Bipolar...

[Bipolarrelationship]

Hi all, need some good old mumsnet advice here - hopefully between you there is a wealth of advice and experience for me to use to help my situation, I'll try to briefly explain.

(Im a regular who has name changed btw)

I have met a lovely man at work. We get on well, he's very sweet and well liked and we have flirted lots. He asked me out, we went out, had a fantastic time, laughs and giggles a plenty. We kissed lots and got a little raunchy as we said goodbye. Then he text me a few times saying he'd had a great night, can't wait til next time etc - whilst at work we have been discreet but still very friendly, lots of smiles and sexy glances etc.

We then went on a second date with some mutual friends and he was like a different person, not tactile, no giggles etc. I thought perhaps he had been having a bad day. We ended the night with him actually crying then getting angry with me for trying to cuddle him then he got more upset and apologised repetitively and hugged me as he felt so bad for getting cross with me. I was very confused to say the least and left feeling a little giddy.

He then text me the next day to say he had something he had to tell me (I was thinking married, gay, has an std etc) but it was to tell me he has mental health problems. He is bi polar and says he has severe mood swings and struggles with it constantly. I asked why he told me and he said I needed to know if we were going to be seeing each other as more than friends and he told me he hasn't felt like this about someone for a long time . He hasnt told anyone else that we know, and nobody at work so I felt special he chose me to tell and keep his secret, it was so hard for him to tell me too - which is partly why I know he really does like me.

So, all seemed well. Him being bipolar didn't bother me, no more than of he had a physical health problem would really. But since then he's been odd. We've been fine whilst at work, chatting and laughing as usual but when I asked him about going out again he said he really likes me and thought it'd be ok, but he hasn't tried a relationship with anyone for years and he thought he could handle it mentally but now realises he can't - although he really likes me he feels it could harm us both mentally if he were to get into a relationship.

I just don't know what to do I have no idea how being bipolar makes people feel or behave. I don't know whether I should try and persuade him that I'm not some crazy girl looking to screw with his head and that I genuinely do like him for him and offer again to go out for dinner but to keep things relaxed and take time. Or perhaps he knows what he is and isn't mentally able for and I should just respect that and bow out of this one. It just seems such a shame, a few weekssvago he was so interested and told me so many times how much he liked me, how we clicked and how much he enjoyed our time together, he was so eager to meet up and go out.

So... anyone got any ideas, Id love to hear them, especially if you are bi polar or have dated someone who is. What is best to do? Is he just naturally negative and worried about things going wrong which then makes him not take chances with getting hurt (which is what I suppose we do each and every time we get close to someone).

Will I totally mess with his head if I leave it a couple of weeks and ask him out for dinner?

I never get confused about guys - but this one has my head spinning...

If he has severe mod swings I would struggle with that tbh. If you are serious about seeing him, you need to find out more about how his illness manifests itself iyswim. The fact that he has such moodswings to me suggests his medication either isn't working or needs tweaking.
My best friend is bipolar and tbh she is hard work. She is in a manic phase right now and refuses to have her medicine reviewed, as is typical when manic. She is being reckless, has no respect for boundaries, and truly believes she is invincilbe. It is extremely difficult to support a friend through this, but i have known her for years without an episode- this is the first time the bipolar has really been obvious to me. I'm not sure how I would deal with going into a relationship with someone knowing this- with my friend I have the basis of years of friendship hich makes it a bit easier for me to deal with- I have more patience and understanding I suppose. Would I want her as a partner? Absolutely not, I need a grounding influence to be honest, and if you need something similar I'd suggest that your first priority, and his, is to try and get him a med review.

//when I asked him about going out again he said he really likes me and thought it'd be ok, but he hasn't tried a relationship with anyone for years and he thought he could handle it mentally but now realises he can't.//

He's told you how he feels. I'd walk away.

Honestly, and its not a very pc answer, walk away.

I have experience of people with bipolar. IME it will not get better, it will not be controlled, it will always be there in some form. Either the meds will have side effects or they won't be taking them and will either become manic or depressed.

Walk away. Relationships are hard enough without this added to it.

Good place to learn more
www.mdf.org.uk/

LOL @ the massive mental health expert readywithwellies' dazzling evidence-based observations.

I "have experience" of bipolar too, readywithwellies. I actually am bipolar. It is controlled, with low levels of drugs, which have no side effects and which I take without thinking about it. I haven't had an episode for over 4 years.

I love how "non-PC" is actually just a PC way of saying "stupid, bigoted shit."

violently disagree with readywithwellies. The implication is that mentally ill people should be walked away from because they are mentally ill, and so therefore never be loved. This is a bad attitude I'm afraid.

I was in a relationship with a woman who is bi-polar. It is a multi-faceted illness. To continue you do have to accept a lot. Your relationship will never be 'standard'. He will struggle to make very simple attachments to your feelings, and be able to read them. Do lots of research, but also be prepared to think in entirely different ways about this relationship than previous ones. Hard work yes.

one peice of advice if you continue. Do not lose an ability to 'criticise' him as if he were without illness. This would tempting but also destructive to your relationship.

