please help

[DottyDolittle]

I am writing this on behalf of my friend

My friend has been married for 5 years and has a really good relationship with her DH. Never really had any problems.

She has suffered with PND and as a result of this has struggled to sleep. Things are a lot better now but she is still having to take sleeping tablets. Because of the tablets she is quite a heavy sleeper.

She said she woke last night after being in bed for several hours to find that her DH had his hand in her knickers and was using his fingers to touch her in an intimate way. She said she lay there for a while half asleep not really fully registering what was going on.

When she woke properly her DH kissed her and then they had sex. She said she was still half asleep and just wanted to go back to sleep.

She said she doenst' know why, but the fact that her husband was touching her when she was fast asleep is really bothering her and when she thinks about it she feels quite sick but doesn't know if she is over reacting.

Please help???

She needs to talk to him. Some will start yelling that this was assault, but it all depends on how they are together. He may have thought he was waking her up gently to surprise her with some nice lovemaking. They did have sex after all. They've got a really good relationship, so there's no reason to assume there was anything sinister in this. She just needs to open her mouth and talk. If she's not receptive to advances like this she needs to tell him. If it is OK to wake her up in other ways, she needs to tell him. If it's a no-go at all, ditto.

I agree with meleetle

If it bothers her should say that to her partner. But when people are in long-term relationships there exists a state of 'implied consent'.

She should try to trust her relationship with her partner and just keep it casual, mention she would prefer to be woken up in other ways perhaps and specify.

Um, no. She was FAST ASLEEP. That's very different to half asleep morning sex. It's pretty obvious too when someone's asleep or when they are half awake so I don't buy that bollocks at all that he thought he was doing a nice thing. Why not start with a kiss to see how receptive she was if that was the case?

"Implied" consent? WTF? You do realise that hasn't been the case in marriage since 1991.

Same as above. Really it all depends what has gone on beforehand: if they've got a great relationship, good sex life, lots of trust etc. then it seems likely that this was meant to be a nice surprise, or a bit of a change to their sex life. A misjudgement maybe, but a genuine one.

One alternative explanation that sounds a bit far fetched but is completely true: me and my wife once woke up kissing with our hands all over each other. Ended up having sex and going straight to sleep again. Was about 3 in the morning. When we got up neither of us could remember who instigated it. Came to the conclusion that we had basically sleep-shagged and were quite pleased with ourselves.

Depends. My husband has woken me up a few times with stuff like this. I have woken up and responded and had great sex.

In comparison I was in this situation once when a work colleague walked into my room after a works do/conference. Now that was assault.

But if she feels uncomfortable with it thats what the issue is.

Cross posted above - am more inclined to agree with the first couple of posts than Bertie. Would find it very strange if, in an otherwise strong and healthy relationship where they have a good sex life, the DH felt he had to get his kicks like this. Obviously it is possible but I think there are more likely interpretations.

Should add that she definitely does need to talk to her husband though.

It's possible that he was practically asleep too and just stroking her absentmindedly, or that he was crassly trying to wake her up for sex, or that he actually enjoyed touching her while she was asleep. There's no way of knowing from the perspective of this information.

What matters is that it has made her feel uncomfortable/bad, so they need to talk and she needs to make it clear to him that it isn't welcome, and that she doesn't welcome being woken up in this way. She has a perfect right to say this, and if he is a loving partner and nice person he will be apologetic and promise never to touch her intimately again when she is asleep.

I'm assuming that he was just touching her/stroking her gently btw - if he put his fingers inside her or anything else I would have a different attitude.

Afraid I disagree with Anabelle - if this has made her feel ill at ease it is far better to get it out in the open now.

Theres no such thing as implied consent . I too would feel very upset about this . She needs to speak to him and make it clear that this isnt to happen again .
Hopefully , as others have said he,ll be apologetic and it wont happen again.

