Is DH an emotional abuser?

[TheRedSalamander]

I need to get some perspective here. Have been mulling things over for a while and I would really welcome MN opinion on this.

I have read some of the links that IseeGraceAhead has posted on the NPD/Abusive partner recovery thread and DH's behaviour does tick a number of the boxes. What I need to understand is how serious it is. For example if he is just a 1/10 on the scale then maybe yes he's a bit unkind but not something I should be putting in the same sentence as emotional abuse. Part of the reason I'm asking is that I really want to talk to him about how I'm feeling (although I am finding this very difficult as he doesn't want to hear what I have to say about "us") and being able to put this all into some kind of context would help my muddled brain.

He will say I'm being weird and odd for raising such an issue, and although I know that this is one of the things that should start alarm bells ringing, there is the possibility that I am just being a bit odd and am over-reacting. Having a few folks to help me get some perspective would really help. Can someone ask a few questions of me that I can answer that might help me work it all out please?

Red, yes, I think he probably is, and should it then matter whether it's mild or severe? Either way, you shouldn't have to tolerate any degree of unkindness from your partner, especially if he's unwilling to accept that there is an issue, never mind work to fix it.

Have just posted on your other thread. Have you got the Lundy Bancroft book btw??

Hmmm. You may be weird and odd but you are HIS weird and odd so I am afraid it starts major alarm bells ringing to hear that you think he would react in that way to any request by you to try to talk about what is troubling you.

If something is upsetting you then he should want to talk it through and help you and him to understand better and live a happy life together.

I am not in a relationship but I had naively thought that was the whole point of them; they made you more than the sum of your two parts, iyswim, you lived a better, happier life because you lived it with your best friend who only wanted good things for you.

So if he won't patiently and calmly and with love sit down with you and discuss things, then I think that is a very worrying sign. I don't know if it needs to be labelled 'emotional abuse' but it is an illustration of a relationship which, in my view, is not particularly healthy at the moment.

Fruitshoot yes I just posted on the other thread! Cross posted, sorry, should limit my conversations to just one place :)

Spero, this is it exactly. In another thread I've said that I love him because of his quirks and individual habits, but I think that mine are just a reason he finds not to be nice to me. But if I can just get him to sit down and agree to try and change things with me without there being a price to pay then it might work. I just don't think he realises that his behaviour isn't on. Although I've tried to tell him (he just won't talk to me about anything where he might need to take responsibility)

I think this is where labels can be unhelpful.

All you need to know is whether his behaviour/attitude are upsetting for you.

If youa re unhappy, you're unhapy.

Well yes they are upsetting me - but I don't know whether this is normal relationship stuff and, being a fairly emotive sort, I'm just over-reacting and should just suck it up and get on with it, or whether it's him who is being unreasonable. Does that make sense?

You are trying to be too logical here - a symptom of putting up with lots of EA ime.

You seem to think that there is a right or wrong answer and that you should move forward based on that.
I suspect this is because your H brow-beats you into submission with 'logical' arguments.
'You have no reason to be upset because of XYZ reason'. You are 'over-sensitive', can't take a joke, have no sense of humour etc.

Actually all you need to think about is how you feel, and if you want to feel like this long-term or if you want to feel differently.

Reasonableness or unreasonableness doesn't come into it. If you are distressed, you are distressed - not over-sensitive.

I don't think anybody can ask you questions, because there are so many different types of abuse. For example (I'll leave physical abuse out for now) one abusive husband might make it very difficult for his wife to go out and slowly erode away all of her friendships to the point that she is only "allowed" to see people he deems suitable. But the same man may be very generous and giving, does a lot around the house, etc. Whereas another abusive husband may expect his wife to be the "perfect housewife" and have his dinner ready when he gets home, he may control the money in the household, or criticise anything she buys so that she eventually doesn't buy anything he doesn't approve of, but gives her free reign to go out and socialise, never puts limits on her friendships etc.

Both relationships are abusive but they are the opposite of each other. It's not easy to say "Does he do X, Y, and Z?" because just "not doing Z" is not enough to say oh, that's okay then, he isn't abusive.

