Forgiveness - is it always bad to not forgive?

[phipps]

I will never forgive my mother for things she has done. We have no contact and never will. Day to day it has no effect but I wonder what it would feel like if I said I forgave her (just out loud to myself) but what would the point be?

Some things are unforgivable.
I don't think it makes you a bad person if you can't or even won't forgive.

I'm not the forgiving type.

Depends what it is, depends on your own ethics to an extent (e.g. are you a christian?)

No, not a Christian. Have no desire to forgive her. Just interested in why people think it is good to do so and say it is easier to live with.

I'm not the forgiving sort either & I don't feel bad about it. It depends on what's been done. I think if everyone thought they could/should be forgiven for every misdemeanor there would be mayhem! I'm an atheist, though, so it doesn't interfere with any religious beliefs I may have.

I think there is a difference between forgiveness and letting things go so that they can no longer poison you.

There are certain people and things I will never forgive, but equally I have removed mysefl from them and just don't think about them.

For me, forgiveness means freedom from the hurt someone has caused. While I am still in pain and still mad at them, I can't move on.

It took me a long time to forgive my ex for how he treated me. Now I can say to him (in the words of the girl in the film Labyrinth)

"You have no power over me"

I think sometimes the act of forgiveness can cause you more grief than not forgiving. Not forgiving is a very useful self defence mechanism imo.

In my experience being forgiving and wanting to leave the past behind can only be achieved if the person you want to be able to forgive has the same agenda. Meaning they also want a different style of relationship to the one you had before.

If not and they see your forgiveness as a weakness and believe nothing has changed, all your forgiveness does is give them a licence to crap all over you again.

Personally, I don't do forgiveness well, the best I seem to be able to achieve is a sort of apathy about them, they just don't matter enough any more to make me angry, but even this is dependant on them bogging off and leaving me alone.

I hate the way people make out that you have a choice, and that you are holding yourself (and other people) back by not forgiving.
I want to, I try to, I sometimes feel like I can, (ie when really really happy, or pissed, or moved by something). But then all the old feelings and the pain and nightmares return and how can I dictate how I am supposed to feel about something? I feel what I feel, doesn't matter how much I tell myself that I forgive her.
It is my mother too, so I know how you feel.
Some wounds are too deep and the pain too enduring. I hope that time will heal.

It would depend on how you view forgiveness.

For me, it is as a part of recovery, to accept and move on, as MaryBS wrote..about not having power over me still.

This makes sense to me, but may not scan very well.

I still feel angry sometimes about things my ex did...but I have to work on letting it go as those feelings are negative to me...ie I don't wat to end up bitter ans twisted, iyswim....

However...acceptance of the person your mother is, and the (probably) awful things she may have done...that will be helpful to you...but you do not have to call it forgiveness.

Sometimes telling people how they hurt you helps...sometimes it doesn't...only you know that and you have made your own judgement and accept it works for you. That, I guess, ia all you can do.

Sorry you had a shit time.

Phipps if you asked me this one year ago I swear I would have said no, I never can forgive my own mother. I didn't speak to her for four years, and only speak now as my brother died suddenly, very young.

I couldn't see the point of forgiving someone if they were not sorry, and even if they said sorry, they never could mean it enough for me, otherwise, why do it in the first place.

Its an ugly character trait of mine, I'm like an elephant, never forget.

But, last January my other brother was getting married and I really felt for him, worrying about me and mum being in the same church/hotel and I thought, you know, it was not fair that this was spilling over into other people's lives.

One thing I do hate is to make other's feel uncomfortable, I will go a long way to avoid that. And so I decided to try to forgive and be friendly. Astonishingly, it felt good. I have not forgotten, never will, but I have lost that angry knot I carried around for years and it feels great. And believe me, I was angry. I even rewrote my will, and made it known that, if my mother were to die, I would not be attending the funeral.

I used to read the wisdom that forgiving frees you and pooh pood it, totally. Now I KNOW that it does. It leaves a space for more healing emotions, and gives you a lightness you forgot existed.

But if you dont feel ready, maybe ever, do not feel any guilt about that. You were the victim, dont take on any more guilt x

There is some good counselling on forgiveness in the book: The Tao of Fully Feeling by Pete Walker.

He points out that forgiving for the sake of forgiving 'because we are supposed to' is superficial and may be worse in the long run for us because it in a way diminishes and attempts to bury unresolved pain.

He suggests that grieving should come before forgiveness. Grieving for what happened to you, grieving for what should have been (love and nurturing from your mother) that you didn't get, grieving for the years lost to this pain that could have been better focused on living your life, and many other things associated with the pain to resolve.

Imho, forgiving yourself for putting up with it for so long might be a good place to start. I started forgiving with myself, it was in the terms of "forgiving myself for being me", noting that with all that baggage it isn't easy being me.