I should say that he wasn't just stroking he, his fingers were actually inside

Well in that case she needs to have more of a "what did you think you were doing?" conversation. Not acceptable. I would find that very creepy and scary if I woke to find my partner doing that to me.

Especially in the knowledge that I was drugged as well as sleeping. Not saying he is necessarily being sinister, just that it's not surprising she feels weird about it, and he needs to apologise and remember where the boundaries lie. If he's a decent man he will be mortified, as I suspect any of us would be if we found we'd accidentally upset our partners in bed.

It has happened with me and dh a couple of times, that we both wake up and find that we are in the middle of sex. We dont know who has initiated it, but I have never thought about it as anything else but nice. We love eachother, and if we respond to eachother in our sleep, then there is nothing to worry about.

The fact that your friend is ill at ease with the situation, and suspects her husband was taking advantage of her, is a little worrying.

It never worried me. But it would worry me if we had problems in our marriage, or were otherwise not very sexual with each other.

QS - but that's because you "both" wake up together. I imagine that she woke up and found her fully awake husband doing this to her, which, while he may have had the best of intentions, must still have been a shock for her.

Yes, I know, but it was not clear from the op whether the husband was also asleep when this started.

I would say the fact this friend is discussing this with you, op, rather than her dh is the biggest issue. What sort of good marriage is it when she cannot discuss this with the man in the morning?

The impression I get is that he was awake when it started.

Dotty , i think the fact he actually penetrated her makes this a little differant , im assuming he knew she was asleep and this isnt ok.

Something else has bothered me too - "When she woke properly her DH kissed her and then they had sex. She said she was still half asleep and just wanted to go back to sleep ".

But yet she didnt say she wanted to go back to sleep , why not ? I think a man who wakes a sleeping partner up in the night to fullfill his own needs is out of order .

You also say shes now not sure if shes over reacting . It really doesnt matter what we think , the fact is she didnt like it and her feelings are entireley her own and perfectly valid . On this occasion shes showing that she doesnt trust her own judgement , why is this ?

Something isnt sitting right with me about this . Your freinds presumably has young children , pnd and needs sleeping tablets to get some much needed sleep. I think her H by waking her like this in these circumstances clearly has the attitude that his needs are more important than hers.

Im surprised your freind didnt give him a well aimed dig with her elbow , and im wondering why she hasnt bollocked him the following morning instead of wondering if shes over reacting . Of course she may be run down , fed up ect , but it might be worth gently asking her why she doesnt feel her own feelings are valid.

Women shouldn't ignore their instincts. If she feels violated, she's not overreacting. Her fully awake husband knew she was drugged and heavily asleep, and put his fingers inside her.

I'm not saying she should prosecute him, but I am saying that she'll feel worse if she tells herself that she's being silly and doesn't confront him. Why would he do that? He wasn't trying to wake her for sex; she lay there for ages before waking enough to respond, during which time he continued. So what he was doing, he was doing for his own pleasure and without regard to what she wanted.

Would you do that to an unresponsive body? Would you enjoy that?

And dignified is right; if he was trying to wake her for sex, what sort of entitled fuckery is that?

The fact that she's confided in you means she's really upset. Don't tell her she's being silly, please, whatever else you tell her.

I also meant to add that while its often normal to snuggle up and sleepily caress a sleeping partner , putting your hand down someones knickers and penetrating them isnt the same thing.

Being penetrated when your asleep and not at all aroused cant be physically pleasant at all. Clearly this didnt bother him at all , i think you need to have a talk with your freind .

yuck, I think it's awful and would definitely be having very strong words.

I recently read a book from Womens Aid and there was a section in it about " sleep sex " ( not the sleepy cuddly sex others are referring to ) and it clearly suggests that an attraction to a sleeping submissive woman is not healthy , and also is not about sex.

This sort of thing also occurs when women are drunk , drugged ( like your freind ) or unwell. I think this reflects a sense of entitlement over your freind , i wonder in what other ways he feels entitled . I dont think your freinds over reacting at all , in fact i think shes under reacting .