Is my marriage over or am I being a fishwife?

[myotherusername]

Regular MNer here, but namechanged for this. I'm at my wits end with my marriage and need some help getting some perspective on the situation. I'm not sure whether it's over and I'm in denial or whether this is normal and I need to get a grip.

We have been married 6yrs, have one DC and I'm 33 weeks PG.

The bad stuff:

• DH never pulls his weight around the house, despite us having numerous talks. e.g. I am currently ill with flu, massively PG, working full time and because I've felt so rotten this week the housework has slipped. Instead of doing more to keep the house going, DH has done far less than the v little he usually does and now the place is almost unlivable. When I ever mention housework he acts like a bratty teenager.
• I have asked him to read the Ina May book before we have our second DC. We are both keen to avoid the nightmare scenario of DD's birth and he said he would read it. Months later it remains unread and he now tells me he doesn't need to read it.
• He doesn't respect my views on parenting DD. I am constantly having to remind him to be consistent with her. He isn't, so she throws tantrums all the time then gets stressed and impatient with her and with me. It's horrible.
• I feel ignored a lot of the time. But then so does he I reckon. He watches TV while I hide behind my computer and work.
• We have no sex life to speak of. How we managed to conceive two children I will never know. Once a month is our average. Has been for years. I don't feel like sex because I spend so much time annoyed with him, but then he doesn't initiate either.
• I am working my arse off, up until my due date, and not planning to take much mat leave so we can afford to pay our bills and live comfortably. Meanwhile he spends £180 on a case of wine for his parents, £250 on a new suitcase for a two day work trip, and has declared that he is getting a new bespoke suit for Christmas. I'm counting the pennies and panicking about how quickly I can get back to work after having DC2.
• About twice a year he goes completely off the rails while out with mates/work colleagues, gets hugely drunk and becomes incommunicado. He last did this when I was 20 weeks PG and had no idea he had plans to go out. He did apologise afterwards, but then a week later disappeared again mid-afternoon drinking with a 'client' and got all arsey when I was worried about his whereabouts.
• I feel like a burden and an imposition in our relationship always having to ask him to do stuff or ask for a lift to the station when he's working from home and it would really be no bother. Not sure why. I just feel like I'm a pain in his arse a lot of the time.

The good stuff:

• He is an equal parent to DD. It's genuinely 50:50. And he is the one who gets up with her at 6am every day so I can get another 1/2 hr in bed.
• He tells me he loves me all the time and it feels genuine (even if it doesn't feel like it)
• We are very affectionate to each other, despite lack of sex.
• He cooks most of our meals and takes sole care of our pets.
• When asked, he will do jobs around the house, but it's so exhausting always being the one to point out the house needs vacuuming or a lightbulb needs changing.

I've run out of patience, again, with our relationship. I feel like we're going round in circles. Is this normal relationship gripes or something more serious?

If your husband is not willing to talk or listen properly then it might be time to start making decisions for yourself, by yourself. You don't need his permission to have counselling, have a separation, etc.

myotherusername I am so glad you feel things are on the up. It's difficult. Honestly, I think you and your DH sound fine; yes, there are issues but who doesn't in their relationship. At least you sound like you are both now trying to improve things rather than sitting on issues and letting them stew. DH and I went through a difficult patch a few months ago and not same issues, but certainly on the same magnitude. Not enough for me to worry about splitting up but more where we are heading iykwim. But we worked on things and things are much better now.

P.S. BTW, we are lucky we have no real financial worries but we are trying to buy a new house so definite possible money issues in the future! But I am more like you and DH is more like your DH; DH thinks nothing of spending several hundred quid on a suit while I worry about spending £30 on a top (even when I don't really have to worry!). DH is generous to a fault and doesn't care if I buy stuff with his money (I'm not working right now) but I find it so, so hard to spend money without worry. So the issue is really how we have been brought up with different views to money but how we do reconcile that? So now DH puts money aside every month for our savings but then after that, he's pretty free to spend what he wants. He does see the value of me wanting to hoard save money. I can also see the value of his 'life is for living' philosophy so I try to enjoy us having money more rather than always worrying about whether we have money or not. But it's a constant battle for me to 'enjoy' spending money!

berries - your exh sounds like my exh

angel your post got me thinking that it might be a good idea for us to siphen off a little money each month into our own separate savings accounts that we can do with what we like - either spend or save - and then the joint account works on the strict basis of bills, kids and joint purchases only. At the moment it's just one big pool that leaves us both feeling resentful.

DH actually thanked me this morning for the conversation we had last night. He said it was very hard to hear such personal criticism but he knows there are things he needs to do differently. He even named them... I feel like I was able to express myself more calmly and directly this time, as opposed to previous times when I think I've just put him on the defensive.

