emotional abuse - what, if any "treatment": can help?

[QwertyQueen]

OK,
I don't want to into the whole thing right not but DH is emotionally abusive to me and, now, DS.
The usual Jekyll/Hyde thing - so charming when things good - complete monster when not. Not in the sense of hitting although he can be intimidating but it is more the words, and the damage they do.
Last night he crossed a line in that he said things to DS that are unacceptable and, frankly, possibly damaging to DS in terms of self esteem and guilt.
So DH disappeared last night in a rage as I didn't back him up and I told him I would never back up behaviour like that. Hasn't been home.
Last time he was away a few days.
When he returned he accepted he has a problem and agreed to counselling.
This time... well, I am not sure if he will return... I am not sure I should encourage him to. But I am pregnant so I guess I should be open to it if he is still willing to try and sort himself out. Not sure I can get over it though.

Anyway, my question is:
what treatment(s) would be best for him, assuming he is still willing to try. I have heard couples counselling doesn't work.
Any ideas where to start?
Any success stories out there?
I think he does love me, although as a rational person I can't accept someone would treat someone they love this way.
Really confused and not sure which way to turn
TIA

The treatment I would recommend is Divorce.

Just one application of Divorce can protect you and your children from years of fear, abuse and intimidation.

Sorry, but when men start on their own children the gloves have to come off. Please put your children first.

Argh. I'm sos sorry you're going through all this - again - while pregnant :(

The sad fact is, REL is correct. People can deal with the underlying issues that prompt such behaviour, but it takes decades. You can't fix it with a bit of CBT - it's all bound up with deep-down perceptions of love, beleifs about relationships , expectations of your life and the people in it, etc. Even a very young person - say 20yo - would need AT LEAST a decade of in-depth therapy. And that would be ten years of your life gone; DS would have left school by then.

One thing that's very important to understand, while you're detaching from an abuser, is the difference between "feeling" love and "doing" love. Very many abusers mean it when they say they love you. What they feel for you is love. But, for them, the acts that go with love are all about mistrust, contempt & control. It's very sad but you just have to acept it, I'm afraid.

As a person whose love is a verb as well as a noun - someone who cares about making a positive difference to the lives of those you love - you need and deserve a partner who loves constructively, like you do. Your H isn't capable of it.

sorry for errors - typing too fast!

Do you really think that being pregnant means you should force your son to live with a man who abuses him?

Whatever help he gets himself, however he sorts himself out (should he manage it) is not your concern. Your priority must be your son's wellbeing and that means living in a home free of abuse.

I have ordered the book "why does he do that" which I believe is a big eye opener.
Thing is I battle to distinguish between an anger control problem and emotional abuse. He only does it when something angers him, so he is not constantly doing it.
He encourages me to be independant etc etc so not controlling generally.
Can you see how clowdy my vision is?

Your 2 posts have been really hard for me to read :(
I am the bloody eternal optimist, always see the good in people

that's a bit harsh, spidookly, can't you see I am trying to do the right thing?
I just feel that if he wants to change and is willing to change shouldn't I try and support him and give this family a chance?

Forget the treatment and leave the shit. No-one would talk to my child like that and keep my love and respect.

And he RAN AWAY! He is a responsible adult and he ran away. Shit.

Check out the women's aid website
www.womensaid.org.uk/default.asp
they have loads of advice and info and can signpost you to your local women's aid centre
just because he is not being physically abuse does not mean that it is not domestic violence, emotional abuse can be hugely damaging.
Please get some professional support on this one, perhaps you can talk to your GP/midwife/HV?? Look after yourself and your children, don't let this bully of a man get away with it any longer.
Big hugs to you and good luck xox

Qwerty - I've never been in your position and I don't know what to say, other than I'm sorry.
I really admire your willingness o forgive and try to work at your relationship. In the end the best thing for children is to have both parents around, but it might not be best for now if your DH behaviour is so damaging towards DS. The thing about MN is, people shout divorce really quickly.
Without knowing details it's hard to say what you should do, but could you try a separation whilst DH sorts himself out? That way DS isn't around him everyday (or ever when his moods are bad!) but you can spend time together when he is being civil and hopefully keep building on that whilst he is having counselling until your family can be restored?
If you are willing to work at your marriage, don't let anyone talk you out of it, but I do think it might be wise to put some space between DH and children.
Might also motivate him to stick with the counselling.

OK. One question: Does he treat other people the same way?

This doesn't actually tell you whether he's fixable, btw - it tells you whether he lets his anger make an arsehole out of him in general, or is abusing you to keep you down.

Glad you've ordered 'Why Does He Do That?' - it's very good. And, again, I'm sad for you.

when he feels wronged he will react to whoever is the "cause" of it. Not just us, but obviously we are around more - stresses of life etc etc.
He describes it as like trying to see through a red mist...
It is difficult to navigate as when he is like that he cannot - will not - listen to anyone else's point of view and remains indignent. Then that is when he can become verbally abusive, when he sees whoever the other person is, is not backing down or whatever - like a self defence mechanism I guess.

I am hesitant to say this as you will all think I am making excuses for him, which I am not. He had a pretty fucked up childhood.
His step dad used to beat him etc etc.

It is awful to witness as you can see he has such a passion for life, but takes anything "negative" towards him so personally, so extremely. Not sure that makes sense.

Gracie123, I appreciate your kind words.

Tbh I guessed his childhood must have been bad as soon as you described the whole 'red mist' and lack of control over his behaviour. Sounds mildly dissociative (stepping back and letting other 'alter' take control - usually a result of trauma).
Really encourage him to speak to GP about it because there are plenty of very helpful therapies if he is (including hypnosis, EMDR etc...)

