emotional abuse - what, if any "treatment": can help?

[QwertyQueen]

OK,
I don't want to into the whole thing right not but DH is emotionally abusive to me and, now, DS.
The usual Jekyll/Hyde thing - so charming when things good - complete monster when not. Not in the sense of hitting although he can be intimidating but it is more the words, and the damage they do.
Last night he crossed a line in that he said things to DS that are unacceptable and, frankly, possibly damaging to DS in terms of self esteem and guilt.
So DH disappeared last night in a rage as I didn't back him up and I told him I would never back up behaviour like that. Hasn't been home.
Last time he was away a few days.
When he returned he accepted he has a problem and agreed to counselling.
This time... well, I am not sure if he will return... I am not sure I should encourage him to. But I am pregnant so I guess I should be open to it if he is still willing to try and sort himself out. Not sure I can get over it though.

Anyway, my question is:
what treatment(s) would be best for him, assuming he is still willing to try. I have heard couples counselling doesn't work.
Any ideas where to start?
Any success stories out there?
I think he does love me, although as a rational person I can't accept someone would treat someone they love this way.
Really confused and not sure which way to turn
TIA

Ok, here goes.

My h became emotionally abusive. It was complicated by a very weird situation with my deeply, deeply dysfunctional family, and my NPD mother.

He was always a little controlling in the sense that he only really trusted people from his own world and was reluctant to accept anyone new.

It reached a point where he lost a massive work contract, that he started to take it out on the children. I asked him to leave and we lived apart for around seven months.

I cut off ALL contact with my family.

I insisted that H emabark on long term therapy.
I had therapy, two lots and attended the Freedom programme.

Ten months on. I am signed off. He is still in therapy. He is living with us again. He accepts that his behaviour was abusive and has finally told the truth about his own childhood.

He is much better, and doesn't slip back too badly. Only a couple of "blaming me" incidents, and my response is now radically different to the way it was. I simply DO NOT ACCEPT IT. Not from him, and not from anybody.

BUT!!!!!!!

There is a VERY, VERY, VERY long way to go.

He is suffering from severe trauma and cptsd from his own childhood. Which is dead sad, but NOT MY PROBLEM!

His therapist as a freedom programme facilitator, so is unlikely to be fooled or charmed.

Women's aid reckon two years, but I agree with Grace. I think that when you have had such a hideous upbringing , as H and I both did, (which of course is why we chose each other) it is going to take a lifetime to get over it.

Wow, great post thisis

hope you are ok Qwerty

I do not under estimate how much more work there is to do. I could NOT have done my bit without MN.

I accept that it could all end in tears but I am committed to the process for three main reasons.

1: I have changed. My inner child therapy has had a deep and profound affect on me and the meaning of who I am. I am now solid in my own identity, and have pretty good boundaries. This has been MY work.

2: The precondition to him coming back was a deep committment to his own therapuetic process, which he is doing. He is finding it harder than me. He is still in contact with his family.

3: As I said, I am aware that we chose each other for these very reasons, and there is every chance that I will choose someone from a dysfunctional background again. If it's all about modelling, then our kids are learning that there is no shame in therapy, or asking for help or having "problems", and that those things can be and should be addressed.

I know now that I am an incredible human being, coming through what I have, with my kids, not only in tact, but happy, popular and achieving.

I did that. :)

It's the hardest thing ever.

Having read this thread through in 1 go, I really feel for you qwerty. It can be really hard to hear people comment on your situation in such a way. I hope you're OK.

Are you able to say what comments your DH made to DS and how your DS reacted and is feeling now? I do not want to minimise emotional abuse in any way, but surely this type of behaviour spans a whole spectrum from cranky at the mildest end to abusive. And surely not all behaviours that you might term emotionally abusive, go on being part of a pattern? Maybe they can exist in isolation? I'm probably not explaining this well, but I felt my DH might have been emotionally abusive to myself mainly, with 1 or 2 incidents to our DS. I explained these incidents to our couple counsellor (who knows us quite well now having provided counselling for 6 months or so). I had this one-off session with her about this issue. After explaining these incidents, I asked her did she think DH was emotionally abusive. She said not. She thought he responded in the way he had due to 'a pattern of learned behaviour' that was hard to change, but certainly possible.

