What do you do when there's one huge repetitive obstacle in an otherwise perfect relationship?

[vixen1]

Hi all,

I've been with my husband for 10 years, since I was 18. I love him, I love our family and I love our home. He's an amazing dad, we get on really well and have a great sex life...

However...

We have massive arguments at least once a week which are making us both miserable and question our suitability for each other.

I'm going to put my side forward as that's all I can do. I know he probably has a different story to tell but that's half my worry, I don't think either one of us is right or wrong just that we might not be very well suited.

I feel as though he always disagrees with the way I conduct my personal life (for want of a better phrase) and he is unable to accept that I am different from him and as such I like to do things in a different way.

For example one of our latest HUGE arguments was centered around the fact that I prefer to text my friends rather than speak on the phone. [Bear in mind that he KNOWS this about me because we have had this very same conversation/argument in excess of 5 times over the years] He told me that I should phone because that's what "normal people" do. I explained my reasons for preferring to text and he then starts to appear moody saying "For God's sake here we go again, arguing on a weekend. Your trouble is that you won't ever take help from anybody, just like that time at your mother's... blah blah blah" He says all this in a very angry way and it escalates from there.

This always makes me mad because it doesn't have to be an argument!!! I try really hard not to react although it's REALLY difficult. Even if I manage it he sulks for the rest of the day and usually brings it up later - I end up feeling like he's sparring for a fight. It always ends badly We try really hard not to argue in front of the boys but I'm ashamed to say that's not always been the case. Even if we manage not to there's an almost tangiable atmosphere... I don't want my boys to have to grow up in that environment.

Let me just make it clear, I know it all sounds very trivial but that was just an example. From my point of view he's always telling me to find a hobby, do my finances differently, phone Anna or go for riding lessons. It's not that I mind these suggestions but what I do mond is the massive one sided argument which ensues should I choose not to do what he suggests.

I also want to make it clear that these "suggestions" are unsolicited. I'm perfectly happy with my life and never make any complaints that would warrant his kind of frustration. I feel like he just wants me to be a different person sometimes.

My feeling is that he's generally dissatisfied with his life. He's always complaining that we don't organise our social life well enough (even though I really do go out of my way to do so, I can't do any more). He's also always complaining that he doesn't get enough time down the gym/playing tennis. I know that he's quite likely projecting his dissatisfaction on to me hence the constant "suggestions" about how I could improve my life. But to be honest after trying to deal with this for 10 years I feel it's finally getting the better of us. It's damaging my self esteem and I'm worried about any lasting effect our constant arguments might have on our boys .

It doesn't help that I work shifts, it makes our life incredibly complicated. It's another thing he's always angry about. I know he's not angry at me as such but I'm sick of it always being thrown in my direction.

Thank you so much for reading... what do you think, honestly?

We've tried talking and talking and talking, it gets us nowhere. Everything I've said on this post I have said to him but to no avail. We want to try relationship counselling but we have no babysitters at all... help

You need to decide what you want to do. You can't change him but you can change your life. Make him see that his actions are making you very unhappy and is he fine with that. Your life should be happy, your husband should make sure of it.

Vixen, you sound alike a perfectly reasonable person whose only crime is that you stand up for yourself when your extremely rigid and controlling husband tries to push you around.
As other people have said, many of the things you've mentioned that have led to arguments are very trivial and none of his business.He's out of place to find fault with them at all, far less sulk for hours about them when you decide to do things your way.
You might find it useful to read the threads about abusive partners and check whether he ticks any of the boxes for abuse.

Oh gawd, thank you everyone (especially yesyouknowme because you said I sound lovely ) I really think some of this advice has helped. I've already found the strength/will to ignore his strop from earlier and he seems to be over it although I'm sure it's not the last I've heard. Maybe we're making headway... I really hope so xx

Vixen, you should be able to be you around your DH and to feel good about yourself. I would agree with others that he sounds quite controlling and very very judgemental. The whole incident where he mentioned you were free to that girl is quite weird. If my DH did something similar and I wasn't happy with it he'd just apologise and move on, not get all stroppy and childish about it. Surely it should be up to you whether you want this girl to know you're available or not?

It's such a shame that you feel you have to hide your friend from your DH. You are totally submitting to his control by allowing him to judge this friend for you before he's even met her - you're so used to his inflexible ways that you're abiding by his rules without him even having to enforce them.