In general anything which makes you feel trapped at all or question yourself over something everyday is probably abusive. It's just hard to know in that situation what is everyday and what is a reasonable thing for him to object to.

This list is possibly a good starting point. Does he do any of these things? If you go through and make a note of which ones he does that might give you an insight. Don't focus on what he doesn't do from the list - that's not really relevant, no mater how much you want to hang on to the notion that he's good because he doesn't do X, Y or Z.

I think it's important to remember as well that although the title of "emotional abuser" can be horrifying and feel detached from your husband, who you do (or did) love, abusers are still people, just people who do abusive things. It doesn't mean that you can forgive or overlook those abusive behaviours, so don't forget that - the abuse is going to stay. You can't get the "nice" person back, no matter how often they appear.

Although he's logical, I don't think he uses arguments at all. It's his obvious disapproval of stuff, a look or just a sniff, maintaining that he is not angry when he quite obviously is, the basic lack of tenderness that I really really want and miss :(

But if I say that I am upset by these things he will just say "I looked at you the wrong way? Can you hear yourself? You are really quite strange" and then I will apologise for being too sensitive and paranoid.

Oh and if you do think he is abusive, often it's unhelpful to go into a conversation with the abusive person and state that you feel they are being abusive, because most abusive people will turn that around onto you and accuse you of being paranoid, making stuff up, listening to the wrong people (who all hate him) etc.

If you genuinely think he doesn't know what he's doing then you state ONCE what it is that he is doing and how that makes you feel, you give him ONE chance to sort it out. Because really, if he is genuinely just being dense over this, then he'll be shocked to hear that you are so unhappy and want to sort it out straight away. If he doesn't, then that tells you a lot about how important he considers your feelings to be.

xposted sorry :)

(interesting that we both used the word "paranoid")

Bertie I've said to him in the past that it feels that he actually dislikes me- because if he did care about me then why wouldn't he be doing everything he could to help me be happier? I recognise that I've got a responsibility for my own happiness but at the same time we are supposed to be a team. Ha. On Monday he'd been at the Ryder cup all day, hadn't realised that I was at home with a tummy bug (started after he left) and when I was feeling a bit miserable and out of sorts later and asked him to be a bit kinder to me please (in a jokey way) he got really cross and told me that he's had a really nice day and didn't want it ruined by me wanting a row. I didn't want a row I just wanted him to treat me as if he actually cared about how I felt.

But on the flip side of this, he brought me a cup of tea in bed about 1/2 an hour later and in his language this means "business as usual I'm not going to carry on being grumpy" - wouldn't expect a sorry mind you that is not in his vocab!

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

He is horrible to you. He is. You deserve better.

I've read so many threads about abusive partners on MN. I actually can't think of anything else to say; except HE IS HORRIBLE TO YOU.

Have you tried giving him a taste of his own medicine? Saying what he's said to you (some time recently), in the same tone of voice he uses. Maybe it would help the penny drop to receive what he gives. I know it could create a horrible atmosphere for a few days, but might make a point too.

O dear. That is fundamentally why I left my ex. I told him that I felt that he didn't like me. He treated me like someone he found irritating, he wasn't kind, he wouldn't talk to me.

His response was - I bring you breakfast in bed, I don't hit you and I don't have affairs what do you want? OR 'you need therapy, you are upset because there is something wrong with YOU'.

er, no. I was 'upset' because the person I thought loved me treated me for the most part like I was stupid, boring and irritating.

Maybe I was to him. But I am not to others. And I deserve to be with someone who, if I am upset, will want to comfort me, not make it my fault.

I am afraid your situation doesn't sound good. If he won't engage and discuss it with you, genuinely concerned about trying to find a way of living that works for both of you, at least most of the time, how are you going to fix it? Presumably if he can't or won't talk to you, he won't go to counselling?

Not that counselling worked for me; it was inevitably doomed as my ex genuinely didn't think he was doing anything wrong, I was the one with the 'problem'.

Both of us probably needed to think again about our approach to each other and our life together. However, while I was willing to try to put together a way foward, he wasn't. So we broke up and it was a much, much better decision than living another five years being quite miserable most of the time. That is no way to live.

Does it really matter whether he's abusive or not?