She has now started that process of tackling the learned behaviour through setting boundaries, expressing feelings openly, being clear about expectations and in particular getting him to own his anger and see that he has choices in the way he responds to what he sees as provocation. He has changed and I think will go on doing so.

This whole process is not easy. For him, it's painful to realive childhood abuse and realise he was hurting his own son in the way his father had hurt him. For me, it's painful to feel I need to state and reinforce these boundaries - I think HTF did I fall in love with a man with such a degree of emotional shit? I come from one of the calmest, more rational families you could hope to meet and have no experience of this type of shouting, aggression, sarcasm whatsoever. But sometimes it feels right to hold on to hope that someone can change and belief in the capacity of another human being to overcome huge hurdles in their life to develop the close, safe relationships they didn't have themselves.

I had a shit upbringing but I did not go on to abuse anyone, let alone my children.

In fact, I went on to be abused by my partners.

I am not an abuser, but I am now in psychotherapy which will take years of painful work, and will not 'cure me' of my ills.

I am self-aware and more than knowing of my own faults, and I have a huge desire to get 'better'. But it will still take years to change my mind-set. If it does at all.

When I was a child I had nobody...absolutely no person on earth was in my corner. My mother saw what my father did, and stood by and did nothing. In fact she backed him up on many an occasion.

I hate her almost more than I hated him.

What I am saying is that your children only have you to look out for them. Even if your H is 'only' abusing you and not them, the situation is dire. When he starts on them too, well, then you have to act.

If your children grow up watching how he treats you, this is how they will think relationships work. If your children grow up being abused themselves, and you know this is happening, they will be very damaged.

If your H is a good person, he will go away and work on himself. He won't mind being asked to do this as he will understand the importance of what he has to do. If he refuses to look into himself, then you have your answer as to what course to take.

When you are in this situation you are blinded for all sorts of reasons. After you have emerged from the hell, you can look back with a clear view and see what you have escaped from.

You have my every sympathy, the lightbilb moment is always a terrible shock. But you have the knowledge now to act, and save your children.

I can't add anything to either the leave or stay arguments, only this.

My dm said to me 'you don't deserve anything'. That was in December 1958.

I still don't.

in around 1980, my father said, just as the family were getting ready to go out, "is she coming (about my adolescent self) ? Does she have to? She cramps my style...."

I hate him.

I also hate my mother for allowing all those tiny hurts. My childhood was cut by a million of them.

I'm in a similar situation to Thisis.

H and I are both in therapy now for over a year (separately). It's a very hard slog but there are big improvements.
H comes from dysfunctional family - NPD father, alcoholic mother that separated when he was very young.
I've had depression since a young teen and have my own issues with my parents.

Like Thisis - it is now very obvious to me why we ended up together.

OP - You are not yet at the starting position that I was when H and I started this process.

You say that you have problems separating ANGER CONTROL ISSUES from EMOTIONAL ABUSE -
There is no reason to separate these issues. Until you make the connection between your husbands behaviour and abuse (i.e. no excuses) you will struggle.

You own personal boundries are extremely weak as you do not yet understand that abuse is abuse regardless of the reason behind it.

You need to avoid taking your husbands perspective on everything. Once you realise that you DO NOT DESERVE to be treated badly full stop - then you will be on a sounder footing.

needafootmassage Blimey, thanks! That's twice someone from MN has blown me away today!

xxxxx

thisishowifeel

I am interested in your story. Do you think it is worth all the effort that you are putting in?

Two years to turn an abuser around? Wow.

I am also interested in the fact that there seems to be a general feeling in some of these posts that the victim of an abuser is somehow responsble for their abuse because they don't have the correct attitude to their abuser?

I have changed my attitude as a victim, or should I say I AM changing my attitude, (it will take much longer than 2 years!), but my abusers carry merrily on in their own ways...

Actually that is not quite true...since I changed MY attitude, their abuse has escalated, such is their rage at my new assertiveness.

Can anyone explain this? Why are your abusers so different from mine?

Actually gaig you have raised some interesting points there.

I don't know why WA said two years, I reckon different people have different stories and motivations.

