Forgiveness - is it always bad to not forgive?

[phipps]

I will never forgive my mother for things she has done. We have no contact and never will. Day to day it has no effect but I wonder what it would feel like if I said I forgave her (just out loud to myself) but what would the point be?

That's totally natural after your childhood. But the logical you knows that it's no longer true. There is an entire family needing and wanting you. And what is great about this is, you chose them, you had a choice and you made the right one. So, despite your mothers best efforts, you do know how to love, care and protect.

The past can never go away, but you can put it in the recess, it took too much from you, why let it have more?

Forgiveness is a two way street. You can only forgive someone who wants to be forgiven and tries to make amends. I'm with everyone else on the acceptance/letting go thing.

What you feel Phipps, is a direct result of what happened to you, and nothing whatsoever to do with you as a person. It's very important that you try to separate out the two things. Don't waste the rest of your life being defined by what happened in the first half. Really.

Hugs.

So I need to accept what happened and not to worry about feeling bad about not forgiving her? Part of the problem is I don't want to accept what has happened to me as a child. I don't want to believe it is true.

I get confused when my children are naughty all day and then come bed time just want mummy. I think they don't care when they don't do as they are told.

I have no clue, do I?

And I know it's only words, but something that struck a chord with me was when someone said that you can't be proud of something over which you had no control. So you can't be proud of being a woman, e.g. You can only be proud of your achievements.

I think the converse is true also: you can't take the blame for things outside your control.

But they're only words unless you can make yourself believe that your mother was/is not your fault.

I wanted to post I do believe it isn't my fault my mother is like she is and didn't want me but immediately I thought is is my fault for being a girl. Why didn't my mother want me? I was such a gorgeous little girl and so good . No trouble at all.

If I thought it would make you believe it, I would sit here posting all night that it is not your fault and it was wrong of your mother to make you feel bad/unwanted for being a girl, something over which neither of you had any control.

Rationally I know it wasn't my fault and I can understand her being a crap mum as she had no role model, but neither did I and I am not making too bad a hash at it.

I have depression and in the past have been scared to allow myself to be well as then I would see how much better life is and know how much time I have wasted being ill. But then I know I can't help it.

Don't let the past define your future phipps. It was nothing to do with you, if you were a boy she would have wanted a girl. What a load of bull, she just didn't want the responsibility. And yes, her upbringing helped make her the disaster zone she was, so look how good you are at making a life, with a poor background! You are a loving wife and mother, the kids wouldn't want anyone other than you.

Listen to me phipps, I think I told you in an different thread that I spent ten years trying to get over someone, and coped by accepting that I might never get over it. You said the same worked for you. Well, this is similar. You might always find part of you looking for the mother you never had, but most of the time you will be living your life, raising your kids, loving your husband. Then one day you will just look within, and find you don't miss her or want her anymore.

I want to thank you for all your kindness on my thread. You have helped me understand so much. I am 38 and think I will never stop wanting a mum but maybe I can stop wishing things were different with mine. Funnily enough I have been talking to a friend today about the getting over someone thing and if I stop trying to force myself to feel differently it does help a bit. Maybe it is okay to accept you will always feel sad about some things.

I agree, it is okay, it's absolutely fine to accept the sad things. I have never got over my grandmas death, thirty years ago. Or the death of my schoolfriend of a heart attack at 10. Some things stay with us forever, but they make us who we are.

If you had not had the childhood you had, you would not be the phipps your dh fell in love with, you would not have the kids who brighten your life. It all lead to here. And here is a good place, you have a good life.

Keep the thread going, it might do you good to chart things, as you go along and try acceptance out for size. And it would be a pleasure to accompany you.

Thank you.

Sorry about your grandmother .

I think about that little girl who was so small and scared as she cowered on the floor as she was kicked and I can't (won't?) believe that was me.

phipps, I know where you are on that one. No-one in their right mind would want my mother as a mother, but sometimes I too have that feeling of a sort of 'I want my Mummy'.

A counsellor once told me that it is possible to reparent yourself as an adult, and so put into place that sort of foundation or underpinning of security and unconditional love.

I'm just buggered if I know how - and that's at 54. Anyone out there any bright ideas as to how this is possible?

I have felt I have been having my childhood now. I have a cuddly toy in my bed, I like DH looking after me, I go mad at Christmas as I can't remember ever having a nice one. I never saw my mother on Christmas day, it is only recently that I have realised that and that she didn't want me then.

I know I have looked to the children to show me how to be a mum but I know that is wrong and they can't.

I can't shake this feeling I will regret it if I don't have some kind of resolution. I don't see how I can though when she has never acknowledged that she made bad choices. If I forgive does that mean it is okay what she did? She only got pregnant as she thought my dad would stay with her. Just my mixed up thoughts there.