We talked a lot about how we show we love each other, and what we each need from our relationship, which we have literally NEVER done before. Thank you to those who suggested this. It became quite clear that DH thinks he's doing things to show me he loves me when actually it's not what I'm hankering after, and vice versa.

We shall see what happens over the coming weeks, but the most important breakthrough for both of us is that we have agreed to talk regularly, every week, about how we are feeling while we get our relationship back to a happier place.

Thanks again, I was feeling desperate last night. And sorry to hear all these stories about men being twunts.

Sounds positive myotherusername Hope your relationship goes from strength to strength. Nothing worse than not feeling heard.

Are you married to my husband?

I feel exactly like this. Am going to mark my place and read what everyone has to say later.

myotherusername I'm glad you had such a positive conversation with your DH. Things will sometimes get worse but things will also get better. It is hard to have your imperfections shown to you by the person you love the best. I wanted a pair of Ugg boots for Christmas but I find it so difficult to spend that sort of money on a pair of boots and my DH literally had to force me into a shop to try them on for size so he can buy them for me. It hurts sometimes when he says to me that I always make excuses about buying stuff and I shouldn't worry about money. I know I shouldn't, we are more than comfortable but I can't help it! I hope that doesn't make me sound like a miser as I am very generous to people I love but find it hard to splurge on myself.

It sounds like a good idea to have money in your own 'pot' that you can do what you want with. DH and I still have separate accounts (we just never got to getting a joint account together!), but we spend mostly 'his' money now as I haven't had income for a while. But I know at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whose money we are spending as it's ours! We are buying a bigger house and DH will be paying all the mortgage etc but without any doubt, we will be down on paper as owning 50/50 of the house (as we do now with our current house).

has he turned over a new leaf regarding the drinking blowouts and disappearing incommunicado, then getting defensive when you ask where he was ?

any explanation for that unreasonable behaviour ?

We shall see AF, we shall see... he was willing to talk about it, accepted without doubt that this sort of behaviour is totally out of line, but doesn't really know why he does it which is a worry.

It's very infrequent - twice this year - but when he does it it's awful. He said that if he felt 'free-er' about going out occasionally he might not go so over the top. But I don't really buy this. He doesn't go out often. Neither do I. But I have never made unreasonable demands or tried to make him feel that he shouldn't go out. Just expected him to do the decent thing and keep in touch if he's going to be later than planned.

I explained that after years of him doing this (albeit infrequently), the trust I had in him has plummeted and he needs to think about what he must do to rebuild this trust. He accepted this, and the conversation wasn't at all awkward, difficult or restrained.

I hope it's a new leaf, but only time will tell.

twice this year is not "very infrequent" for a family man with responsibilities

my DH did this once about 17 years ago, before pg's and children came along

it is totally unacceptable and demonstrates both a complete lack of respect for you and a worrying lack of impulse control in himself

more like the behaviour of a 20yo than a fully grown, mature man

Yes that's what I thought. But have held back on saying this openly to him until we talked last night as I haven't wanted to come across as a controlling wife.

Few of his friends are married, which I really don't think helps. But isn't an excuse either. It's him and only him that has made the choice to behave like an idiot. Thank you for helping me to see that.

please don't try to be a "cool wife" about something that clearly you are not happy with

it doesn't help anybody

it gives him mixed signals and gives him the opportunity to turn it around back to you by saying "but you said you didn't mind"

and it makes you feel like a mug

so what if his the majority of his friends are not family men?

he is or did you hold a gun to his head and steal his sperm ?

he made his choices, he is no longer a single man out on the razz who can turn up when he feels like it

you seem rather frightened of the consequences of speaking your mind, love...is there a reason for that ?

has he threatened/implied leaving you before if you dared to challenge him on anything ?

twice this year is twice too many...I expect there will be more opportunities for him doing what the fuck he likes over Xmas, so don't write off 200 just yet..

2010

So glad it went well...he sounds like a good guy. Really well done for talking and managing to get somewhere, good on him too. It IS harder for men to do this, and it's also hard for anyone to acknowledge they were wrong, so that's pretty amazing. It sounds like a good basis. Maybe you just need to have these chats on a frequent basis, eg. once a week. How things are going, what things are worrying you about the marriage, what things are worrying him etc. Something open but not confontational.

