I cannot tell if I am overreacting by wanting a divorce or not...

[SalFresco]

...and would appreciate advice.

Basically, DH and I have two DS's. We have been togther since we were teenagers, today is our tenth wedding anniversary. I have been away overnight for work (a very rare occurance) rushed back today so that we could see the DS's and go out for our anniversary. DS's were at nursery / afterschool care, DH was at home, he'd taken the day off and said he was going to tidy up / cook tea / etc. I get home half an hour before we were due to pick DS's up to find DH paraletically drunk. This is something that happens every few months. The last time was 2 weeks ago, when he was drinking while looking after our 1.5 year old. He has now passed out in the bedroom, and I am sitting here looking up how to get a divorce.

When he is not drinking or being an arse, we get on well, and he is good with the DS's.

Am I overreacting?

Thank you AF
Becuase together we have somehow colluded in keeping this quiet from family members and friends, (or, I guess, so we think...) I do feel very isolated, and nothing has really been got out in the open - it just goes round in circles.

I am taking all your advice on board.

How is it dangerous to try to work things out together?

My opinion differs from yours. I feel that partners should try all avenues to work on their issues.

I read OP's responses as she get's fed up of his behaviour, tells him unaccepatable, he tries for a bit then fails (worse each time).

That's not working together, that's working against each other. Without the tools to resolve things, it will of course spiral.

I really don't care what you belive of my life. My partner and I have been through a lot and have worked it out with some excellent help. We seperated for a period of time - it was our incentive to sort it. I grew up with an alcoholic. It was a very different experience to DH and his problem drinking.

pinkie, usually I would agree with this. But this is a man who gets drunk when in sole charge of their children.

Sal has to act and get him out of the house before social services tear her entire family apart.

"We seperated for a period of time - it was our incentive to sort it." Pinkie, this is exactly what everybody is advising Op to do.

RTD, you hit the nail on the head there

it is not irrepairable, not yet

but carrying on in the same way is not going to repair anything, it is going to destroy all of you

sal..I was going to suggest you had been keeping all this a secret, like something shameful

it isn't shameful and you must must must start to disclose now

keeping yourself isolated from help and support was a massive mistake, I hope you fully realise that

I suggest it won't be quite the "shock" you think for friends and family though..

I agree she needs to act - I don't think it has to be him out of the house but that would be the quickest option. I would not leave him alone with DC though.

pinkie...you are completely contradicting yourself. You said you separated for a while...that is the exact same advice given here. No-one is telling OP her marriage is irrevocably over. Read the thread.

I agreed earlier he needs an incentive. I know you're all suggesting him out as first option. It would not be my first choice again due to the way it went immediately after DH left. It took even longer to come back from the destructive behaviour he exhibited on our seperation.

Maybe show him this thread, maybe stage a family/friend intervention/ maybe get in childaare and the shame of being an unfit Dad will motivate him. Sal knows her DH best, if seperation is best for her she will know that deep down.

separation seems to be the only option she has now...bearing in mind she has given him many ultimatums before

Ultimatums don't work in most cases though do they - it's all good intentions.

and he is to blame for that

pinkie...it is this sort of pressure that makes women stick with a bloke who is destroying his family way past when she should

the "marriage vows are for life" "you should support your man (but not your children... ) "you made your bed" brigade

it is destructive, and keeps vulnerable paralysed and the women who peddle it should be ashamed of themselves

Pinkieminx, your experience with Relate is the polar opposite of mine. The Relate counsellor I and my (then) DP went to said that she couldn't help us as a couple while my DP's alcohol problems were continuing. The alcohol issues overwhelm everything else. But the counsellor did say that she would be willing to see me on my own.

And I absolutely agree with AF - if he did use separation as an excuse to drink excessively then that would be his choice. He might also see it as the wake-up call he needs. More to the point, he's not separated now but he's drinking excessively already so it's not as if it would be a massive change if he continued to do so.

OP, I'm really sorry that you're facing this. As I think you realise, you've drawn the line in the sand so many times and then not backed it up that he no longer believes you. He likely feels that he just has to trot out the same old excuses and apologies and then everything will go back to normal. Meanwhile you're walking on eggshells not wanting to break the fragile peace because you know how bad it can get when he decides to get shit-faced.

But do know this - Social Services would be on you like a ton of bricks if they thought you were knowingly leaving your DCs in the care of someone with a history of getting pissed while in sole care.

