What do you do when there's one huge repetitive obstacle in an otherwise perfect relationship?

[vixen1]

Hi all,

I've been with my husband for 10 years, since I was 18. I love him, I love our family and I love our home. He's an amazing dad, we get on really well and have a great sex life...

However...

We have massive arguments at least once a week which are making us both miserable and question our suitability for each other.

I'm going to put my side forward as that's all I can do. I know he probably has a different story to tell but that's half my worry, I don't think either one of us is right or wrong just that we might not be very well suited.

I feel as though he always disagrees with the way I conduct my personal life (for want of a better phrase) and he is unable to accept that I am different from him and as such I like to do things in a different way.

For example one of our latest HUGE arguments was centered around the fact that I prefer to text my friends rather than speak on the phone. [Bear in mind that he KNOWS this about me because we have had this very same conversation/argument in excess of 5 times over the years] He told me that I should phone because that's what "normal people" do. I explained my reasons for preferring to text and he then starts to appear moody saying "For God's sake here we go again, arguing on a weekend. Your trouble is that you won't ever take help from anybody, just like that time at your mother's... blah blah blah" He says all this in a very angry way and it escalates from there.

This always makes me mad because it doesn't have to be an argument!!! I try really hard not to react although it's REALLY difficult. Even if I manage it he sulks for the rest of the day and usually brings it up later - I end up feeling like he's sparring for a fight. It always ends badly We try really hard not to argue in front of the boys but I'm ashamed to say that's not always been the case. Even if we manage not to there's an almost tangiable atmosphere... I don't want my boys to have to grow up in that environment.

Let me just make it clear, I know it all sounds very trivial but that was just an example. From my point of view he's always telling me to find a hobby, do my finances differently, phone Anna or go for riding lessons. It's not that I mind these suggestions but what I do mond is the massive one sided argument which ensues should I choose not to do what he suggests.

I also want to make it clear that these "suggestions" are unsolicited. I'm perfectly happy with my life and never make any complaints that would warrant his kind of frustration. I feel like he just wants me to be a different person sometimes.

My feeling is that he's generally dissatisfied with his life. He's always complaining that we don't organise our social life well enough (even though I really do go out of my way to do so, I can't do any more). He's also always complaining that he doesn't get enough time down the gym/playing tennis. I know that he's quite likely projecting his dissatisfaction on to me hence the constant "suggestions" about how I could improve my life. But to be honest after trying to deal with this for 10 years I feel it's finally getting the better of us. It's damaging my self esteem and I'm worried about any lasting effect our constant arguments might have on our boys .

It doesn't help that I work shifts, it makes our life incredibly complicated. It's another thing he's always angry about. I know he's not angry at me as such but I'm sick of it always being thrown in my direction.

Thank you so much for reading... what do you think, honestly?

We've tried talking and talking and talking, it gets us nowhere. Everything I've said on this post I have said to him but to no avail. We want to try relationship counselling but we have no babysitters at all... help

Counselling sounds like a good idea. Have you thought about professional babysitters? Or daytime appointments if/when your dc are at school or childcare?

My dh is little bit like this. If I don't take his 'advice' I am being 'stubborn'. I know how patronising it can be on the receiving end.

What would his side of the story be if he were on this thread?

honestly counselling is the way to go - saying it infront of a third person will make you both feel like twats. you will realise how twatty you are both being, over nothing. and the counsellor will give you some useful techniques to help deal with the situation.

our favourite way of dealing with stuff like this is saying "i hear what you are saying and i understand your POV...." this lets him know that you have heard what he has said and you understand "... however i wish to do xyz this way"

on a not so understanding day my response would be " its hardly life or death darling, if the way i communicate with my friends frustrates you so much, get a fucking real probem"

Custardo - PMSL!!! I should try that one . Unfortunately comments like that in the past have just enraged him further and descended into a huge row...

