Help! Am I getting prepped to be dumped?

[Nogoodatthis]

Been seeing a wonderful guy for about 6 weeks now. He's very kind, affectionate, considerate, sex is the best I've ever had... but he's not very engaged I suppose is the best way I can put it. Like, he never really asks me things about me or what I'm thinking, we banter and get on great but don't really scratch the surface - hopes dreams, etc.

Anyway, saw him last night, was great, he cooked for me, we made love twice, watched a movie, etc. But this morning when we were getting ready together for work, it was really subtle but I felt like he wasn't as affectionate as usual, he felt a bit detached. It sounds silly but normally as I'm brushing my teeth he'd come and hug me from behind or as we're passing each other in the doorway he'll give me a quick squeeze but there was none of that this morning. I felt like I was making all the moves and being a bit clingy. As we were leaving his flat for work, we normally kiss at the gates and agree the next date that we'll see each other. We'd already spoken about meeting on Thursday so he kissed me really passionately as usual but then was all, "So I'll see you Thursday then, PROBABLY, as I just remembered I've got to take my car to the garage..." blah blah blah.

So I'm thinking 'probably'?! It's gone from the previous night's conversation of definitely seeing each other on Thursday to now probably seeing me Thursday? What does that mean? Sounds like he's setting himself up for a get out clause nearer the time right? If I don't see him on Thursday then I won't see him for ages because he's taking his kids on holiday all of next week.

Also, yesterday he was going on about how stressed he was about being so disorganised and how he had so much to do around the house, packing for the holiday, plus he's got a business trip this week, etc, etc. And the whole time I'm thinking 'is this a way of him saying he's too busy to see me?'

Am I just being really selfish and insecure? Or does it sound to you like he's cooling off and is trying to signal to me he wants some space?

I've been very good, I'm not the sort of person who texts him 10 times a day or anything, I guess I just feel really insecure because I don't know where I stand and we're about to have a long period apart and I know I'll really miss him but I actually don't really have any idea how he feels about me.

What would you do? Should I see whether he does in fact bail on me on Thursday or should I call him before then and talk to him about how I'm feeling?

Sorry this is long.

Yes, the general consensus on here and amongst my (long suffering) real life girlfriends does rather tend to be that I am massively insecure and over analysing everything way too much.

Thank you all so much for giving me a good slap round the chops and telling me to get a grip. I had some strong words with myself last night and feel a million times better about everything today.

It could have been me writing your OP. In my current relationship I suffered (and I mean SUFFERED) massive insecurity. I constantly felt like things were about to go wrong or end. He, like your bloke, was lovely but didn't really talk about his feelings. I'd left a long relationship to be with him so there was this unspoken thing that it had to be serious and potentially permanent which I think added to the pressure.
Turns out he was just a bit crap at talking about feelings and didn't realise I was suffering, and also being a bit protective of himself. We're very happy now, two years on, and about to get married. He's still not as eloquant as me when it comes to discussing feelings :)

Aww xkittyx, what a lovely post, I'm so glad everything worked out for you.

I'm slowly learning with this new guy that he's just very straightforward - disarmingly so sometimes (he doesn't tend to embarrass easily) - and that when he says something, that's what he means.

I spent so many years with someone who got a big kick out of playing mind games with me and who I had to constantly second guess and look for ulterior motives in his behaviour, that I don't actually know how to take stuff at face value any more.

I'll get there eventually...

Buy the book "He's Just Not That Into You". Really helps to interpret signals, but it's also funny. Take with a pinch of salt maybe but as another poster said, men who are keen will not have any difficulty showing it.

Thanks Nogoodatthis :-)
If he's a straight down the line kind of man then I think he would have told you if he didn't want to keep seeing you. It sounds like things are going well but because you are paranoid and not sure where you stand, you are trying to read things into every little gesture. I know, I've been there!
I actually wouldn't bother with "He's just not that into you" as the author has no formal training or background in therapy.
I would say keep going the way you are now and in a few more weeks if things are not clearer, just bring up the topic of where the relationship is going.
There's nothing wrong with wanting a serious relationship or wanting to know where you stand.
Hope it works out for you!

