You attitude to Pornography

[BethanJKendra]

Hey guys. Just joined but have been a long time browser of the site.

I was just wondering what everyone's attitude to their OH watching porn was? My DH does and is quite open about it. He's asked me to join in but it's not really my scene. I've never really minded him doing it, though. I thought it was just something most guys did to get off, not all that different from reading a trashy romance novel or the like.

The thing is, I got a call from my friend the other day. She was distraught, in floods of tears. I go meet her and apparently she's split up with her boyfriend of four years because she found porn in his internet history.

At first I thought it must have been something sick or disgusting to prompt such a reaction from her. I asked, and she explained it was just regular, man on woman stuff (some woman on woman, of course). The reason she was so upset was because she didn't like the idea of him imagining or seeing other women naked.

Am I wrong to think she is being unreasonable? I could understand if he was actively deceiving her, but that doesn't seem to be the case, unless you count lying by omission. It makes me think that maybe I'm wrong to be so laid back about it.

What are other people's views?

[hwink]

Giving some posters the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you are responding to the OP and her "friend story" but for many of us, this isn't about banning porn and our partners "taking a sneaky look". This infantilises men and portrays women in a parenting role. I wonder are some of you overlooking the fact that lots of men, especially fathers, are also questioning porn and have as much a political dislike of it as women? Or perhaps you believe that "all men" like porn and are "visual creatures"?

The argument that "it is everywhere, so what can you do?" is specious. Nothing would change if everyone was this defeatist and in any case, those of you expounding this view have stated that you don't see the harm in porn, or your partners' use of it. Therefore I am slightly confused about where these posters stand on the issue. Do you think it's a good thing then that porn is so easily accessible? And are you saying that the reason you don't object to it is because you believe your partners will deceive you and look at it anyway?

SGB posed a question earlier about whether objectors have different standards for a particular genre of written porn, which she acknowledges is often misogynistic. My answer is "no". I don't want to read about men or women being humiliated in any way, but one of my other objections to the type of stuff you mentioned SGB is that it is so badly written and therefore about as erotic as a mouldy tea-towel...

I think it's also really interesting to hear posters mention that their sex lives are enhanced by the absence of porn and I would echo those sentiments. I cannot imagine having better sex than I am having right now, with a man who has an incredible imagination and finely-honed skills, but who isn't a porn-user.

Amazon, I think you'l find it's "African Caribbean' rather than 'Afro Caribbean'. Please try and keep up with racial terms.

WhenwillIfeelnormal - genuine question - has your DP really never looked at porn? (BTW, to me, looking at porn is the same thing as 'using it', but is a much less dramatic description).

And sorry, forgot to say, in answer to your question, I don't necessarily think porn is a 'good' thing, because that's a strange way to describe it. But I don't think it's a bad thing either. I can take it or leave it and have no problem with anybody enjoying looking at it.

And no the reason I don't object is not that I think my partner would deceive me and look at it anyway, but that I decided with my own mind that I wasn't bothered by it! Why are you assuming that people like me are being 'forced' in some way not to object to porn and are not just making our own minds up?

Im sorry but the theory that most women in porn are abused and raped are so outdated and incorrect. Some of the DVDs we have watched the women appear to be having more fun than the men.
I'm sure that the internet has some people who produce porn for the wrong reason but for those who like to use it to act out fantasys and enduldge in a bit of role play there is plenty of 'legitimate' porn out there.

MooMoo Of course my H has looked at porn, as have I. What I said downthread was that we have both shifted our views about it, for so many reasons.

What was regarded as hard porn when we were teenagers in the 1980s is absolutely mainstream now and the criminal activity associated with it has changed beyond recognition; the middle-market drugs racket, the misery of human trafficking, the violence which is mainly (but not exclusively) directed at women. I think many people like to pretend that this is "trick photography" but the injuries sustained by women involved in porn are absolutely horrendous - what you see on the screen is actually happening.