Pacermint - I totally agree - we are being extremely twatty but I honestly feel that these are arguments I don't want to have and they are usually one sided. Before I met DH I never used to argue with anyone really, I certainly wasn't an argumentative tpe of person but I am now. When I think back to our first 2 arguments we ever had they were TOTALLY one sided. For example, when we had been together about 6 months (and still had individual lives) he blew up at me because I wanted to give some money to a friend of mine. I juat sat there while he shouted at me and told me all the reasons it was a "stupid" idea. I said nothing back and we ended up not talking for the whole day. The trouble is I was very young and I've now learnt to argue back. I don't know if this argumentative streak that I've developed is down to age or down to the fact I was sick of being shouted at for no good reason . I don't think we could consider professional babysitters as the boys (one of whom has special needs) would absolutely frek out if they woke up and realised we weren't there. The daytime could be considered but we couldn't go with any regularity as getting time off work is difficult for both of us. Do you think a one off session would do any good? Is there anyone that does counselling from your home? Thanks x

Pacermint - Just seen your last question... I guess his side of it is that he thinks I should be open to trying to do things differently. He thinks that doing X might solve a problem and gets frustrated when I don't want to do it. He always says, "why don't you just try it?" I usually answer with "becasue I don't feel that there's a problem to be fixed" or "because I don't personally agree that X will help" Either one makes him angry. You might say well why don't I just try it but these are often things that I HAVE tried and they didn't work. eg. taking the boys to sleep over at a friend's house so we can socialise. I tried this last week and both boys were up till 1am, then DS 1 who's under investigation for Autism literally SCREAMED for an hour and a half and I had to bring them home in a taxi. Not something I'm prepared to repeat but for some reason he thinks it might be ok to try again.

vixen - my H used to be like this (almost exactly), and I ended up blue in the face telling him that just because he gave me 'advice' (usually unasked for) did not mean that I had to follow it. Then a huge row would start about how little I respected him etc etc.
I was completely confused as things were horribly confrontational. After lots of reading here I started noticing other things about my H's behaviour - essentially he could tick all the boxes for someone who was being emotionally and verbally abusive. On top of this there were minor physical things, shoving me, breaking things etc. I realised that I felt I was walking on eggshells all the time to avoid rows.
Finally when I realised what was happening (it was a huge huge shock involving panic attacks, thinking I was mad etc). I confronted H, told my parents, and we both started individual therapy.
A year down the line and H has made huge huge improvements. We talked this weekend in depth about what had happened to our relationship, he now describes it as violent himself and he is very remorseful. I, on the other hand, am becoming less hazy on the concept of boundries (my own) and am not putting up with any of the rubbish that he was spewing.
Don't get tangled up in the rights and wrongs of a particular argument. Try to focus on whether you feel you are respected within your relationship and see where that leads you.

Newnamethistime - Thanks for that, it's great to hear that you can come out the other side. I don't think I do feel completely respected. It's sometimes the little things over a period of time which can be quite demoralising. For example, we had some friends over at the weekend and DH made several "jokey" comments about the boys having baby dolls to play with which I bought them and their hair being a mess (I decided I'd quite like to grow it). Again, these things are petty and trivial but have a fairly serious undertone. The real reason the boys have uncut hair and baby dolls is because of DS 1's issues - he HATES having his hair cut and playing with dolls is a fantastic way to encourae his imaginative play which is seriously lacking. I felt really embarrassed and a bit defensive at the comments. I know he wasn't deliberatly trying to embarrass me but I think he was almost "showing off" to his male friends out of his own embarrassment. It's little things like this which also undermine my respect for him, it adds up over a period of time. So if I'm completely honest I think there are respect issues all round.

Hi vixen, I really identify with some of this, my now XH was very similar. It was very wearing and began to erode my self esteem over time. We had the ASD concerns with our ds too (and I did at times wonder if H had some traits also).

I think one point which struck me was that when your dc has additional needs, as mothers we become incredibly sensitive to their comfort and safety. If your partner doesn't share that emotional responsibility it can lead to real division. It certainly did in our case. I felt H trivialised my concerns and made no attempt to share the burden of care.

I think the joint counselling is a great idea. The most important thing is to communicate about this.

Thatsnotmyfruitshoot - Do you mind me asking why you and your H ultimately split up? Also, I know it's not relevant to this thread as such but how is your dc doing now? One thing that makes me sad and cross is that DH seems to take no interest in DS's therapies and reports. He never reads them and he behaves on one hand as if I exaggerate all my concerns. On the other hand he's the first to complain when DS has a bad day about how he's not right. His opinion seems to depend on whether or not he's directly affected by DS's behaviour.

It seems to me that your DH doesn't see you as a separate person. It really is none of his business whether you text or ring your friends - why is he even worried about it?

I would echo what fruitshoot suggested and ask if your DH has some ASD tendencies? It seems like he wants things a certain way and if they aren't the way he wants he gets very angry. That's quite an autistic way of looking at the world, and the fact that he is so inflexible and gets so worked up about it would suggest that it is a genuine problem rather than just being a personality trait.