Pan - nice to see someone standing up for bipolar people, but I have to admit I find it upsetting to know that relationships with me are "hard work." Bit of a kick in the stomach to be honest.

I do wholeheartedly agree with this, though: "Do not lose an ability to 'criticise' him as if he were without illness. This would tempting but also destructive to your relationship." Being mentally ill isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card. I think it's a question of striking a balance between being mindful of the issues that may arise as a result of the condition, but not infantilising your partner or lowering your standards when it comes to how you expect to be treated.

sorry fairy. It was my experience with her, but on reflection that could have been specific to her. So tricky in seeing what is individual personality, and what is illness-driven. I do apologise.
I look back and DO suspect she wished me to 'not judge', in part so she could escape the demands of being in a relationship - your 'get out of jail' card. I ended it in regret. She was utterly loveable but it didn't work.

Wow thanks for all the reples so far everyone! Pan what you have said actually explains a few things from a couple of conversations we've had. He said firstly- (before the one where he said he can't cope mentally with a relationship ) that I need to realize the way he sees things is different to how I see them, he also told me relationships with someone with bipolar are different.

Is it a trait of bi polar to find it difficult to express and talk about how you feel? I'm so open and honest and to the point yet he seems to really struggle with telling me simple things like if I bump into him in passing and say casually " hi, you ok?" he seems to flap and not be able to give me even a simple yes or no. Then other times he just blurts out loads of info all at once! I feel really naive and a little helpless. I really feel we have the potential to have a great thing together which could progress into a relationship of he'd only give it chance. I'm not daft, I know when someone isn't interested but he seems as though hevrealky us and gas told me he is just that he thinks he couldn't "cope" with it. As far as I know he doesn't take medication, he said the side effects are far worse. I don't know enough to comment on how severely his bi polar affects his life, but he has said it's a covstant struggle and bad periods mean days of not wanting to talk, see anyone or even go out of the house.

I have no itention of trying to force him into a relationship but I just need to figure out if more time together will give him the courage to take a chance despite his reservations due to his mental health problems. Although I do also worry (perhaps needlessly) that a relationship with him could affect my daughter who is only 8.

So much to think about... For what it's worth I know I can be hard work too :) He made such a big step in telling me, I know he thought I may think all the terrible sterotypes associated with mh problems, which Ive assured him I don't of course- and totally acknowleded this is real and a real condition he has. Im willing to put in the time and effort just need to know if it's a good idea to dp anything other than walk away. He seems so fragile Id rather have him as a friend than have him as more and damage his fragile star of mind.

Ah, its never simple and easy is it! X

My mother was bipolar.
If you proceed to persue this relationship, op, I suggest you be able to set well defined boundaries that he not use you, or any children you may have, for negative emotional relief (especially the children).

Personally, I'd bow out. I would always be checking my emotional perimeters-ie: don't take it personally: rage in my face- at me- isn't really about me. I do understand that rage, or sarcasm, etc. does not happen all the time, but, imho, it could happen at any time.

I am glad that folks with this condition have found a way to master it. Wish my mom had.

Oops full if typos there. Also forgot to say that he is the most amazing person I have met in such a long time that perhaps it's just that I don't want to give up on what could be great if he didnt have mh problems.

Am reading the links you gave too x

I have depression and anxiety, as does my partner. We can both be 'hard work' when we are ill, and we're ill more often than others and in ways that can't be seen.

It takes work not to say "But can't you just-?" because there are things that are difficult for both of us. I am feeling low so I can't answer the phone - full stop. We both struggle with getting up in the morning.

I'd say that if he's said that getting into a relationship would damage his mental health then please step away and give him space. He knows his mental health better than anyone.

I have tried to have a relationship with an un-medicated rapid cycling bipolar guy, and it was very, very difficult. A crazy rollercoaster of emotions, unsettling and confusing. I couldn't rely on him when I felt down or had had a bad day; when he was depressed, it was all about him. When he was manic, he was unreachable. The normal in between state never seemed to last long enough to establish some security and foundations. And even now it's impossible to know how much of that was just him, him and me together, or him being bipolar.

I would say that such relationships can and do work, but with the proviso that both parties are willing to make it work and work very hard at things, are committed and keen etc. It sounds like he is scared of hurting you, and perhaps fears for his own mental health if he gets into a relationship now. Listen to what he is saying, here; he's clearly trying to communicate how he feels. Don't dismiss it or think he will change his mind again, he may not.

Are you likely to be very hurt by this, I mean - do you really REALLY like him or were you just mildly or moderately interested? Because I would suggest maybe just taking it easy, just sticking as friends and seeing how things pan out. But if you are besotted with the bloke, and hang around for ages waiting for him to change his mind (or subtly guilting him into being with you against his instinct) then you could get very hurt. He sounds like a nice bloke but perhaps it's just the wrong time for him, iyswim?
Good luck :) Let us know how it goes.