Marriage counselling is definitely worth it. I felt like you do about being so overwhelmed by everything, and we were fighting ALL the time. We'd lost all affection, let alone sex. It was hideous. (This is after having a toddler and twins plus I had a chronic health issue). It took a long time to persuade my dh to see someone, but I think he'd be happy to go back if things get tricky again as it really helped him. I felt like he was hearing things in a different way when someone else said what I'd been saying! It's almost like we needed a translator, not because my dh is a 'stupid man' (AF...!) but we find it hard to communicate well and when there's years of misunderstanding, you start reacting to all the other stuff not just the new issue. 2 things which really helped us were:

• Good boundaries. You can't say: you made me really angry. Your anger is your problem.
• Stating facts about you not the other person eg. I feel really, really scared about the birth and it's making me feel unsupported that you haven't read the book (NB. not YOU ARE BEING UNSUPPORTIVE),

Hope things can start working out. But, as a few posters pointed out, try and look after yourself and get through the pregnancy, birth, newborn bit.

"I hope it's a new leaf, but only time will tell"

Words are cheap, you need to also consider that he said all these nice things to keep you both acquiescent and "in your place".

At the very least set yourself a time limit, say 3 months, on him.

I personally think you are selling yourself way short and he is taking advantage of you big time.

MM...I didn't call your DH a stupid man

But I don't agree ever with excusing disrespectful behaviour towards women from men as being just "because they are a man"

That way madness lies

AF you are very perceptive. I am afraid of speaking my mind as I am terrified of losing people in my life.

DH has never spoken of leaving or even hinted as such. His view of marriage is that we made this commitment to each other, gave vows and that we must do all we can to get our marriage back on track and keep it that way. His words from last night.

This fear of losing him is a deep seated fear that goes back to when my parents split and my dad moved continents. He has never come back and we speak only a couple of times a year at best. He doesn't even know I'm pregnant.

Counselling looks worth exploring, thanks for telling your tale Marigold. We'll see how we get on with our weekly chats first and then look into it if we think we need some help.

OP, your fear of losing people should not colour every interaction with your DH

swallowing your objections and compromising your principles (as well as never properly challenging him on disrespectful behaviour) will wear you down in the end

I thonk counselling will help you...to find strategies to effectively reinforce your boundaries and make sure that an inherently selfish man (like your husband sounds) doesn't take advantage of your compromised sense of what is acceptable in a loving, mature relationship

good luck x

thonk ?

gah

OP, have not read all this thread, but just wanted to post that I know how you feel and to say I'm sorry you are going through this. I spent last night crying and ranting at my counsellor about how trapped I am in my marriage, which sounds similar to yours. I've got a toddler and a 6 month old. I too feel like the whole thing is an insurmountable mess, a thousand little hurts that never get healed. My H has many, many good qualities too, which I think is what makes it even harder in some ways - if he was an out and out shit I would just run. But he's not and I'm not strong enough to upheave everyone's world. .

I can relate to what you say toad. When a person isn't a complete arse but frequently lets you down or just leaves you feeling unimportant in some way it's hard to quantify exactly what's wrong and what to do about it.

I think we both need to learn new behaviours and to interact with each other differently. I'm not sure yet that my DH is inherently selfish but he sure as hell does some very selfish things.

I think it can be unlearnt. I suspect it is the result of years of us both gradually neglecting our relationship in our own individual ways, not dealing with changes in our lives/careers/families very well and then exacerbated by having to deal with some pretty difficult awful things that happened in our lives almost a year ago. We haven't really spoken about our feelings from that time but I know it affected DH greatly. This is the biggest problem, we don't talk. I need as much help to change that as he does.

Toad do you find the counselling helpful? How long have you been going?

AF, just that I think you often come across as if you think NEARLY every man is basically stupid (emotionally immature, lacking in empathy) and selfish - so that would probably cover my dh too! (Though you haven't ever referred directly to him). You are really insightful too. Just that your experience or that of your friends, I'm not sure, seems to have given you a v negative view of men...and that can sometimes (imho) undermine your insight.

thanks for your advice, MM, I shall bear it in mind

however, I have not called any men "stupid" on this thread

I am reacting to the behaviour displayed by this bloke, as described by the OP

A lazy man is a lazy person, an uncommunicative person often has something they don't want to communicate, a spendthrift show-off is a dickhead no matter what the gender..

did you miss that bit ?

perhaps you will see me criticising men a lot if you hang out on the relationships board, you see by it's very nature, many women are citing examples of not being treated fairly on there

and many of them are in denial about how much they are being disrespected by the person who is supposed to love and respect them

should I not point it out when I see it ?

or should I say "yes love, because he is a man he doesn't understand how it hurts you so you must put up with it, because he doesn't mean it, the poor ikkle misunderstood boy..."

am not sure why you are taking issue with my attitude towards men which is one of not making excuses for them

is that so hard for you to stomach ?

Actually, I think AF comes across as if she has a very high opinion of men because she will not excuse bad behaviour on account of gender. Hope that made sense.

Perfect sense, yama, thanks.

MM, I think your post of 15:06 was really good, and supportive. You do it your way, I'll do it mine, yes ?