The situation you describe when you guys had been going out six months sounds quite scary. Whether you gave money or not to your friend was absolutely nothing to do with him, particularly that early in your relationship, and to just scream at you like that is really disrespectful and threatening.

What do you think would happen if he brought up something like the texting thing and you just said (calmly) "Ok that's your opinion but I'm going to do it my way" and just walked away?

I prefer to text some people rather than ring them too for a variety of reasons. It seems a very strange thing to argue about and I wonder if there is more to it. Does he trust you?

Vixen -- to be fair, it's just possible that he has a point about trying again with things like socialising, if the autism diagnosis turns out to be correct. But you can't 'just' try again (as in, do the same again without preparation and see if it works!). If DS has autism, what's more likely is that you'll have to inch your way towards things like this being acceptable (to DS, I mean, not DH). That might mean visiting the friend lots in the daytime, writing social stories about sleeping in different places, letting DS try 5 minutes lying down there... it can take bloody ages to acclimatise an autistic child to a new situation, and it does sound like your DH isn't quite grasping this yet!

Good luck on both fronts.

Writerofdreams - That's exactly what I've done in the past. I'm constantly saying "I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this" and I usually get something along the lines of [extremely frustrated tone] "no we're no going to agree to disagree. I just don't understand why you won't try things. You're so stubborn, you never take advice...etc" If I walk away while he says this he would probably stop but he would be in a seriously bad mood all day, very short with me and creating an atmosphere. If I then try and broach the subject again eg "Can we not forget about this? We've had a minor disagreement now let's get on and enjoy our day" He'll usually come back with a sigh and a downcast/sad expression and say "fine. I just don't understand why you won't EVER try things, you never take advice from anyone, it's like you think you know best blah blah blah" At which point I usually snap. "FFS can we PLEASE stop this?!?! I don't want to argue with you and I don't want an atmosphere" and then of course we descend into an argument. I know I shouldn't react but it's so repetitive and relentless over NOTHING. And when it comes to why he cares if I text or phone I think it comes down to embarrassment again. The friends concerned are actually the wives of his group of mates. I think he's worried they'll perceive me as weird if I don't conform to common etiquette. I also think that's why he's constantly angry at my shift work - because it often precludes me from meeting up with this group of people and I think he wants me to be "in" with them. I actually feel like he's embarrassed by me sometimes. I don't DO anything to embarrass him as such but I've never been a "sheep", particularly where this group of people are concerned... Sadly and stupidly I seem to have lost all the friends I had when DH and I got together because he never made an effort with them. I could always tell that he wasn't enjoying himself when we saw them, he wouldn't try and pretend otherwise. Being very young and naive and wanting to do anything to please him I don't see any of them anymore. Stupid me, I know.

Sorry, crossed posts there...

Lancelottie - That's exactly how I want to handle the situation. I've said to DH that I'll try again but maybe when they're older and feel more secure in a different place. The social stories are a great idea, we already do one for not hugging strangers but I hadn't thought of doing one for sleepovers! Unfortunately DH wants to try again in 3 weeks time!!

Phipps - I definitely don't think it's a trust issue. We've both always been very trusting...I think it's more that he's worried his friend's wives will think I'm strange as they all phone each other. He'll never admit it but the opinions of this particular group of friends REALLY matters to him... to the point where I think he's actually embarrassed because I'm not "in" with them as much as the others.

Grr, just had another typical example: He came home to tell me that he'd been speaking with friend X (part of the group) about his girlfriend's birthday (friend Y, female). DH said friend X told him they were celebrating friend Y's birthday near to where we live as all her family are from there. DH said "Ah, Vixen's free that weekend if you were thinking of having a party with your friends."

I said to DH "I appreciate where you were coming from by telling them I was free that weekend but I really wish you wouldn't, it makes me feel quite uncomfortable because now she's going to feel obliged to invite me"

DH:"No she's not. She needs toi know you were free otherwise how would she know to invite you?"

Me "She's a big girl and can sort her own social life, if she wants me there she knows where I am. She could just ask if I'm available on such and such a date."

DH: "You don't understand. It's not that easy with your shifts [voice sounding exasperated]. You just don't undersatnd what it's like for people who don't work shifts, they don't know when you'r free, they just don't bother to invite you anywhere anymore."