I've made this mistake myself so many times before, getting physically involved with a guy before I really know him and because I'm a woman that means I'm emotionally involved and on the back foot.

It's quite simple really. If you're after something "meaningful", don't enter into a sexual relationship until you know pretty well you can rely on him. I hope this doesn't sound harsh and it's taken me a LOT of years to work it out.

Sorry DIpso but that's awful advice. No woman should use her fanjo as a doggy treat that the man can only 'win' by committing. ANd (again) nice men will not appreciate the game-playing, nasty ones will get a kick out of strining the woman along until they get a shag and then dump her.

I think you've totally misunderstood me. I'm not talking about witholding anything or trying to control a man. I'm talking about looking after myself and not leaping into bed with a man before I know him pretty damn well because when I have sex with a man I get emotionally involved. I'm talking about taking it slowly and giving myself a fighting chance. But of course that's just my opinion.

I agree with you Dipso. SGB you're right about not making it a thing to be 'won' but then the only blokes who saw it as me 'witholding' and got impatient about it were the ones I ended up realising were only in it for that anyway.

You should be able to have a great relationship with someone without it being an issue for a while. If they act like you're being unfair and sulk about it, you ditch them anyway.

If they make it clear they want to be with you and take it at your pace, you can find out how well you get on and then have sex.

But Dipso and EnnisDelMar, don't you find it difficult to wait sometimes? If I really like someone and am really attracted to them, I want to have sex just as much as they do.

I agree with SGB. I think women are often encouraged to try to use sex as a weapon with which to manipulate men. Are we really so powerless in our relationships with men that we need to do this? You cannot trick a man into loving or committing to you by using or withholding sex.

If a man likes and wants you, then he likes and wants you. A man who doesn't isn't going to have his mind changed because you refuse to 'put out' until date 10 or whatever, and a man who does isn't going to be put off because you wanted him so much you had sex with him on date 2.

Tch. I think it's generally better to have sex first and find out if they're any good at it. Awful disappointment if you hang on all misty eyed for months and then find the reason the bloke was in no rush for sex is because he's got next to no libido, or is a closet homosexual with grimly traditional attitudes who wants a female accessory to make him look respectable, or something.

Yes. Agree that it is important to find out your sexual compatibility. I am a straight-foward kind of person and would never play mind games with sex etc. When I met my partner on our first evening together he tried to have sex with me. I was not comfortable about this and said so and it did not happen that soon. I suppose we are all different and I was never into one-night stands and wouldn't feel comfortable enough to have sex on the first date with anyone. And yes, I do like sex - just not that soon. But, everyone is different. Just my experience.

You don't understand though - it isn't about manipulation, not at all. You can both really want to have sex but not until you're sure you know the person's intentions - and whether you're compatible in what you want in other ways.

I did this with two people who I really found to be great, very compatible, and we had long relationships - we just knew there was a lot more to our 'making love' than the sexual part, so we spent days and days and nights talking, just hanging around, doing stuff other than having sex. And then we got round to having sex and of course it was great because we desired each other in more ways than just physically I suppose.

The other relationships I have had, I felt immmediately that there was pressure to have sex, and I didn't take time to get to know the people and therefore the sex wasn't that good because it was just sex - there was a hesitant feel to the rest of the relationship. And it turned out that it wouldn't have worked, then I felt awful for having had sex with someone so different to myself.

I think if you 'know' you have a great relationship to start with, then there's no harm in having sex straight away if that's what you want - but there's often no need to. It's more about getting to know the other person mentally, emotionally, etc because spending any sort of time with them is just good fun and makes you feel validated.
I find it's the ones you can go weeks or months without absolutely needing to shag that are the best - because you're already having such a great time with them, sex isn't that relevant.

iyswim

and if any bloke tells me I am 'manipulating' him or 'making him wait' or worse still, 'wearing cast iron pants', he is history.

Sometimes you have such great chemistry with someone that you just have to jump their bones asap. I've done the 'wait and get to really know each other before getting physical' thing and he thought I wasn't interested so he ended it.

