Bipolar...

[Bipolarrelationship]

Hi all, need some good old mumsnet advice here - hopefully between you there is a wealth of advice and experience for me to use to help my situation, I'll try to briefly explain.

(Im a regular who has name changed btw)

I have met a lovely man at work. We get on well, he's very sweet and well liked and we have flirted lots. He asked me out, we went out, had a fantastic time, laughs and giggles a plenty. We kissed lots and got a little raunchy as we said goodbye. Then he text me a few times saying he'd had a great night, can't wait til next time etc - whilst at work we have been discreet but still very friendly, lots of smiles and sexy glances etc.

We then went on a second date with some mutual friends and he was like a different person, not tactile, no giggles etc. I thought perhaps he had been having a bad day. We ended the night with him actually crying then getting angry with me for trying to cuddle him then he got more upset and apologised repetitively and hugged me as he felt so bad for getting cross with me. I was very confused to say the least and left feeling a little giddy.

He then text me the next day to say he had something he had to tell me (I was thinking married, gay, has an std etc) but it was to tell me he has mental health problems. He is bi polar and says he has severe mood swings and struggles with it constantly. I asked why he told me and he said I needed to know if we were going to be seeing each other as more than friends and he told me he hasn't felt like this about someone for a long time . He hasnt told anyone else that we know, and nobody at work so I felt special he chose me to tell and keep his secret, it was so hard for him to tell me too - which is partly why I know he really does like me.

So, all seemed well. Him being bipolar didn't bother me, no more than of he had a physical health problem would really. But since then he's been odd. We've been fine whilst at work, chatting and laughing as usual but when I asked him about going out again he said he really likes me and thought it'd be ok, but he hasn't tried a relationship with anyone for years and he thought he could handle it mentally but now realises he can't - although he really likes me he feels it could harm us both mentally if he were to get into a relationship.

I just don't know what to do I have no idea how being bipolar makes people feel or behave. I don't know whether I should try and persuade him that I'm not some crazy girl looking to screw with his head and that I genuinely do like him for him and offer again to go out for dinner but to keep things relaxed and take time. Or perhaps he knows what he is and isn't mentally able for and I should just respect that and bow out of this one. It just seems such a shame, a few weekssvago he was so interested and told me so many times how much he liked me, how we clicked and how much he enjoyed our time together, he was so eager to meet up and go out.

So... anyone got any ideas, Id love to hear them, especially if you are bi polar or have dated someone who is. What is best to do? Is he just naturally negative and worried about things going wrong which then makes him not take chances with getting hurt (which is what I suppose we do each and every time we get close to someone).

Will I totally mess with his head if I leave it a couple of weeks and ask him out for dinner?

I never get confused about guys - but this one has my head spinning...

Pan - I am ashamed to say that with me it's almost exactly the opposite way round: sometimes I realise that I feel really happy and accomodating, and that takes me by surprise!
It's always traceable to a really long hard swim or a run the night before etc, which is bad news for someone as lazy as I am!

My BPD friend was also in full time therapy, and he was doing amazingly, but he left. I wish I could bully him into going back.

ForMash: "Fairycake...I am sorry if I offend you with my post...but I have seen that Bipolar comes in different strengths for want of a better word...if the OP has kids then its not in their best interest that she persue a relationship with a man who has Bipolar."

I'm not offended - it DOES come in different "strengths"!

To my mind, though, what is relevant is not what kind of bipolar someone has: what is relevant is how engaged they are with the issue, how committed they are to maintaining their mental health, how open they are to discussing it and taking on board the concerns of the people around them, etc.

The unbearabley annoying thing is that you never hear/read accounts of a perfectly normal, boring, functional bipolar person: all stories relating to bipolar people are about how they sold their house for a tenner on eBay/moved to Croatia to start a cult/ made a pair of wings out of bin bags and tried to fly off a multi-storey carpark. Plenty of us - PLENTY of us - just live the same normal, boring, go-to-work-come-home-watch-telly-go-to-bed lives as everyone else. Not very newsworthy, though, is it? It massively skews the public perception of what day-to-day life with bipolar disorder actually looks like, and that frustrates me.

OP: "I believe he uses drugs to control his ups and downs- amphetamines and cannabis, so self medicating in a way. This would be a problem for me as drugs are a no no in this house."

FUCK NO. NO WAY. Absolutely, categorically, NO.

This attitude enrages me: people with a diagnosis of a mental illness pissing and moaning about not wanting to be on "drugs" and going on about side effects - and then "managing" their condition by taking speed and smoking weed??! Are you kidding me?!

