Like you he does do lots around the house, does the morning school run, gets the kids ready in the morning, weekly shop, bathes the kids, sometimes cooks etc

But there are so many things that he has hurt me with in the past and more recently that I no longer respect him or find him attractive.

He chooses to do things that are hurtful but doesn't seem to listen when I tell him the impact his actions are having. I used to think that it was my duty to be a dutiful wife incase he takes his interests elsewhere but recently I can no longer think along those lines. His thoughts and actions appear completely selfish to me.

So my question is, is there any hurt or resentment that has built up for her which she has tried to communicate but is not getting listened to? There are so many things that I have repeatedly communicated to my husband which have not been listened to that I can no longer be bothered.

Yes at times I do feel depressed and think 'Is this all I have to look forward to now' but these thoughts are normally not related to my OH solely to myself.

I am not having an affair but I have moved out of the shared bed because I cherish the little time I get to myself to read or listen to my iPod - something which I cannot do at any other time of the day.

You may wonder why we are still together and why I don't pull the plug on this marriage. The only thing that keeps me with him is that he is an excellent father and a good provider

Men don't realise that women get switched off when their feelings are not taken into consideration or where they are taken for granted.

Itsall - thanks for your post, it sounds almost like our house. Don't think there's any big resentment around (at least, not with me). sShe has huge family issues connected to her Mum walking out when she young and her Dad being useless. This means she is not very trustful and lacks deep down confidence. She has said to me a number of times recently how lucky she is to have me and how I'm so much better a husband than her friends have. All very well, but that's not the same as getting a loving hug and being told just how much you're loved ! Hope you sort your situation for the best.

An ingrained belief that relationships don't last can lead us to sabotage our most valued relationships, proving our fears correct. This is not a conscious choice. I'm not about to say your wife's issues are undermining your marriage; that would be abusive in a way. I would like to repeat I think you two are ideal candidates for Relate, though.

Something struck me about what you describe as your wife's activities, in the light of your last post. She's putting energy into making herself fit and healthy, going out with friends. Literally putting her energies elsewhere.

It's like she's making a life outside the home and making herself strong whilst simultaneously withdrawing from you. I wonder if this is a way of "rejection-proofing" herself, now the DCs are getting older and more independent and you are past the full-on time-consuming bit of parenting (and she's not depressed any more).

So I agree with Grace

This sounds oh so familiar to me I'm afraid, I feel for you, really. I hope it all turns out well for all involved. In my admittedly limited experience, if an OM in not already on the scene, it may not be long before there is.

Enjoy the Christmas break with your family, make the most of the time together, then tackle the situation fully in the New Year.

Just my twopenny worth, it could be that your dw finds it very difficult to switch from being 'a mum' back to being part of a couple. I know when my dc's were young a weekend away just wasn't long enough to remember what we had been like as a couple. I know that getting away for any longer is probably nigh on impossible, it certainly was for us, but please don't give up too soon. Go to Relate if you think it will work or try and hang on in there if you can because as our dc's became teenagers it started to change. They became more independant (and stroppy!!)but we had time for 'us' too. I hope you can see a way forward together as I've been with my dh for 30 years in March and I'm soooo glad that the times when I felt like giving up and walking away something always seemed to happen that prevented it.

Sorry been offline all weekend so first chance to respond to your posts. Thanks to all of you for your words and advice - I guess we'll see how the Christmas break goes and take it from there. I'll try and keep you updated.

Good luck baffledness.

This is a difficult/stressful time of year for a lot of people and it can be hard trying to play happy families when inside you are in turmoil.

You sound like a nice guy just trying to do his best.

I hope it works out well for all of you.

Me too.

NET and JLC - Thanks loads

Hello all - I thought I'd post an update on the last few weeks following all your kind advice. For those who didnt/havent read the thread, I'm a DH who's spent years with no emotional engagement from the DW who is trying to understand what is happening.

We talked just before Christmas and to be homest it didnt go well. We both pretty much admitted that we didn't feel the same about each other any more (the first time I had realised and admitted that)and that we had to decide what to do - seperate, work at it or stick together as friends for the kids sake. There were lots of tears but we didn't really talk any more after that as Christmas was so close.

So we're through Christmas and New Year which was strange - I felt pretty numb through the whole thing, and we endured an uneasy peace. We talked again a couple of days ago though when it was clear we just couldnt go on in virtual silence the whole time. It wasn't a long conversation but it was calm and reasoned, and seemed to conclude that we both felt differently now and maybe we would be better off trying to be apart for a while. I felt enormously sad after this, but strangely calm. However, we talked again last night and she declared that she doesn't want me to go. We had another long tearful conversation about where we had gone wrong, how we were feeling etc. etc.

Now in complete turmoil of what to do. I desperately don't want to hurt DW or DCs, but I know deep down that this doesn't feel right. We have had the same conversations before where we articulate what we want from each other in a relationship, and what we think is lacking in each other, but neither of us seem capable of changing. There is no kind of abuse, fighting etc. - our relationship has always been amicable. She talked lots about the fear of being on her own with the DCs, the fear of rejection, the financial worries etc. etc. She didn't once say to me that she wants me to stay because she loves me.

She spoke briefly this morning and said she wanted to try and make things better. I feel I just need to get away for a few days and get myhead together. I want to make everyone happy, but I really fear that I'm going to end up unhappy myself in the process.

Sorry for the long update.

I find it odd that on situations like these, people will find anything to blame relationships problems on, rather than look at a very obvious (to me) possibility - the children.
It's a horrific thing to think that actually, children don't necessarily bring you joy 24/7 and it's very easy to blame those negative feelings on a partner, the easiest target, rather than dare to think that your children might not make you as happy and fulfilled as they "should".
Parenting is hard work, anyone dealing with three kids under ten deserves a medal.

I found the school years fairly hideous tbh. I would have never admitted to anyone ( barely even myself) that being a mum wasn't actually my favourite thing in the world - it's endless, the school drudge, hobbies and clubs, lifts here there and everywhere etc. etc. ad. infinitum. Sometimes, you just haven't got the resources left to be in love with your partner.

I could be way off the mark but it surprises me that it's the one subject that nobody ever considers as a factor on here when it comes to a breakdown in a couple's relationship.