Maybe go and get some counselling?

I would say forgiveness is always good, but my definition of forgiveness is more like others letting go. I will not hate the people who hurt me in the past, but neither will I give them any chance to do so again. If anyone had done something bad enough I would stand up in court against them, to stop them being in a position to do it again. But I would still forgive, as I don't want the poison of bitterness in my life.

I never saw my father from when I was 2, and really didn't regret it when he died.

I think to be honest we have to acknowledge the truth of the past, but also realise we have moved on. Gain strength from your DH and your DCs. And you can pity her that she has never known or even understood what you have with them.

Good luck!

Thank you. I think it will end up being one of those things I don't fully resolve.

I know what you mean about needing a resolution. I never had that with my SM before she died so I'm having to deal with it (2 and 1/2 years and I'm not properly over it :P )

I suggest you make a list of what you want to know. Be brutal if neccesary, you have the right to all the answers from her. Arrange to meet somewhere she can't just storm off easily, or bribe her, since she seems to think she's entitled to see your children you can use that. She's not entitled to any consideration of her feelings, since she appears to have none for you. So don't feel guilty about being underhanded or cruel. Ask the same question over and over until you're satisfied you've got the best answer from her - pretend you're a radio 4 presenter getting an answer from a reluctant politician Oh, and don't let her get away with blaming her past. She made her own bad decisions, not her own mother, stepmother or other person. I'm sure they made enough bad decisions of their own but that isn't the point.

Once you have an understanding of what her reasons are, you can start to move past it. Forgivness doesn't mean you think she was right, it just means you can get a handle on it and let go of your poisonous negative feelings and that nagging feeling of unanswered questions.

This is what I did to my own mother. She walked out when I was 6 and when I was 15 or so I needed the answers to hard questions. I reduced her to a blubbering wreck before I was finished. I'm still proud of myself that I had the strength to do that! Now I know what happened with my parents I can look at them as weak and stupid and to be pitied rather than heartless and cruel and to be feared or hated. They can't hurt me any more.

On her reason for having a child, I don't know what it is with people thinking they can get the man/woman they're living with to stay by using the kids. That's what my Father did (He tried to keep my mother by telling her she'd lose the kids if she left. She left anyway....) I know at least three women who've had kids to try and save their relationship. It never bloody works and they screw up a new life in the process.

Sorry, one of my bugbears took over there...

Nothing will get me to let my mother see my children so that is a no no and I don't want to see her ever again. I will never get any answers from her as she doesn't think she has done anything wrong.

I last saw her to talk too when I was about 20. I have never really tackled her on anything as I was desperate for any mothering I could get but it never happened. She tried to be a mother to me when she just should have tried to be a friend.

I was pretty old before it dawned on me that all my school mates lived at home with their parents. I don't think there is anything she can say that will make everything okay or help me understand. She would never apologise for her decisions. I should stop now as I can feel myself getting bitter.

I think that forgiving someone who will go on to do the same thing over and over is pointless. My aunt endlessly "forgave" my shit uncle, he never changed, he beat her, took her money and took advantage of her till the day he died.

Also, if someone is personality disturbed, they won't care whether you forgive them or not so you are wasting time worrying over it when they couldn't give a monkey's.

So in those cases, I think forgiveness is pointless. All you can do is accept that the other person is a deeply flawed human being. You also are not obliged to have them in your life if they are a source of continual distress. Perhaps compassion is more useful to you as then you can accept what they are without leaving yourself open to being taken advantage of.

I need to say again, this is about me forgiving her in my own mind, not saying it to her. I will not see her again.

She doesn't think she has done anything wrong so wouldn't take kindly to me saying I forgive her if I was to see her.

I just don't want to be a bitter person. .

In my mind, forgiveness is for yourself, not the person you're forgiving. It takes away their power over you, it makes bugger all difference to them (especially if they don't think there's anything to forgive. She sounds like my SM) It does take a huge burden off your mind. If you tell yourself you forgive her, it might be empty words at first, but the more you repeat it the more true it will be. Takes a long time though so be patient.

Oh I am definitely thinking about this from how it will help me. I don't think about her very often, or what happened when I was small, but then sometimes I just feel about 3 and want a mum. I have things going on at the moment which are huge and it kind of makes me think of things like this.

Phipps - sometimes the asking questions can backfire. DD did something that triggered flashbacks that I'd never had before, but were the last pieces of a puzzle. I had neither spoken to, nor seen, my mother for 14 years. I rang her, but she wouldn't tell me anything, just asked my why I was asking her the question.

You might, if you are lucky, get answers, on the other hand you might feel worse as a result. It just depends, I don't think at all that it means that you are weak if you decide not to go down that route.