I come from a deeply dysfunctional family, and was lucky enough to have inner child therapy on the NHS. This has set in me, boundaries, not just for h, but for the whole world. I will not tolerate stuff that I didn't even notice happening before.

I was the scapegoat in my family system, but will no longer take on board ANYONE's shit. It is not my problem, not my responsibility and certainly not my fault.

Nothing to do with any one individual, but everyone I come into contact with, in any way. If people do not treat me with complete respect, they cannot be in my life.

So in that sense I was not responsible for any abuse I got from my family, but it was the system that was born into, and new no different. I have re-parented myself with love and care.

It's actually got nothing to do with anyone else, which was an alien concept to me as little as twelve months ago. It's about ME!

I think that we are lucky in that his therapist is a freedom programme facilitator, so knows the patterns and pitfalls.

It is not easy. He has reached a point where he has to question not only his attitudes, but those of everyone around him, and it's all too tempting to "blame" me for him having to do this. Of course he doesn't HAVE to, he could just walk away, but if he wants to be in my life, I must....MUST be treated with love and respect at all times.

Other people have said recently that love is doing, not being or merely saying.

In that sense there is love, as we are both commited to this process, however dark it gets sometimes. It can only get better, IF we stick with it, keep working at it, and recognise any slipping back into lazy behaviours, especially blaming. I belive that he wants to work his stuff out, he is motivated and committed.

Often I wish there was somewhere like MN for men to go. This place has been so staggeringly amazing, informative, enlightening and supportive. I know that men are welcome, but there is no place quite like this for enlightenment from a very female perspective.

We have found www.petewalker.com very tough, but incredibly useful.

I'm yet another one to add to the list - by the end of it I was wishing he would hit me. Because then I would have a tangible sign that he was abusive.

I think it is exceptionally unusual for abusive partners to recognise their behaviour and its impacts, so recognise the possible benefits of therapy. The examples here are unusual and somthing about the person who is being abused 'accepting' they have 'faults' leaves me feeling a little uneasy.

My ex was at the extreme end of the spectrum, but he also encouraged me to be independent etc. But it was all superficial and very, very manipulative.

Remind me, did your partner take any decisive action such as go into therapy after the last incident? I ended up spending a month in hospital after I physically collapsed from the stress of trying to give him (yet) another chance. My four year old daughter told me later she thought I was going to die and he would only let me see her once a week. The upshot was that he started on ADs and seeing a counsellor after I came home because my having been sick was so stressful for him. He saw nothing in his own behaviour that contributed to the situation.

With the help of friends, my GP, consultants, WA and the police I left 18 months ago. I bitterly regret wasting my 30s on him and only geting away on my third attempt.

I too have the textbook abusive and traumatic childhood. Please don't be me.

I don't see it having "faults", but I have had issues to address because of the way my family system works. I fi did not address my own issues, I could move on to abusive relationship after abusive relationship. We know that this happens.

I think that part of being a grown up, means accepting responsibility.

I found this very hard at first. I don't see it as a fault, more a consequence that needed to be dealt with.

In the end it is in fact liberating. It;'s very freeing to be detached from my own unhealthy legacy. Nothing whatever to do with anyone else.

I have also found my friendships are more numerous and fun too. I am more relaxed and affectionate with the people in my life.

Do you have children thisis?

Sorry I see that you do. How do they feel about all this effort? How do they feel about their father?

Qwerty are you OK?

It can be really really hard to start a post on here and I have sometimes wished to disappear from mine once they were in full flight.

But people are trying to help you understand the situation you're in as it can be impossible from within to get a clear vision.

You could be very shocked right now, in a kind of lightbulb, yes my DP has been emotionally abusing me and now DS, and these are the very real and frightening consequences for DS in the future. In which case like spikoodly says, comments are not said with blame attached to you, just wanting to help you recognise EA.

Or you could have disappeared because you think the EA label is not entirely accurate in describing what actually happens with your DP.

Whatever reason, do come back if you can

I don't want to rehash everything I've written on other threads, but would like to say I don't see it as my fault that I've been abused through so much of my life - nor, in fact, that I have abused others. I see it as a chain of cause & effect, which - once I understood it - I had the option to break. If I abuse anyone ever again, it will be my fault because I'll be aware of the processes in action.