Me: "That's not true, they can always contact me and find out"

DH "I guess we'll just have to "agree to disagree" [tone suggests mocking my previous point from our last argument]

Me "Ok, but could I ask that you please don't invite me to other people's parties on my behalf, it makes me uncomfortable"

DH "Oh here we fucking go again. EVERY bloody week." [Huffs audibly, stomps downstairs, doesn't talk to me or the kids all through bedtime. Still in a mood now, creating a bad atmosphere]

I'm sorry to bore you with the whole dialogue, especially since it's so trivial but it's happening so often it's really affecting our marriage. He seems obsessed with these friends and forcing their friendship on me. Oh, and he had another dig at my shifts. "I fucking HATE your shifts, you can never do ANYTHING" stomp stomp....

GRRRRRRRRRR.... now drinking copious amounts of wine. Me not him.

Oh it all sounds very familiar - the being pushed into doing things which you aren't quite comfortable with. It's awful. What eventually broke us up was an OW, who offered him an alternative life without the responsibilities! He was far too shortsighted not to take it and they've been living the life of riley ever since.

I think ultimately H just couldn't cope with the restrictions small dc's placed on his life (especially the health concerns which he never properly acknowledged), and having them at arms length now suits him down to the ground.

If I were you I think I'd try and rekindle some old friendships. It isn't fair that you're forced to spend time with his crew, but you've been made to feel uneasy seeing your real friends. Make sure you aren't isolated, you need people who are going to support you.

I think it's quite controlling actually.

Thatsnotmyfruitshoot - Thank you for that. What's an OW? Original Wife? Old Woman? Actually I think you might have hit the nail on the head... he can't cope with the restrictions from having two little people. He ADORES them, I know he does but he also places his own happiness and wellbeing so high up in his priorities that it's in direct conflict with the wellbeing of his family ie me and the kids (and actually usually wins out). You're absolutely right, I need my own friendships so I've been working on that. Sadly DH put me into a situation with my closest friends which mean we'll never be close again (long story but she owed me money from council tax, he kept e-mailing her without my knowledge, eventually he became quite abusive and she obviously thought I was behind it ) However, I have rekindled a good relationship with a girl from work who is lovely and SO similar to me in every way. I really don't think DH will like her though as she smokes and is a bit of a party animal (however she also manages to be a fantastic mother of two at the same time). He has actually even suggested I invite her and her partner over but I'm really worried he'll hate it because we might talk about work (he hostorically HAYES it when I have work mates over). To be fair to him we work in an industry which is incestuous and all consuming so I can imagine him feeling left out. However it's an impossible topic to avoid because my parents worked there, her parents worked there, her partner's parents worked there and all our parents were friends!! Last time we had a row he even mentioned that I would be better off if I married someone from work

Proudnscary - sorry, I crossed with you... what makes you say that? I'm curious because I've always wondered if it was a bit contolling but for lots of different reasons have just assumed I'm paranoid about that...

Sorry for all the typos.... I'm being a numpty...

Well, for the obvious reasons really I suppose. That he is trying to control what you do and say. And seems very critical. It's hard to say obviously since I don't know you or him so I don't want to say it's necessarily worrying or shows signs of emotional abuse (partly because I have no first hand experience of that) but it does seem quite unhealthy. I think Relate counselling would be a good start.

I am astonished that this stuff goes on and you still love him and have a great sex life. (obviously it's a good thing that you do!)

I know that's not helpful, but I can't understand it at all. I would end up hating my husband if he picked fights like that

OW usually means other woman.

Sounds like he cares more what other people think than his wife.

yesyouknowme - OMG, that almost brings tears of relief to my eyes. I know that sounds weird but I've thought for ages that that's exactly what he does - pick fights - but I've always countered that with thinking it must be me, I'm difficult to live with, not very nice etc...Especially having suffered PND I thought it was down to me. I know it sounds odd but it's such a relief to have someone confrim that's what it sounds like, it might even give me the strength to be able to rise above it and stop stooping to his level... thank you xx

Phipps - Thanks for that, still getting used to the new acronyms. Yes. you've sadly hit the nail on the head

you are welcome. it is so obvious to an objective outsider (me ) that he is picking fights with you.

My dh has done this very thing to a much lesser degree in the past.I did learn to rise above it and ignore.( It was MUCH harder to ignore the huffs that would last long past the disagreement !)

Now we don't know whether you are hard to live with / not nice ( You sound lovely actually ) but that is not the point.

Whatever is bugging him he should not be picking fights