I stress: he didn't end it because I wouldn't sleep with him and that's all he was after, he ended it because (as he told me later because we're on friendly terms still) he thought I didn't fancy him and wasn't interested.

I think you have to think to yourself 'if I sleep with him and then he does turn out to be an asshole/doesn't call me/whatever, will I be able to handle it?' - if the answer is 'yes', then fill your boots. If the answer is 'no', then you probably shouldn't be dating imo. Not fair to put yourself out on the dating scene and then make some guy jump through hoops to make some unspoken promise to you that he's not going to change his mind once you've had sex.

Who's to say that once you've opened the sexual floodgates, the woman's not going to be the one that suddenly goes cold? Should the man have waited longer before before sleeping with her to make sure she's 'reliable'?

Dating by its nature involves trusting relative strangers with your most vulnerable emotions (to a certain extent and within reason). That's the risk. If you're not prepared to take it yet, then don't date until you are.

'Not fair to put yourself out on the dating scene and then make some guy jump through hoops to make some unspoken promise to you that he's not going to change his mind once you've had sex.'

Jump through hoops? I don't see it as jumping through hoops - I see it as both being comfortable with having sex at the same pace, not one person making the other wait. If it came down to that I would think we were incompatible in the first place.

and yes, you can change your mind if the sex is not what you expect but I often find it is - it's an expression of the deeper personality and there will be elements of it that you can pretty much predict from the outset - iME anyway.

madonnawhore - I don't agree that being able to have sex immediately equates to being ready to being on the dating scene!

We are all different and sometimes can fancy the pants off someoone, and yet still not jump into bed on the first date.

Different if you were just looking for a one-night stand shag.

Yes, EnnisDelMar. I have found that sex can be an expression of the deeper personality.

@cindystill yes I was being a tad facetious, I know what you're saying.

Ennis, I do understand what you're saying as well. It's just that when you meet someone you really, really fancy, it's very hard to put that into practice.

Or maybe I just have no self control!

(I do always wait until at least the 3rd date though )

I don't know about that. I fancied my partner for two years before we dated. Dream come true when we got together. I still didn't jump into bed with him - fancied him something rotten - it just isn't my personality to probably feel so relaxed immediately. But that is just me.

Maybe I should learn to chill out more!!!!

Ennis I know what you mean :) Had a similar thing with current BF when we got together. I said I didn't want to have sex yet but just enjoy being together etc. Took us a few weeks of dithering around about whether to get together or not anyway, during which time we spent time together as (pretty close TBH) friends but obviously not kissing or doing anything sexual etc. We talked about it a lot - so the situation madonnawhore talks about wouldn't have come up because he knew I was interested, but just wanted to take things slowly.

Actually he was pretty nervous as well and said at one point "If we get together I don't think we should have sex for around 6 years." (as a joke obviously!) but actually that made me feel a lot better. Someone doesn't have to be constantly nagging you for there to feel as though there is pressure for sex. Hearing him come out with such a ridiculous timescale said to me that he didn't mind whether we had sex or not and it was ME he was interested in.

Actually in the end we lasted about 1.5 weeks before giving in so much for my self control! But it was really nice and relaxed and the week leading up to it was wonderful, just being able to kiss etc without feeling like I was leading him on if I didn't want to do anything else. And we were seeing each other almost every day at that point as well so it felt a lot longer.

I don't think 6 weeks is that time when things become a bit more serious as one person is falling a tinsy bit in love and the other may be pulling away.
I would try and chill and let him do the running though. Make your life just as exciting and busy as his is and don't let him ebecome the centre of your world.

Sorry I meant I do think that 6 weeks is that time...

I do appreciate that everyone is different, and if you feel you'd rather not have sex with someone until you 'know them a bit better' then that's fair enough as long as you are listening to your own instincts and not following arbitrary sexist dumbfuck rules like 'Not until the 5th date' or whatever. IE if you want to and you feel comfortable, then do it.

"if you want to and you feel comfortable, then do it"

Pretty much sums it up.