The landscape has changed so much. The proliferation of violence in porn, the increased misogyny, the accessibility, the abuse of the performers, the links to other criminal activity, the consumer desensitisation to joyful sex, the pernicious effect on young and vulnerable people and overwhelming evidence that there is often transference between how women and young girls especially are treated in these "productions" - and how they are treated in everyday life.

I'm going to break protocol here, but the OP from this thread (who has never returned), posted on another thread yesterday about her H's behaviour, that would have most of running for the hills, including beating up the family dog when his team loses at football. I think there is a link between his disrespectful behaviour and porn and a link between the OP's tolerance of porn and her acceptance of such vicious, inhumane behaviour.

The reason I queried where you stood on it MooMoo was that you had said downthread that you had no objection to it, but more recently said:

"I can't see many men not taking a sneaky look some new jiggly bits when they get the chance - and the chances are everywhere nowadays, as you say, so what's the point in getting all freaked out about it???"

If someone is taking a "sneaky" look at porn, does that not imply that they are doing something that they know their partner might object to?

I was therefore confused whether you were happy about your partner's use of porn, or whether you had reasoned that regardless of your views, he would take a "sneaky look" anyway.

I reiterate that everyone is entitled to their views on this and I respect anyone's right to disagree, as long as it is an informed decision. I dislike gender-based stereotypes and will always defend men from some of the worst porn stereotypes, such as most of them like it/use it, or that they respond mainly to visual stimuli, simply because there is no evidence to support it.

I think there's an interesting debate about how young men respond to the expectation that they will like and use porn and another debate about why younger women who have grown up in a culture of lads mags seem to feel that they should accept and embrace porn. I think both of those issues need challenging and are exercising the minds of many parents of teenagers.

Really Bucketcrutch? Do tell us then, what efforts you make as a couple to investigate the provenance of these DVDs you watch, where the women "appear to be" enjoying it more than the men. Tell us what research you've uncovered to show that abuse and rape doesn't happen in modern-day porn, then we can have a debate.

I would hate to be a teenage girl in the current climate, this generation of boys(soon to be men) have grown up to a different genre of porn that we did.
There will be those that see things on the internet that they will believe to be the norm and its not.

Back in the day when porn was just a couple 'getting it on' it was acceptable but now days I really dont think it is.

Bluebeach dear, I think YOU will find that either the former or latter is perfectly acceptable and just because I shortened it to Afro-Caribbean does not diminish its value, or change its meaning.

Furthemore my sweet, these are not terms that describe a race but an ethnicity.

SA

Men who use porn are misogynists.

Porn use is a total dealbreaker for me.

I can't imagine many things less attractive than a man who likes to pleasure himself to pictures of women being treated as pieces of meat.

Even worse if he tried to convince me it was all ok because of his amazing ability to "compartmentalise" his adolescent sexual predilections from his existence in a world populated by human women he's meant to care about and respect.

Porn should form a crucial part of any normal relationship. It's better to watch porn with your husband than have him go off to his "command centre" every night for half an hour. It's a bit awkward trying to tell the kids that dad is having some personal time. This is why I try to watch som porn with my husband at night in bed.

Oh dear, Bucketcrutch, do they really appear to be having more fun than the men... Would it be the pasted on smiles or the encouraging noises that indicate how much fun it is? Or something else?

Sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad. Sad that we seem to think so poorly of men and expect them to be controlled by their alleged appetites, and have accepted as normal the gross mistreatment of other women, and young girls.

KerryKatona -- sad and deluded.

'Im sorry but the theory that most women in porn are abused and raped are so outdated and incorrect. Some of the DVDs we have watched the women appear to be having more fun than the men.'

How can you possibly know? Would you want your DD to act in one? If not it is sheer hypocrisy to watch someone else's DD. Treat others as you would like to be treated. I find it horrible that someone should be treating a fellow human being as a sex object for their own gratification without knowing anything about their background, personality, why they are doing it, if they are coerced, if they are happy, if they have a drug problem etc.
If you can say that they are consenting adults and quite happy and that it is a valid career choice for your DS or DD then fine-but if it is alright for other people's DCs but not your DC then it isn't.

whenwillIfeelnormal - then I would urge you to break protocol again and also have a look at my other posts, because you will then find 'proof' that despite my DH sometimes having a look at porn, he is a lovely, considerate and very decent man.