If he makes you feel bad about yourself, puts you down or just doesn't listen to you then the relationship is in trouble. He might think his behaviour is perfectly reasonable (and others might feel the same way) but to you he seems unkind and unfeeling and you are unhappy. That's all that matters.

You never know, he might get on really great with another woman who acts the same way as he does. But that's not you. Either something has to change (which is unlikely given that he doesn't even want to talk about it) or you need to consider whether it might be best for you to move on.

Personally I see absolutely no point in staying with someone who makes you miserable. It is possible to find someone who cherishes you, makes you feel great, listens to you and who you look forward to seeing. And you deserve that.

Hi Red

My take on this is that when you have been with someone a long time you often know what they are thinking and can read them before they have said anything out loud.

If you object to something which has been an unspoken thought you sound like a loony.

I found this happened a lot with my Ex when we were arguing and he made me out to be the abusive one. In fact I was reacting to a look or a sneer on his face by getting upset and angry and defensive. If I challenged him or asked if he was cross he would deny it. He never seemed to enjoy my company and looked as though he detested me while stating how much he loved me out loud.

Very confusing! and ultimately not something I could live with.

Now we have split he is telling people I abused him. But I dont have to try to second guess his mood or jolly him along. And I dont seem to abuse anybody else in the world I am generally pretty chilled and happy so maybe it was him not me?

Your description could be us: "If I challenged him or asked if he was cross he would deny it. He never seemed to enjoy my company and looked as though he detested me"

I am so confused by his behaviour too- for example he makes no bones about the fact that he doesn't like the way I look but still pesters me for sex, to the point that I am so annoyed and frustrated by his unwelcome advances that I just give in- 15 mins is worth avoiding the few hours worth of grumpiness, silence and general bad mood from him that would inevitably follow if I didn?t. I can?t understand why he still wants to sleep with me if he dislikes my body so much. I have said this to him but he just raises his eyebrows in acknowledgement of the fact that I have said it and then carries on with whatever he was doing before.

WAEFMT- how are you coping by being made out to be the abusive one? That must be tough.

mine used to roll his eyes if I was ill

the sex thing would worry me - he likes to put you down and feel bad about yourself but then expects sex?

What are the good about your relationship? Also it makes you feel bad/unhappy then it does - you are looking outside to validate your feelings - I know Ive done that but eventually realised that my own take on things and feelings were valid IYKWIM

if it makes you....

Red, when I got the book, 'the emotionally abusive relationship.' I realised my DP (at the time) was in it. As any normal mature reasonable person would, I brought it up with him in a sensitive, kind way. Of course ever since that day I have been emotionally abusive to him and treating him like an emotional punchbag.... he's now my X by the way.
It really is hard to talk to an abusive person about anything that they have done, as they will always twist it (normally in the most bizarre ways) to be your fault, to avoid them having to take responsibility.

if he's constantly telling you your strange, or anything negitive about you, and your starting to wonder whether its true, then that is a big clue to EA

Sincity it's so bloody annoying isn't it. Yes I'm TRYING to be ill just to incovenience you, I wanted to irritate you a little bit more, I felt like seeing how much further down your list of priorities I can get (way below his cars, golf, running, ebay buying/selling, earning money,replying to texts from his friends).

I am trying to think about the good things in our relationship and it is scaring me a bit because I have come up with two;

We laugh at the same things
We have similar parenting values

And that isn't enough is it :(

Freedom how did you manage to stay on the right course with him telling you all that? That is one thing that I worry about, that if I did decide "that's it, we're through" he would be able to persuade me otherwise by convincing me that I am being unreasonable. How did you keep sight of what was real?

RedSalamander you don't need a fantastic, air-tight reason to leave a relationship. If you're not happy then that's enough. He can't convince you you're not unhappy because you are and you know it.

I am quite shocked at what you said about sex - he tells you he dislikes your body (a really horrible nasty thing to do) and then pesters you to sleep with him? And you give in? That's a terrible situation the be in :(

Your partner should be your friend, someone who has your back and supports you. He should never put you down or comment negatively on how you look. Above all he should respect your point of view and listen to you when you want to talk about your relationship.