As another poster said, I'm surprised your relationship works at all - if I had to live with someone who was so stroppy and judgemental then it'd drive me nuts.

Vixen - I think you should re-read your original post - "He's an amazing dad, we get on realy well and have a great sex life" - this doesn't really fit with all the rest of the stuff that is going on in your marriage.

For what it's worth I think your H sounds very insecure and if you don't take his advice he sees it as a personal affront against him, rather than just your opinion. I also think he is threatened by the fact that you might have friends outside of his circle i.e. those that he has chosen for you. I think he feels thretened by the texts too, because if you are on the phone, he can hear your side of the conversation, but texts can seem a bit secretive and he like to be in control and is threatened when he isn't.

He IS treating you badly and I think is trying (and happily failing) to get you to be submissive to him. This is the hallmark of an insecure male who doesn't probably even realise he is insecure.

What do you know of his background, do you know how he was treated as a child, what is his relationship like with his parents. My guess is that he might have had a parent (usually a father) who was overly critical of him or was demanding/controlling - you know, sins of the fathers. Maybe his parents were not emotionally available to him and this has caused problems for him in his adult life. We are all the product of our childhood experiences really and it is very difficult because most men would rather walk over broken glass than discuss feelings!

Sorry but he doesn't sound like an amazing father to me. Why does he subject the children to his sulky moods all over nothing if he adores them so much.

Sorry Vixen but I think like a lot of women in your position, you have been deluding yourself that this is a good marriage and it imay be you that is at fault. I don't think tthis is the case - you sound like a very nice level headed woman who is doing her best to cope with a controlling H.

I think you must find a way to get counselling (and no one session is no good at all) it will take sometime to get to the root of what is behind your H's behaviour towards you (well it will almost certainly be related to his own upbringing)and even longer for him to accept it and learn to regulate his emotions and modify his behaviour.

Sending you good wishes - BUT stay STRONG.

Writerofdreams - "you're so used to his inflexible ways that you're abiding by his rules without him even having to enforce them." My God, I wish I had the eloquence to be able to articulate this, you're EXACTLY right. Frustratingly, judgements I made as an 18/19 year old are coming back to bite me on the bum. I thought it was weird that he mentioned I was free too. Not weird for him though, that's exactly the type of thing he'd usually do. It's precisely things like this that I've lost all perspective on. I kind of thought all DH's did this kind of thing and perhaps I was being unreasonable... I had nothing to use as a yardstick to suggest otherwise. Now I'm beginning to realise it's not the way the world works...

I honestly can't tell you how grateful I am for the advice and opinions x

Good partners are definitely not like this. A marriage is a partnership so you should both be able to lead your own lives and do your own thing (within reason) without the other person constantly trying to change you.

To be honest just the extent to which your DH is so negative about your job would be a deal breaker for me - a job's a job and you have to do it, so why does he add stress to your life by being so stroppy about it? If you worked very long hours or did something very dangerous I could understand him complaining a bit about it (now and again) but him constantly harping on about it must really get on your nerves and grind you down.

Sorry NanaNina, crossed again... really interesting what you say about his parents. They aren't very warm towards him and have never been easy to talk to. One of the first times I met them they really made me cross because DH was telling them of an achievement he'd made and they TOTALLY ignored it and changed the subject back to themselves.

They're very difficult to talk to but they really love their Grandchildren. You should see the look on DH's face when they play together, it's so obvious that he wants to please them but they never seem to notice, it breaks my heart.

On the plus side they have NEVER argued in front of him (so he says) wich is why he sulks around the children - he has NO IDEA how sensitive children can be and what they can pick up on. Our backgrounds couldn't be more different- I come froma broken family, raised by my Dad and step-mum and have a good relationship with all of them now. I has given me first hand experience of how perceptive children can be, I was alwyas aware of my parents arguing and it made me feel sick to my stomach.

I'm going to do some research into the counselling... I HAVE to try everything...

"it's like you think you know best"

Hang on. You're a grown woman. Of course you know best for the day to day details of running your OWN life.

Whyever wouldn't you?