Just walk away. He has not come to terms with his diagnosis and he is not interested in taking responsibility for his mental health. Be pleasant, but do not have a relationship with him.

From my own experience I would be very cautious. My DH recently diagnosed as bipolar with a few minor episodes over the last 17 years and now one/two major episodes lasting since feb 2009. As a family we have been through a very difficult time and I am seriously thinking we can't carry on together.

Seeing fairycake's comment about being committed to maintaining mental health and taking on board concerns of the people around them makes me feel so sad since he seems totally incapable of understanding the impact he has on the DCs and me.

yes, my ex- did/does all of the mundane, boring bits like holding a responsible person-centred job, breathing and sleeping - no tv but lots of computer games. (the gaming bit pissed me off a bit too!)

Oh Fairycake...your bin bag wing comment made me laugh.

My cousin probbly was one of thosewho woudn't engage with her treatment..she did and still does stop medication and go on mad sprees...not always involvingcash but some really alarming behaviour.

Maybe some people, like Spatz' DH and my cousin simply can't cope with the medication?

Spatz, obviously I know nothing about your circumstances or what's happened since Feb 2009 or in the previous 16 years. But if you think there's anything worth hanging onto, please consider hanging in there.

The diagnosis is much, much harder to accept for the individual than it is for the person around them - I know that sounds pathetic and excuse-y but I do think it's often true. No one wants to be told that their personality is just a load of symptoms, and that their essence is basically pathology - and that is what my diagnosis felt like to me. It felt like everyone was suddenly going "Oh well that explains x/y/z" - it was like "I" didn't exist as an agent any more and I was just a conduit for mentally ill impusles. It's an awful feeling.

It also takes time to begin to be able to see where "you" stop and "bipolar" starts.

It takes time to adapt, to accept that you are ill - that you have an incurable illness. Your husband might also be having to come to terms with the knowledge that he might have transmitted the at-risk genes to your DC.

I am torn, to be honest. On the one hand I know how fucking awful it is to be bipolar, to be diagnosed with bipolar, and to deal with people's devastating preconceptions about bipolar.

On the other hand, I really don't think you can or should sacrifice your own wellbeing, or your children's wellbeing if you think that's what it's going to take to support him.

It's tough.

Thanks fairycake - it's really interesting to hear your perspective. I do think I can only carry on if he makes a serious commitment to treatment. He enjoys being manic and has done some dreadful things - gambled thousands and spent lots on what he calls the 'sex industry' in the last few months.

I think he is trying to come to terms with it. And I confess I have been reassessing everything annoying he has ever done in the light of this diagnosis!

Spatz - that sounds like it must have been incredibly hard on you, and on your family unit. It sounds really, really tough. I had the luxury of coming to terms with my diagnosis and getting to know my way around my illness while single and childless, and I can only imagine how difficult it must be to absorb that diagnosis into an established family.

I think anyone would enjoy mania - I'm bipolar II (not a "real" illness according to our resident psychiatric expert, the aptly-named loon ) but by God I LOVE being hypomanic! It's a rush, I honestly can't describe it. But I know now that it's not consequence-free and I've learnt to recognise, and dread, the early symptoms. If your DH is bipolar I then I imagine that would be harder for him.

And as to reassessing every annoying thing he's ever done through the lens of his diagnosis, it's standard! You'd be weird if you didn't

Walk away. TBH this man may not even have a mental illness, he might just be a self-diagnosing druggie loser. (This is not meant as a slur on people who are bipolar, but it is one of those illnesses that some rather wanky people are inclined to decide, wihtout any medical advice, that they have, and therefore everyone else has to indulge them). He's certainly not someone who is taking responsibility for either his own wellbeing or that of people around him.
You can't fix him. And until he's prepared to take some responsibility for himself ie see a doctor, take his meds etc, then he is not a good person to have a relationship with, particularly as you have a child.

Fairycake - would love to continue this - your experience/insight is really valuable, but I must go to bed. Persuaded DCs to sleep in their room tonight - been in with me for weeks because they are scared all the time. I am looking forward to a room to myself.
Will check back tomorrow - am evil thread-hijacker!

Ive got mixed feelings on this. On one hand its not ok to judge people , bipolar is just as much of an illness as cancer or anything else , but im afraid i wouldnt choose to be in a relationship with someone who has this.