Another point from the book was that people shouldn't forgive until they are personally ready to do so. Only that person can decide, it isn't up to someone else to shame you into it...then it would be superficial and not authentic.

I do not know if I will ever be able to forgive my EA sister who took over when mother died.

I told my mother I would never forgive her for giving me up and I don't think she cared when I said it or cares about me at all. She has no bearing on this, it is all about what is going to be best for me. I just don't know what that is and feel scared.

perfumedlife I am sorry you lost your brother .

Thanks phipps.

Did you have this dicussion with your mum recently? How much contact do you have with her?

I think if that were me, I would never be able to forgive that, more so as a mother myself now. When you say you dont think she cared about that, did she make what sounded like excuses rather than genuine difficult reasons for doing so?

No, it was many years ago when I said that to her and I have no contact with her at all. I guess I am worried I will regret it. She always says she did everything for me and for the best for me. But she didn't.

I wonder if she has perfected the brave face. I cannot imagine that deep inside she is not woefully sorry she gave you up. But perhaps it's buried so deep even she doesn't know how to feel it.

So, you're worried you will come to regret telling her you have not forgiven her.None of us can predict our future selves, but I think the fact you harbour that worry says you have room for examining this more. You need more knowledge, more time to ruminate it. Don't worry about feeling positive one day and negative the next. That's normal.

I think your mother could badly need your forgiveness but knows she must not expect it so puts on a face of not being too bothered.

When I was facing the situation with my mum, I really did think I was not capable of forgiving her, even if i wanted to. I visualised myself on my death bed, and was sure as I could be that it would still be the right thing. But then, my brothers death and anothers wedding made me start all over, and i knew I wouldn't want to die not having made my peace.

Can you open up a dialogue with her, even by writing, get some answers to see where that places you?

I have no intention of ever speaking to my mother again and do not regret telling her I wouldn't forgive her and to stay out of my life. I wonder if I will regret not making the decision just for myself to forgive her though. Like the right thing to do is more important than the hurt I feel towards her and for what she has done. I can't think of one positive thing she has ever done for me or said to me. Everything has always been all about her.

I have said to me dh about speaking to her and trying to get some answers and he said I won't ever get any.

Our local vicar used to write a column in the local rag. One week he wrote about forgiveness. He said that if the person who has wronged you doesn't show any remorse for their actions or for the hurt they have caused you, then forgiving them does you more harm than good.

However, I think there is a difference between letting go and forgiveness. I think it's possible to eventually let go of things without necessarily forgiving iyswim.

The only other thing I try to do, not in a holier than thou my-halo-is-choking-me sort of way is not to hate anyone. I used to hate my MIL and found that it hurt me more than it hurt her.

Oh I dont think you need even consider forgiving her as the right thing to do. No way. It would only help you if it came from a deep need to forgive her and move on.

She has no right to your forgiveness and many 'crimes' against us are simply unforgivable. Sometimes we need to accept that, they just are too big to get over.

I have heard of many adopted adults facing the same dilemma. They look for answers and few are forthcoming. It can be a terrible blow, and reopens long covered wounds.

What I think you need is to feel at peace with your decision. And she has given you clues to her true character, she is not mother material, and never will be. She will not look deep within herself and be open with you. It must be like mourning, but constantly doing so.

If I were in this position I would tell myself she left me no choice but to withold forgiveness. The decision, yet again, was all hers. She made no effort. So don't beat yourself up, the decision most likely is the right one. But if you feel differently in time, you can still change your mind, or write.

What an absolute horrible situation for you Phipps. What damage this brings.

I can't forgive my abusive ex. I hope I might be able to feel indifferent about what happened on eday or lighter somehow. Mabe it will take forgiveness but some things ARE unforgivable.

Spot on tb, the letting go is a gift you can give yourself, without needing to forgive someone who is not worthy of it, or sorry.

Thats more or less where I am, I have let it go, wont ever forget, may or may not forgive. But it made me happier in myself and it feels good.

Absolutely. Forgiveness is not always appropriate or possible. Acceptance is worth striving for.

I have not set out to forgive my abusive ex. I have worked hard at forgiving myself for finding myself in an abusive relationship and for not leaving sooner. I have also worked hard at accepting the relationship for what it was and also at accepting that my ex was not the person I should have been in a relationship with.

Acceptance does not mean that I condone what happened. It's more that I consciously stop myself from questioning why it happened and beating myself up wondering what I should've done to stop it sooner.

Well done Snorbs on getting that far. It cannot have been easy. You should be very proud of that.

I just don't want to be on my death bed wishing I had forgiven her.

I can't though, I can't ever believe, accept what she has done and said was okay.