Calling all prostitutes and former prostitutes on MN, as there seem to be a few around right now...

[Aitch]

I'm curious to know how it makes you feel to see threads on here from wives and girlfriends etc when they discover that their husbands etc have been visiting prostitutes? even if you are happy in your own jobs (and i hope to god you are somehow, because the alternative is intolerable), how does it feel to be confronted with the downside of your work on these pages?

(i think it goes without saying that the men are culpable in this scenario, but am looking for some insight into how your work squares with sisterhood etc).

Again with the WG as altruist idea, this time dressed as 'men need/ want sex'? The customers are going to, what, curl up and die if they don't get some?

And what about women? Where are the women going to go if sex is a need/ want on a par with breathing or eating or whatever and they have a H who can't be bothered or has some sort of health problem?

Or was Maslow just talking about men?

i dont think attacking manda or watchingrain for what they do for a living or the moralties of it is helping the discussion to be honest. Alot of the posts on here directed at these 2 women are tantamount to bullying.

What they do is a job. They are honest and up front about what it which is more than can be said for alot of girls out there who go out with a guy and only sleep with a guy if he has wined and dined them before hand. Suggesting that Manda doesnt know who fathered her children or that there is some doubt about it is just nasty. The poster who posted that is just sad in my opinion and a bully. Catch yourself on.

It was nasty, just nasty and no need for it. Manda, ur job is ur business the fact that you come on here to try and give us all a point of view on it is generous and im sorry that you have been treated this way.

deb

deb

Math they won't curl up and die if they don't get some but they probably won't stop trying to get some, given that sex is a primal instinct.

Which is why, whatever legal (or moral) restrictions one might put on the sex trade, it will simply adapt to current circumstance and endure.

Btw this is unconnected with any notion of altruism, which is crap anyway, WGs don't act out of 'altruism' they do it as a job or work.

Interesting thread. Thanks manda and watching of sharing. For those judging and critising... is prostitution the only job/career where we are going to try to make people accountable for the impact they have on other peoples marriages.

Or do we start on the bars/waiters selling alcohol to husbands who will go and take it out on the family, betting shops or creditors enabling untold financial devastation on families .. where shall we stop ? Or shall we just stick to to attacking the typically 'female' profession of prostitution and let the other stuff go?

If we work we sell some aspect of ourselves... it is just that apparently some aspects of our bodies are more apparently more appropriate to sell than others.

I sell use of my brain. Every time I do a contract, I sign a contract saying that all my own thoughts I have with regard to this piece of work are the property of the client, I promise not to use them again ...is that ok because it is a typically 'male' job?

... and that women selling sex is seen as potentially degrading and abusive - does that not say more about the patriarchal society we live in itself - not the actual act of selling sex.

god, yeah, if i was the bartender who sold booze to the guy who went home to beat up his wife i would feel awful, likewise if i worked in the bookies and saw people ruining their families' lives because of their addiction to gambling. i don't think that's a mental leap at all. we all have consciences, surely?

and i think manda and watching have had some tough questions here, certainly, and the one about her children's parentage was downright rude, but we are here talking about prostitution, not cuddly toys. it's very difficult not to be rude, tbh, when we can SEE young girls on our streets being damaged by men fucking them for money and yet you get pro-sex industry people saying 'but i'm alright, jack, don't question this.' they are saying 'we know how it is and you don't' and it is actually very hard to challenge that without seeming rude, despite the fact that what they are doing in fact damages us all.

i'm with jenny60, personally, i think the fact that men think they have an inalienable right to rent a live vagina is damaging to all women and encourages them to see us all as pieces of meat. therefore i think what manda and watching do by servicing that 'right', especially when they are not lower down the food chain of the prostitution industry, is a problem for all women.

WHY can't men just be pleasant enough to women to make us want to sleep with them? what would the problem be there? we've heard a lot about shy men, and disabled men... are none of us married to shy or disabled men? neither of these things is a barrier to getting laid if the person is actually PLEASANT. that a person would pay for a GFE because he is too lazy to cultivate a friendship with a girl is really depressing, tbh.

and tremendoussleazebag, you should divorce your wife if she won't sleep with you and you cannot tolerate that. you should be happy with someone else and leave the way clear so that maybe the poor woman could meet a man she would want to sleep with. there's no need for a single man to be faithful, so be single. and then get a real girlfriend and experience that.