A family member suffers from this , life has been literally unbearable at times. They too self medicate with all sorts which of course makes it worse . Life is an ongoing cycle of relativeley normal behaviour , then it deteriorates and we are forced to watch helplessly as our loved one makes bad choices , is exploited , assaulted even. Eventually its our turn , they become hostile and violent , we are the worst people in the world , they discard us and disasociate from us , we hear nothing for months at a time .

Then they reapear and they are that same family member they always were , often embaresed and ashamed at their behaviour. Then it starts again, usually signalled by absurd attempts for attention. Round and round we go, ive found support to be badly lacking too.

I apreciate that my veiw might be distorted by my own experience , i know that many people manage their symptoms very well and lead uneventfull every day lives . I think my family member might be at the severe end of the scale , but no , i wouldnt choose to be in a relationship with them.

The fact that he takes drugs would be an absolute deal breaker for me.

What SGB said...

• If this man has bi-polar and is using amphetamines and cannabis - he is willfully poisoning himself. Those things are hard enough for someone without bi-polar to handle, with bi-polar, he might as well be drinking poison.

Speak to MDF about this.

Also, having a mental health problem doesn't stop a person being an arsehole. Arseholes get MH problems too, and will continue to be arseholes even when receiving and responding to treatment.

dignified - if your life with a bipolar person in it wss "literally unbearable" you would ahve killed yourself. By definition. I'm not saying, I'm just saying

Fairy , on occasion i have thought about it , i kid you not.

Spatz - I'd be really happy to carry on this conversation here or on another thread if you think it's more appropriate.

FWIW I agree 100% with SGB, on all counts. The OP's love interest may not have a firm diagosis - if you do decide to pursue a relationship with him, OP, ask if you can meet his GP/psychiatrist/whoever is managing his treatment.

I would unhesitatingly offer a new partner the opportunity to come with me to a routine 3-monthly appointment with my consultant if I thought the relationship was going to go anywhere, not only to "prove" that my illness was officially diagnosed, but to demonstrate to my partner that I have a good relationship with my psychiatrist and a healthy, realistic attitude to my illness & its treatment.

And, as SGB so rightly points out, he may simply be a prick, with or without the overlay of bipolar.

dignified - where do you live? Who diagnosed your family member? Who oversees their treatment? How long have they been diagnosed?

I also have a family member who suffers from bi-polar. And their behaviour has caused huge distress in our family with the effects such as making our mother ill. When I say this it is because my family member has been very nasty on occasions to our mother, and others in the family. And yes, you are not sure whether it is the illness or that they just treating people like that because that is how they are as a person and I don't think you can keep excusing nasty behaviour forever on an illness. They have been diagnosed professionally etc. and are on medication. It depends how well the condition is managed and whether it is possible to have a relatively trouble-free existence with the person without high drama which has been my experience. This is just my experience, and it is just my experience of a family member, in that it could adversely affect children. And I stress that this is just my experience of my family member being with my dc at times.

for me, I would try if I really like him, But I have kids, and for them I would not get involved. Too difficult, and too difficult later to extract yourself and them if it doesnt work

"The OP's love interest may not have a firm diagosis - if you do decide to pursue a relationship with him, OP, ask if you can meet his GP/psychiatrist/whoever is managing his treatment".

I cannot see that happening for the following reason:-

My friend is currently married to her bi-polar H and she is not allowed to meet the pyschiatrist (apparantly she has been told by the pysch she needs her DH's permission to do this).

I would also agree with SGB's responses.

Also "self medicating" with cannabis and speed he is doing is a complete NO. Why are you considering a relationship with someone like this bi-polar or otherwise?.

Do NOT see this man as your project to try and rescue or save because you can't. You need to curb any rescuing instinct you have and more importantly your 8 year old DD needs you far more than he does. You know nothing about bi-polar either so you are walking wide eyed into this totally unprepared. At the very least educate yourself more by reading the MDF website.

OP, yes, you can only attend the person's appointment with a psychiatrist if they give you permission to, obviously. I have attended a psychiatrist's appointment with my family member because they wanted me to and gave their permission.

My ex if sixteen years has bipolar. My honest advice is, as ge has said severe mood swings, walk away now before you get too involved. I can tell you it is incredibly difficult. It very nearly destroyed me. If he has severe mood swings you will not be able to have a normal relationship. He has already shown signs of quite serious inappropriate anger.

But I doneealise some bipolar people are able to control and handle their condition. However "severe mood swings" and "self medication" are a strong sign here.

Sorry for typos am on phone.