You said in one of your posts here "I just feel that if he wants to change and is willing to change shouldn't I try and support him and give this family a chance?".

Here's why you shouldn't:

"Last night he crossed a line in that he said things to DS that are unacceptable and, frankly, possibly damaging to DS in terms of self esteem and guilt".

The trouble is, you won't see exactly how far wrong this all is until there is space and time between you - real space and time, not just one of you spending a week at friends or family til it's patched over.

Love doesn't hurt - to coin a cliche. Yes, there's grumps, spats, sulks, irritation here and there - but all occasionally, in moderation. The big stuff like this wouldn't be happening if the relationship was healthy and had the right boundaries of respect.

He probably does love you BUT he also can't help being very unpleasant to you (and your DS) when it suits. That kind of overrides the love element because the two don't go hand in hand.

I don't think that because you are pg you should accept something you're not happy about. The more pg you are, the more vulnerable and in need of his support - he'll know that, consciously or subconsiously.

There's a book called Dangerous Relationships link here. This is excellent and will help to explain how and why manipulative, controlling partners can move in on our psyche so we accept and find excuses for their bad behaviour almost without realising.

Yeah, sorry, I do get a bit harsh on this topic.

Look, you are not thinking straight because the abuse make you think funny stuff like-

"Thing is I battle to distinguish between an anger control problem and emotional abuse. He only does it when something angers him, so he is not constantly doing it." So by that rational if I'm angry I can go next door and tear a strip off the little old man that lives there. As long as I don't do it constantly, then him and his family should be alright with that and not call the police.

"He encourages me to be independant etc etc so not controlling generally." You and your child just can't disagree with him or he'll control you with fear and intimidation. He'll destroy you both mentally to make himself feel better. His wife and child.

You see.

Follow Mcfluffles advice and speak to Womans Aid, at least then you've got some support and you'll know your options. Good luck. I'm not going to post anymore because it upsets me. You asked if anyone had a success story about a situation like this. I've got one -

My mum divorced him. Us and the rest of the family never speak to or see him. He's a poisonous old b*** who will die alone. We are happy.

Success.

Where does he go to when he went off last time for a few days? And now he has gone off again. I'm sorry you are faced with this and you are pregnant. And this is how he deals with a problem. Take care of you and your DS and forthcoming baby; he is not being caring and supportive is he behaving like that.

Gracie, as one Grace to another - you said you don't have experience of this, and it shows in your replies. I've had hypnosis, CBT and other quick-fix therapies. Whilst they've proved helpful in the greater scheme of things, nothing short of long-term soul-digging can repair the damages done by my childhood. In summary, this is because my childhood taught me that love does hurt. It's the only childhood I had - with what resources would I suddenly learn how to be like people who grew up in an emotionally balanced environment?

QQ, your H firing off at whatever/whoever is in front of him when things don't go his way - and doing a runner when he's called on it - suggest a really big problem with personal responsibility. Are you able to think on this just now? (Don't worry if not, it can wait!)

You can give your family a chance by making sure he is not in it.

Maybe one day he will be fit to join you again, but your first responsibilty is not to him, or keeping the family together. It is to your son and making sure he isn't damaged further.

I said I didn't have any experience of being married to someone emotionally abusive!
I only know about the treatments because I am dissociative due to childhood trauma. I am on a waiting list, but have met others who have had it and are completely healed. I'm not going to say it's quick or easy, I understand it will take a long time - that's why I recommend a separation - but it shouldn't mean she can't choose to work at her relationship or believe that things will get better.

I am hesitant to say this as you will all think I am making excuses for him, which I am not. He had a pretty fucked up childhood.

So you will stand by while he fucks up his own son's childhood ?

Bottom line...while you stay with this man you are prioritising your relationship with an abuser over your own son.

Does that sit well with you ?

I am NOT intending to stand by, please don't be so hard on me.
I told you all he crossed the line last night it has been 24 hours and I am trying to think clearly here.
I am in a bit of shock if I am honest.

I am not sure I should have posted, this is too upsetting right now.

I tried with my ex who has been EA me for the last year. Not that I totally realise dit as I rationalised everything.

He got back on touch a few days ago, full of remorse and wanting to change. I let him on but kept my distance, and lo and behold because I wasn't singing to the same tune anymore and was being cautious he had a five year old stylee tantrum, accused me of rejecting him (due to one line I wrote about not wanting to jump into anything) and threatened to break off all contact unless I could 'reassure' him. (oh and ensure I was speaking to no one else but him, naturally he was not going to recirpocate..the reaosn? I had hurt him so bad he needed my monogamy to prove sometihng. Wanker).

Yea. I cut him off and I do not regret it. Lessen learned? Leopards and spots..don;t change.

I;m sorry but I think the only answer is to leave right now. IF he seeks help then it has to be away from where he can do more damage to your or your children. Kids remember put downs and so on and the damage can last a lifetime. Seriously.

Good luck.

Sorry for the typos this subject gets me riled. x

OP, it is upsetting to everyone to hear about a child being treated so badly.

Qwerty - sorry if my posts sounded harsh, they were not meant that way. They were said with a soft voice. I was just trying to help you to see your situation more clearly, not berate you for your confusion.

Hence the question - do you think your vulnerable state means you should put up with more shit than you might otherwise?

There is a whole culture screaming at you that you should. I don't think you are stupid or weak for not knowing.

I'm just casting it in the terms I think are most likely to speak clearly to you - the welfare of your boy.

Of course it's shocking to read, but it is not coming with blame attached. I promise.