The temptation to allot blame is irresistible, especially where you're looking at a clear abuser-victim scenario. As Lundy Bancroft has demonstrated, many abusers DO know exactly what they're doing. There are also many who (like me) are acting out unconscious scripts. I would say the majority of victims, also, are acting out family scripts. This means "blame" is inappropriate; it does not mean the situation should be tolerated.

I'm not sure whether to post this; I don't think I've explained myself as clearly as I could. Please let me stress, QQ, there is ho hope at all of bringing about this change in one's partner. What you can aim to do is change your own 'scripts', both the ones you grew up with and the ones your adult relationships have taught you. This is something you must do for yourself only, and it will benefit DS. But you can't do it while you are still trapped in your husband's screenplay.

"If I abuse anyone ever again, it will be my fault because I'll be aware of the processes in action."

So then if you abuse someone and you are apparantly unaware of the processes in action...it is not your fault?

Are you saying then, that it's not a psychopath's fault as s/he is unaware of why they murder people...to take one example.

But for some reason it IS the victim's fault because their responses to the abuser are incorrect.

The victim may be equally 'unaware of the processes'.

As I have already stated, my abusers got WORSE when I became 'aware of the processes'. And I was not hanging around to find out where that would end, for me or my children.

No. I shouldn't have hit Send after all.

I think it would be a very great shame for qwerty if she felt unable to come back to her thread for fear of saying the wrong thing, upsetting someone or getting a harsh reaction and further upsetting herself.

Can the analysis of abuse and blame be left for now, or until qwerty has come back and we know if she's OK and able to cope with whatever it is she's trying to cope with?

See, loves2 all the time you are having your couples couselling , and telling other people that they can expect their abuser to change...they are wasting precious time which is far better spent bringing up their own children free of abuse.

And, yes, abusers do work to a pattern. And, yes, most of them had terrible upbringings.

And as far as I can see, no-one is upset on this thread, except perhaps the OP, who asked for our opinions.

Sadly, those of us who have gone through this have some quite strong opinions. And we do not want the OP to think that if she changes her behaviour then her H will miraculously become the man she thought she had married.

If you as a person with no children chooses to live with your abuser, and pander to his/her whims, then fair enough. Your children, however have no such choice.

It is very shocking indeed to realise that you have been/ are being abused. I had a complete breakdown , as do others , when we have that lightbulb moment.

That is no reason not to tell the truth as we see it, if it can help just one child escape our experiences, and resulting mental health issues.

Yes I can see that. Of course it is better than OP hears the reality from people who have experienced this rather than water it down as a way of trying to protect her. I know what you're saying icy.

I just that maybe the more complex analysis of abuse and the blame /victim issue might be too much for the OP. Just that she has gone quiet and it now feels as though we are talking behind her back - me included.

I don't ever say abusers can change- I don't know if an individual who is abusive ever can or can't change. But in my situation, I am currently hopeful. I may feel differently in 6 months if the behaviours that are abusive return.

But maybe change is more likely if the original behaviours were of the milder type and there is much remorse shown for those behaviours.

Well I sincerely hope for your sake that change does come.

The trouble is, that reading a thread like this, where it appears that people are actually blaming the victim, is not very good for my blood pressure.

And it is not at all good for the OP either. Victims of abuse spend their whole time blaming themselves...if only I was prettier, younger, a better house keeper, kept my mouth shut more....

Of course one can do all those things, and more...and the abuser finds something else to throw a strop at...

Until finally, they start on the children.

And that, often, is when the other parent finally finds some strength from somewhere, and tries to get help.

And good for them...they need all the help they can get. But they do not need rosy tinted specs, and false hope.

Please come back OP. We are all in your court. Honestly, from here, the only way is up.

loves2 I think you are really brave and patient and compassionate to be willing to go to all that effort with an EA partner.

All the people saying you are wasting time etc... Dot understand that love is patient and long suffering. If you didn't love your partner (hopefully) you wouldn't have had kids with him!

I think you are doing the right thing, taking time separately to get healed, but not giving up on him completely. He will appreciate your devotion an commitment too if he has never been shown it before.

I know I'm going to get a lot of criticism for this post, but just wanted you to know that there is more than one opinion regarding your choices.

Good luck, stay strong!