MN has it all

I have been reading this thread with interest, and am impressed at the answers that the WGs have been openly providing, but for my tuppence worth I am utterly shocked at some of the appalling attacks towards them. They are still people, humans, sisters, and do not deserve to be villified for what they do whether we agree with it morally or not. Certainly they as individuals are not to blame for infidelity of individual posters husbands/ex-partners. Prostitution is not going to go away, and no one as a feminist can possibly feel it is liberally minded to attack women in this way and put them into such narrow stereotypes.

As I said I am personally not 'for' prostitution, however some of the vile posts by people have made me very sympathetic towards WGs.

As another poster said, is there a difference between what the WGs do and meeting someone in a club/pub/dating service, being bought food/drink, and having a one night stand. No one could state that 'love' was involved, and in a sense is this not a transaction in the sense that a trade has been made (food/drink/promise of a future?). Would you as the woman involved in this 'transaction' know that the man was single/available. Would you care at that particular time, honestly, as you can not claim to 'love' him. Or what about affairs, in a sense as they not a similar transaction. Could you not claim that sex generally is all about trading?

Anyway, she who is without sin should cast the first stone.

honestly, no, i think that's utter bollocks. sex is all about trading. no, sex is about MUTUAL attraction and desire, regardless of whether it is a one-night stand or not.

and i think it's a little patronising to be so impressed by the fact that watching and manda are articulate and measured, personally. why shouldn't they be able to handle themselves on here, they're MNers. just because they get their kecks off for cash doesn't render them idiots who can't debate the moral and otherwise aspects of their trade. that's why this has been a good thread, imo.

Where did I say that I thought they were articulate? I didn't particularly feel that was the case. I was impressed that they were relatively polite in their answers to statements and questions that were quite rude. And if they had been nurses would posters have been horrid?

the two jobs are hardly synonymous. lol.

apols, i thought when you said you were impressed by their answers you meant they are articulate. i have certainly found them very articulate. it's just that i disagree with the premise that what they do for a living is no-one's business but theirs.

I would agree, what they do is society's business, of course it is. But I guess as the "oldest profession" it has been one that has not exactly had easy solutions. My only gripe was that these people are exactly that people, and not personally to be crucified for an individual poster's marital breakdown, or morality issues.

why is it anyones business but theres Aitch? its quite simple, if the guys dont want to use their services they dont, they dont force anyone to visit them. If someone does it is their moral decision and ergo the impact that decision has on them/their families.

No one has any right to be anyone elses moral watchdog. Honestly there must be alot of saints on here for the amount of judgement being tendered.

Im disgusted at some of the threads I have read here directed towards these 2 women. If their are posters on here who are going to attack verbally anyone who is different, ie questioning the parentage of manda's children then why would anyone, especially anyone perceived as alternative, bother to post.

I thought this forum was a supportive one not bullying and judging. Im saddened by it a bit to be honest.

deb

sorry should have read theirs

its a bit early for me

but what rubbish, though, that no-one has any right to be anyone's moral watchdog... that's the social contract right there.

if you are saddened, debs, be saddened, if you choose to ignore the fact that LOADS of people stuck up for manda and watching when they were being insulted, just so that you can take offence and post that you are disappointed in MN, that's fine. there are plenty of other websites where a subject like this just wouldn't come up at all.

i actually think the discussion has been rather more interesting and nuanced than either of you are making out, and i am very grateful for MNers watching and manda and all the other prostitutes and former prostitutes for posting their thoughts as to their feelings when they see the devastation that men's infidelity with prostitutes cause. not one of them, afaia, said that their consciences went un-pricked. i think that's perfectly human and decent, i just wish that they extended that feeling to their consciousness as to what selling oneself to men does for us all.

Aitch, what gives you the right or anyone the right to judge someone? What do you think you are? Are you so confident in yourself that you think that you or anyone who can possibly tell them they are wrong. Im astonished at what Im reading here. What social contract can possibly excuse the attacks of of some posters that go on against people in their line of business.