Vixen - glad you are getting some clarity now. Please please please do not do joint counselling with him.
It will be a disaster - speaking from personal experience. You will end up sounding confused and your H will take advantage of this. He will say that you are difficult to communicate with for XYZ reasons.He will tell the counsellor that it is extremely difficult to live with someone with PND for example (i.e. you are crazy - I'm pretty sure he's thrown this around in arguments - has he?) etc etc. On
It is not recommended that couples living in an abusive relationship have joint counselling. It will make things worse. He will be able to say he has tried to fix things and nothing works - i.e. the problem is you.
I spoke to H about our experience with Relate at the weekend and he admitted that this was exactly what happened.
The only thing that will help your H is therapy. Even then he has to be open to the process and engage with it. He will need to be honest for it to work and it takes time. H and I have been in weekly therapy for over a year now.
It is not the path that most recommend here and honestly I would not recommend it either to others, simply because it so often does not work, because of lack of honesty/engagement.
Is there any way you could access some from of counselling for yourself?

form not from

re you H's background. It's a no brainer, he comes from a dysfunctional family and that's why he is the way he is now with his oown wife and family. That is the reason for his behaviour NOT and excuse. Likewise your own background has led you to where you are now (accepting of abusive behaviour towards you).

OW = other woman! Although I like old woman

He managed to find the female equivalent of him and if I posted the kind of things they've been doing I don't think anyone would believe me - such a cliche!!

Newnamethistime - I think that's really sound advice. Reading what you said happened in your joint counselling sessions I think that is ABSOLUTELY what would happen with us as well, I can totally identify with what you're saying. I'd like to stress though that I really, honestly don't think he MEANS to be like this, he's a good person and I'm certainly no angel.

I have been so sad today. For the first time I feel as though I have complete clarity and I've come to realise what I've essentially known all along - that I'm not the type of person my DH wants me to be. In all our time together I've never thought he truly loves me. I mean he CARES for me and likes me but I don't think he LOVES me, I think he settled for me. I'm not being self deprecating with that, I am who I am, I just know now that DH wishes I was someone different. I really don't think he's trying to control me as such, he's just trying to change me.

I think he wants someone less opinionated (not that I am particularly, but I think he'd prefer someone with no real opinions), quieter, lots of hobbies, someone who's best mates with all his friend's wives and someone who doesn't have a real career and earns less than he does. Overall I think I'm too independent and I emasculate him without even meaning to.

I just feel so incredibly sad. He's not really done anything wrong, I just think we're not the right people for each other.

I guess I now have to decide what to do about it. I think I'll try and access some kind of counselling, possibly speak to the GP and see if it can form some part of ongoing treatment for PND.

I really don't know what to do. I guess I may have to reconcile myself with the fact that my husband doesn't love me as much as he should ie warts and all. I think I can live with that but I don't know if he can.

I don't feel I can tell him what I've said in this post, I really don't think it would achieve anything. I don't think he's ever honest with himself and could never bring himself to admit that's the way he feels. I would probably just make him feel like shit: guilty that I'm not happy and frustrated because he would feel like he's walking on eggshells all the time.

Vixen - why do you think it's ok for you live a miserable life?

You do realise that you spend all the time talking about him and his needs?
You see everything from his perspective and seem to have lost your own - all your own needs are squashed to nothing and you seem to be resigned to this?

Why are you worried about him walking on eggshells? Is that the way you feel yourself?

Your H is not honest with himself or you. But you yourself are a master at not being honest with yourself. You do not have a perfect relationship - far far from it.
You sound conditioned.

Newnamethistime - I think I should change the title of my thread - it's making me cringe now because I can see that things are far from perfect!! The reason I believed we had a perfect relationship is probably more to do with the fact that generally I'm happy... I love my home, I ADORE my children and I love the silly little things we do together, you know, the mundane stuff like watching Corrie, playing with the boys etc. It's not like I'm constantly miserable - only when these issues raise their ugly heads.

To be perfectly honest I'm scared that if we separated I might never get that level of happiness back again. Ok, I might find someone who loves me for who I am but there might be issues in other areas.

Overall I CAN'T BEAR the thought of my little boys only seeing their Daddy at weekends because I know how utterly painful that was when I was growing up (I only saw my mum at school holidays). Settling for a less than perfect relationship seems a small price to pay in comparison to the pain they would go through.

I feel like I should try just sucking it up for a while, maybe change tack and tell him to get stuffed everytime he tries to tell me what to do. Ignore his huffs and like a petulant child he might learn to give up.

Gawd, I think I'm going to have to have a chat with him tonight aren't I?