I'm not naive, and I realise that very sadly there is a problem with some porn being exploitative. But to brand any man who looks at porn to be a misogynist, and every woman in porn a victim, is unfair and does nothing to help either sex IMO.

Of course you can look at porn without actively using it.

I've seen porn, so has my husband, but we don't use porn as a sexual stimulant - nothing is less erotic to both of us.
Depictions of sex in films/books etc. can be far more sexually arousing because they aren't showing the graphic detail and you can use your imagination - your brain is the most sexual organ you have - porn takes your brain out of the equation.

This brainwashing that all men use/like porn

MooMoo I would have neither the time or the inclination to do that, because it's what you think that matters, not me. The OP, whom I suspect is trolling along with other new posters on this thread, posted on another thread on the same day as she started this one, so her unusual name was fresh in my memory when responding here.

However, I think this thread has served a useful purpose, because like others, I just want to challenge some of the myths about men and pornography use, some of which I believe are terribly damaging to political men with a social conscience and an imagination that has evolved beyond visual titillation.

I also think that lots of people who were previously unfussed about porn find that they change their views when they have teenagers and have a parent's concern about its corrupting effect. This often causes people to revisit their own double-standards, as Pisces suggests. I've got no idea how old your children are MooMoo or even if you have any, but I'd be interested to see whether you and your H change your views about porn as time passes.

I also wonder why your H is interested in porn and you're not. Why do you really think there is a difference between you? What does he get out of it that you don't? If he's a lovely decent man whom you respect, I expect you won't patronise him by saying that he has no imagination and gets sexual release by visual stimulation, so why the difference? How much do you think this is to do with social conditioning about it being "natural" for men to use porn and for women to be good-natured about it, even if it does nothing for them?

Like I said downthread, I think this is the interesting part of the debate, which trolls notwithstanding, can be conducted in an adult manner.

As a man I don't want to get involved in the discussions around misogyny etc as I know they have the tendency to be pretty divisive and people's views are fairly rigid on areas like this.

However, I do have a question as I'm not quite sure into what category this falls and/or whether it creates the same level of discomfort with some of those opposed to the generic idea of porn.

Both my wife and I watch occassionally - sometimes together, sometimes alone. When my wife is watching alone her preference is very much boy:boy action. Generically, would people immediately tar this with the same brush of objectification/abuse that seems to be the case with female:male porn? Am geniunely interested as to whether the whole concept of porn becomes unacceptable, or it is the potential misuse of the people in it that is actually the dealbreaker?

Thanks - hope that isn't too much of a hijack...

Yes. It is all objectification/abuse. The concept of porn is inseparable from the potential misuse (I assume you mean abuse) of the people in it. Abuse goes deeper than just someone being physically, sexually or psychologically damaged.

Essentially porn is an experience of one person using another, no matter what level you look at the industry or the process of manufacturing, selling and using it. There's a power/disempowerment element there at each stage.

My DP and I occasionally watch Porn together - its rare that we get any bedroom time together at the moment but when we do we enjoy adding in a bit of porn. We even have a secret video of us togther done in such a way that neither of us is identifiable - just for care's sake - even more so in our current relationship situation

Yes, and this is the same selfish man who would rather go out with his mates than celebrate your anniversary?

Sad to see so many young women so accepting of porn - one can only hope that they will change their attitudes when their daughters start to grow up.

MrMeaner I agree with Math and make no distinction between the orientation of the participants. Male participants suffer injuries to their bodies too, but there are also significant links between the gay porn industry and abuse of young men .

Many apologists for porn admit that they wouldn't want their female relatives involved in the industry and see no irony in their compartmentalised double-standard. In debate, some of them belligerently claim that they would support a daughter if this was her career choice, but would blanch at the prospect of their son being sodomised for money, a practice that they had previously cheerfully endorsed happening to their daughter. Makes you think, huh?

Ah, yet another link to marriage-reducing behaviour then Mal?