Its the MAN Aitch who is at fault - it is the MAN who decides to visit them.

As women they are entitled to do what they please with their bodies and I feel that you telling them that doing so damages all of us is rubbish. Im a woman and you do not speak for me.

deb

and yet you are now making this personal to me...

i am never much convinced by the 'what gives you the right to judge' line, tbh, it's a bit knee-jerk. what does judge mean in this sense?
would it be okay if i judged (as you do) and found it all fine? so it's really just me disagreeing with you that you object to? fine, cool, let's discuss that.

Im answering you personally as you wrote to me personally. What bothers me is the general consensus that what they do damages all of us. I dont like to be grouped. What I do impacts me - what my husband does impacts me and vice versa. Manda or anyone else in her line of business would not be at fault if my husband used their services. that would be him. Why should they be castigated and made out to damage women generally? Its offensive to me as a woman

i have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me, if I did I wouldnt post here, I would find a mirror and stand in front of it talking.

deb

men are responsible for using prostitutes, i believe if you have actually read the thread you would not be trotting that out again, it's been repeated by me at least five times.

that prostitutes rent the use of their bodies is responsible for men thinking that it's okay for them to rent the use of a prostitute's body. if it wasn't explicitly for sale, it wouldn't be bought.

obviously when we speak on here, we do so under our own names, so any opinions expressed are our own unless otherwise stated. it would be a real pain if we all had to sign our names to every statement we make. so yes, i think that men thinking it's okay to buy women has a knock-on effect on the way that they treat other women. i'm surprised that you don't think it would impact on other areas of their lives, tbh.

i have read the thread, intricately as it happens.

What anyone does with their body is their own business. Your line about not being convinced on the what gives you the right to judge line is puzzling. Its a relevant point. What gives you the right to judge what any person woman or man does with their body. If it is impacting you personally, ie your husband has been sleeping with a prostitute for instance then fine.

So am I to understand that if my husband used prostitutes before he met me that in turn he has less respect for me or any other woman.

I dont see the male/female separation to be honest. People are people and should be respected as individuals. Blanket statements like "what you are doing with your body is effecting how men treat me" or however it is phrased is misleading and frankly bollocks! sorry but it is.

deburca it's really obvious you haven't read the thread

*Math they won't curl up and die if they don't get some but they probably won't stop trying to get some, given that sex is a primal instinct."

The flaw in your argument is that sex is also a primal instinct for women. This means that "sex" happens when two people mutually desire one another. That is a primal drive. A person having sex because someone has paid them is not a primal instinct.
Rape isn't "sex", it's rape
I don'T know what prostitution is.

how so?

I'm closet to the prostitute's view on this than I would have expected.

I think a a woman who sleeps with a married man ought to be ashamed of herself.

I don't really expect women who rent out their vaginas to be choosy about who gets to use them. It's a financial transaction, not a human relationship.

A married man who uses prostitutes is a scumbag just the same as a single man who uses them is a scumbag.

Paying women to let you fuck them is horrible, but it's not horrible because you might be cheating on someone, it's horrible because of what it shows about your attitude to physical intimacy and women's bodies.

If I found out my DH had ever used a prostitute (including a lapdancer) I would not be jealous, I would be disgusted. I would never let him touch me again, our marriage would be over.

It's no more a form of infidelity than it would be if he raped another woman. It's not sex, just ugliness.

aitch, you mention that disabled men should just try being nice to women and that will solve their lack of sex. I'm truly not sure where to start discussing this.

OK, what of someone who is profoundly on the autism spectrum and therefore has no social skills with which to be 'nice', any more than a blind person can just decide to paint someone a copy of the Mona Lisa to impress them.

Some disabled people do not get any chance whatsoever to show how nice they are, because the disability and its characteristics is what people see and experience, and it puts them completely off.

I'm not saying that paid-for sex is an answer, necessarily, but neither is it fair for anyone to say or suggest that disabled men have caused their own problem by not being nice enough.

Amber, some people on here are implying that the only way disabled men can get sex is by paying for it. Which is insulting and untrue.

exactly, skidoodly. Where does the idea of jealousy come into it