Reading all this I am wondering if the OP's DH is exhibiting symptoms of being on the Autistic spectrum himself. Not seeing things from her point of view and being very self centred and inflexible all sound alarm bells.

Does anyone else think this might be the case? Or am I seeing 2 + 2 and making 5?

I dunno Fleur, my H was just abusive not autistic, and he was v. like what Vixen is describing.

Next time you have this argument send him a text saying: f**k off!

FleurDelacour - I must admit I have sometimes wondered this myself, especially since it has recently come to light that there is a history of severe Autism in his family. However, our DS has far more tangiable traits of Autism and it's proving a nightmare to get him diagnosed as he doesn't fit with the triad of impairments required for diagnosis. Neither does DH. I don't doubt that some of his behaviour sounds Autistic like but one Autistic trait isn't enough to be diagnosed as such. I'm open to hearing others' opinions on that though...

vixen, I'd said before, I had very similar circumstances for me with ds and xh. I decided that H probably had some AS traits, but ultimately the issue was that he was incredibly selfish, and controlling as a person. He could never see anything from anyone else's perspective at all, but actively chose not to try.

You do have choices here - you don't need to stay in an unfulfilling relationship for anyone. In the end I felt it was more important that I model a healthy relationship to the dc's. They see me do that with DP, and are unbelievably accepting of the situation. As long as they are surrounded by people who love them, and are happy, they are happy. It really is that simple, and believe me, I agonised about it all too.

Thatsnotmyfruitshoot - Thank you for that, it's a really good point about modelling a healthy relationship for the boys.

Sorry for bothering you all again... can I ask a question to help me gain some perspective?

I know that being in possession of a penis doesn't excuse bad behaviour (as so eloquently put by another MNer )but I do think that there are some general differences between the way men and women tend to communicate and express themselves.

Do most men show a level of compassion that is visible to their wife? The type of thing I'm thinking of is stroking their hair when they sad or ill, really looking after them post operatively and generally feeling sorry/bad for them if they are in an awkward/difficult situation?

I've never had the sense that DH has ever truly wanted to take my pain away if I'm feeling bad or embarrassed, not in the same way I would if the roles were reversed.

Don't get me wrong, he's quite affectionate but I always feel that it's out of his own need, not mine.

Specifically I've had two surgeries since we've been together. On the first ocsasion (pre children) he left me the next day to go to work. I could barely get up off the sofa and my sister had to take time off work to come and look after me. On the second occasion he left me 48 hrs after surgery, with two toddlers to look after so he could go on a boys weekend. I'm stupid for letting him go, I know, but he would have sulked the entire time and all I wanted was for him to want to stay and look after me.

I have a vision of coming out of surgery to have my husband there who strokes my hair and asks in a concerned way if I'm ok. Then goes out of his way to do things for me when we're home, all the while seeming to be GENUINELY concerned for how I'm feeling.

If I cry he usually just sits next to me and puts a hand on my shoulder. He always asks me if I want to be hugged but it always seems like a learned response out of obligation rather than an instinctive need to protect me.

Am I living in a bit of a fantasy world? I'm quite sensitive to how others are feeling and have a strong maternal instinct... surely I'm expecting a bit much for him to be the same...

Thanks again x

Honestly Vixen1, men and women aren't that different after all. It's all about whether a person has compassion for another - and a level of selflessness too. If I've ever been ill, my H would rather have the pain himself and he goes out of his way to look after me and care for me. He hates seeing me in pain. He wouldn't dream of taking himself off anywhere if I was even minorly incapacitated, let alone having had surgery. As I would (and have been) with him.

Don't ever trade with yourself that this is a gender issue; it really isn't. Aim high.

After splitting from X#2, I was convinced he has Asperger's. He ticks all the boxes. However, I've gone on to meet many Aspies who make the effort to be caring & considerate. He didn't, except when it suited him. I've also learned a great deal more about abusive personalities and their various causes. New genetic science and neuropsychology are throwing up discoveries every day now. Asperger's and Narcissistic Personality Disorder, for example, share certain neural abnormalities; they certainly look very similar when you're living with them.

Apart from saying your H sounds like a prize prat, Vixen (sorry) - I wouldn't like it if a friend of mine were married to him - I'm not about to diagnose him for you. BUT I would offer a warning against the urge to "fix" another person. That's not what marriages are for. You can waste a lifetime trying. I hope you'll carry on talking to your excellent respondents here. How does your H compare to the points on this page or this one?