Earlier on you said "...nothing is going to change if we carry on as we are." That is a very accurate and important thing to realise. Right now he doesn't want to change because what's in it for him? He gets to get shit-faced whenever he wants. So the person who has to instigate a change is you. That doesn't necessarily mean divorce but it does need to be something significant enough that there is a positive change in your life and that of your children.

I've been where you are. I know how much stress and worry is caused by wondering if, when you get home from work, you'll be faced with a drunk DP and unhappy children. Life shouldn't be like that. It doesn't have to be like that. But you need to be the one to start the ball rolling in a different direction.

I'd recommend you get in touch with your local <a class="break-all" href="//url=www.al-anonuk.org.uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Al Anon group. Al Anon is the "friends and family" offshoot of Alcoholics Anonymous. You won't get lectures about how to get your DP to stop drinking. That is not in your power to do. That's down to him. What you will get is help and support to find ways to reduce the effects his drink problems have on you and your DCs.

vulnerable women

Sal

The 3cs re alcoholism

You did not cause it
You cannot cure it
You cannot control it

You have been firefighting this problem of his for the last 15 years; you do not want to spend the next 15 waiting to see if he has an epiphany or not.

There are no guarantees here; he could go onto lose everything and he could still drink. You cannot help or rescue him here; he has to want to help his own self.

Alcoholism as well thrives on secrecy; you need to get his problem out in the open now. Am certain that some family and friends have their suspicions re his drinking.

You enable him by covering up for him. You cannot do that for him any more as enabling only gives you a false sense of control.

It will not do your children any favours either to grow up in a household where a parent has a drink problem, it will affect them markedly as it has you already.

You need to call Al-anon and read their literature; with alcoholism the whole family need support. You can help yourself by doing that.

There are often elements of codependency within such situations; would suggest you read "Codependent No More" written by Melodie Davies.

Ultimatums if either repeatedly given or not followed through lose all their power. You can only issue such a thing once.

I would personally separate from him completely, he will only drag you all down with him into his pit and he is dragging you down now.

I am not suggesting OP takes shit for the rest of her life. Get a grip. I am also not pressuring anyone into staying for his sake.

I agree something needs to change but I feel there are avenues to try if Op doesn't want to seperate, which she would be well within her rights to do, due to DH's utterly unaccepatable behaviour. Just because he is to blame for his behaviour (which he is OP - all his choice) doesn't mean OP shouldn't or wouldn't want to help him.

I fell in love with DH, he had huge issues and we chose to work them out together. I hated seeing someone I loved destroy themselves. I didn't work on it for some warped ideal - i did it for me, for DH, for DC, for lots of reasons.

Life is obviously more 'grey' for some than for others.

Sal, this thread is moving a lot faster than my typing abilities

The collusion in keeping it a secret is very, very common. But you need to tell the people who are close to you. His drink problems are not your fault. They're not even your responsibility. You have nothing to feel ashamed of.

Perhaps one of the most important changes in perspective that one can make when in a relationship with someone with drink/drug problems is to start making decisions based on what is best for you. It is all too easy to fall into a habit of making decisions based on what effect we think those decisions will have on the other person's drinking.

But, while done for the best of intentions, that's a downright crap way to live your live. Your own wants and needs go by the way-side, swamped by doing what you feel you need to do to try to control what someone else is choosing to do. But you can't control his drinking for him. It doesn't work like that.

Look at it this way - he's spending family money on a drug that is causing him to neglect his parental duties and to abdicate himself from the relationship. If that drug was heroin rather than alcohol, how would you feel about him?

being drunk in charge of your own children is not a "grey" area

I would think a child protection team takes that view too (quite rightly)

pinkie...are you ignoring that utterly crucial part of this scenario for a particular reason ?

Thought utterly unacceptable behaviour covered it AF!?

I don't see your point then, pinkie

or are you arguing in more general terms ie. about a situation that isn't actually related to the OP at all?

because that would be a bit insensitive, wouldn't it ?

I don't see your point and would urge you to take your own advice and read the thread.

Good luck Sal

It is very dangerous, and naive, to generalize when children are at risk.

pinkie..we should stop engaging with each other

it is derailing the thread and I feel the points you are making are all about you not the OP

I shall offer you the last word and then leave it, hope you can do the same

I totally agree with AF.

This isn't something to tiptoe around. He drinks. Whilst in charge of a young child. A defenceless toddler. The father, responsible for his well being is drunk. Things are getting worse. Next time something awful could happen. Something awful could've happened last time.

I'm not sure how it could be any clearer.

I don't really know about alcoholism so I won't comment there but I will tell you this - if it were me there would be no way in hell I would let him look after my child on Thursday or again until he had some help and had been booze free for quite some time....