I don't know. bi-polar isn't just one big homogenous group. Some similarities but as with everyone it's all individual. My ex would say she went to very dark places, but how and when and for how long will vary from people to people. As I say, do some reading, and talking to him, and come to your own conclusions. It sounds like you are a tad smitten!!

Don't apologise Pan, I do see your point. It just distresses me to think that "normal" ( ) people who have had relationships with bipolar people might extrapolate and apply their specific experience to relationships with ALL bipolar people, if you see what I mean. And I include myself in that: it makes me very unhappy to think that any of my exes might have a pre-formed opinion of every bipolar person they meet based on their time with me. I have behaved badly in relationships, but I don't think it's exclusively because I'm bipolar. Sometimes I am just a wanker, end of story!

I know what you mean by your ex expecting you to "not judge" in order to give her an out when it came to the normal demands of a relationship, and I think it's a very bad mistake - for everyone - to yield to that. A good friend of mine got into a relationship with a mutual friend of ours who has borderline personality disorder. She knew about his condition but instead of urging him to go back into treatment when his behaviour deteriorated, she made excuse after excuse for him. It very nearly lead me to cut her off, because in my opinion it was a grossly unfair thing to do to him, let alone the effect it was having on her.

I know that living with a mental illness (or similar condition) is very hard but I do believe that we have to take responsibility for ourselves as far as possible. I regard it as my responsibility to take my meds, get as much exercise as I can, and attend my psych appointments. If I fail to do those things and I become unbearable, then I have no one but myself to blame if the people around me choose not to associate with me.

hon- RUN, that's it. unless this is standard bipolar 1 - which is a 'real' illness. RUN x

//Is it a trait of bi polar to find it difficult to express and talk about how you feel?//

It's a trait of some PEOPLE to find it difficult to talk about how they feel.

You might start by just trying to engage with him as a person, as opposed to a set of symptoms?

loon - what? What does your post mean?

fairy - it's why I wanted to point out bi-polar folk are not a homogeneous mass.

as you say it's self-care. ON a similar basis I know if I don't do my running, or don't eat properly, I get moody. ( sometimes I see it when I am doing it and think 'why say/do that you wanker?) - then realise the absences.

another frind of mine is personality disordered and is in full time therapy - something he had to 'fight ' for though. In this country if you want serious help you have to do something dreadful and access it via the criminal justice system!!

loonat48 knows more than the Royal College of Psychiatrists on the subject of bipolar disorder. Or, yanno, doesn't?

My cousin is Bipolar and I would tell you from the heart that it's possibly not a good idea if you have children.

The times when a sufferer has forgotten or stopped medication can be very distressing and scary.

If you're looking for a long term partner dont go there.

Fairycake...I am sorry if I offend you with my post...but I have seen that Bipolar comes in different strengths for want of a better word...if the OP has kids then its not in their best interest that she persue a relationship with a man who has Bipolar.

Pan- yes, I guess I am smitten, but old enough to feel a little silly about it :) it is just so unusual to have someone go from being so into you to them saying they can't cope with it, but I am trying to understand him and respect his need for space. I just don't want to hurt him but am trying to tread a fine line if urging him to be brave and take a leap of faith and not wanting to pressurize him into doing something which makes him mentally unstable and unhappy.

I believe he uses drugs to control his ups and downs- amphetamines and cannabis, so self medicating in a way. This would be a problem for me as drugs are a no no in this house.

The more I type the clearer it seems that it's all not right for us :(

What does that mean loon? He is bipolar, a real condition, diagnosed professionally.

Yes fairycake I know you are right. I just wondered as he seems to go from not being able to say anything to blurting out entire chunks if important personal information. I think it may have been easier if he hadn't told me so soon as now I keep wondering if he is as he is because if his illness or because it's the way he is and then wondering if that makes any difference anyway as either way it's the way he is :) I do see him as a person, I don't want to make it all a out him being bi polar, he is a fantastic person.

I started a relationship with a guy who was bipolar, I liked him a lot, but he couldn't handle it, he had his way of managing it, which was living quietly, lots of routine, avoiding intense experiences. having a relationship unbalanced that for him and he became anxious that he would become ill (experience symptoms). I had to respect that and bow out. If he's telling you that then you should listen. If it's meant to be he'll come back but until then you should wish him well and let him decide what he's comfortable with. living with bipolar can be scary and it's not helpful to push someone out of their comfort zone. just my opinion.

"I believe he uses drugs to control his ups and downs- amphetamines and cannabis, so self medicating in a way."

gulp! He isn't self-medicating. It isn't medicine, the stuff that one takes to improve one's health. They are (albeit relatively) mild, mind-altering recreational drugs that one does for fun. fairy may know more about the meeting of drugs and bi-polar.

that for me ( mr straight ) is a deal-breaker. The bi-polar stuff isn't whatsoever.