Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

WWIFN will you come and talk to me please?

92 replies

howdiditcometothis · 17/09/2010 20:33

OK - I recognise that you probably despise someone like me. There is a back story on here but I won't bore you with the full details except to say I have had an emotional affair. I'm trying hard to get to the other side of it and fix things. I am interested in your view that the problem is with the person who had the affair. I know it isn't my DH and it is me that is the problem. But I don't know how to fix myself. I'm such a fuck up, I don't know where to start. I want to fix things.

I read all these threads for clues. I've never done anything immoral before - people would be so shocked and disgusted by my betrayal.

How do I flush out the problems? How can I make it up to him and make it right?

OP posts:
howdiditcometothis · 21/09/2010 13:55

PP - I'm sorry that you went through that yeterday. When I was little I always thought that adults knew what to do for the best but I now realise that it isn't always clear cut. Everything is shades of grey - that's what makes making important decisions so difficult. But you know that you made a decision thinking that you were doing the right thing by anybody - nobody could ever ask for more than that.

WWIFN - reading your questions and observations made me cry. You are right that in all of that I didn't project any loss of love/of DH. Thinking about it again, that isn' strictly true, I would miss him - we have a shared history and we were once very happy together but the loss of that isn't what comes to mind first if I think about the end of the marriage. Our relationship over the last year or so has been exhausting. We don't seem to be bale to understand one another any longer. We do try to thrash these things out and talk but we just reach an impasse where he doesn't seem able to understand or take on board what I'm saying and vice versa.

You're right about the snap moment.

We have talked about our different values and work ethic - it has been a recurring theme for a number if years. He cannot see my point of view at all and feels he is right. He thinks it is silly that I will run myself into the ground when he would just stop and take time out. And that comes back I guess to responsibility. I don't see how we can bring up DD with such mixed messages. His view is that we will just have to agree to disagree - he won't be swayed. I am not swayed by his arguments either. So I guess after one of these 'discussions' the unresolved issues just fester.

The word that londonartemis uses above 'refuge' - I think that is what the affair became. A spearate bubble away from home where things were so exhausting and wrong. I felt alive and interesting and wanted. I felt tethered to another human being who seemed to understand and was keyed into what I was going through as well as being on my wave length in humour, intellect, values. And I felt that I could communicate with a clear head in that bubble. I somehow justified this by ring fencing it from the rest of my life and convincing myself that this was a deep friendship which had grown and nothing more. In the early days I believed that I could integrate OM into OUR lives and make it 'above board'.

On my days of clarity I could see it for what it was - an inappropriate relationship which threatened my marriage. And yet I engaged in the deceit and continued contact. I have and remain deceitful. I will 'own' that conduct. I do think it cuts across my values and I would probably say that I am not a deceitful person but I obviously am a deceitful person. I have crossed aline that I never ever imagined I would.

I haven't hid the anger or the drinking from DH. The bulimia yes but that is too provate - he has never been aware of that. It s my own personal battle that I fight from time to tiime.

I met OM in a tenuous work context. He was a specialist adviser on ?on a project I was connected to. We were travelling back to the same place and we ended up talking on the train back. It was initially related to work and then we ended up talking about a newspaper article we had both read that morning and had quite a strong reaction to. A few days later an email popped up at work with a link to an article from the Guardian saying in light of what we?d chatted about he thought I?d appreciate it. That was the start of it really. Email exchanges. He sent me an email one evening with his phone number ? which I didn?t see until the next day by which time he?d followed it up saying that he shouldn?t have sent it, inappropriate etc. but that it?s not often that you meet people that share convictions etc with you. Even though reading this back it seems quite strange it didn?t feel like it ? it felt very natural. We just enjoyed quite quick witted exchanges by email and I did instinctively like him and find him warm and enjoyed the communication. I was the one to take his number and use it. I texted him with my number and we ended up chatting. At this point ? we had shared a bit about respective home life being difficult and I suppose that the alarm bells started to ring for me as I recognised that I looked forward to hearing from him too much. I should have stopped there but I didn?t. I think that we both kidded ourselves that there was nothing more in it than a desire to know each other in a platonic sense ? I couldn?t even remember properly what he looked like ? I just liked him. Communication stepped up a gear and he asked me to go for a drink one night after work. I agonised over that but I went. I kept it a secret from everybody so I must have realised it was wrong even though I justified and rationalised it to myself ? that we were just friends helping each other through difficult times. I?d say that meeting was the true beginning of a romantic intent. Although I told him then that we both needed to go home and sort ourselves out, I don?t think I really meant that ? the meeting (which I think in my head of the first time we actually met) seemed to have an intense effect on both parties. Within hours of leaving him there he had told me he felt as though he was in love. In fairness he said that it was completely ridiculous but I felt the same thing. I went away on holiday shortly after and thought that would be sufficient to take me out of our routine, see sense and put a stop to it. He contacted me every day and I?m ashamed that I looked forward to hearing from him. When I got back we met within days. So there was a gradual progression I suppose. The further few meetings were more spontaneous. I always said no more and it had to stop and the times it happened were after bad days away from the office working elsewhere and too late to get back for bedtime routine and I?d completely break my resolve and suggest getting together.

OP posts:
londonartemis · 21/09/2010 14:48

howdi - I completely understand this.... the rapport, the friendship, the attraction, the need. I have had it too over the last year and sometimes it has just felt even more than a refuge - like a life support machine.

purplepeony · 21/09/2010 14:50

Howdi- thanks for your thoughts.
I can 100% echo what you have said about how I felt to. With OM2 , our first converation lasted 3 hours- we had been ships in the night many moons ago, never really talking, so that was the 1st chat we ever had, after maybe 6 weeks of emailing and getting to know each other. I think it is quite rare to have a 3hr conversation with an almost-stranger. He emailed me the next day to say he had enjoyed it so much, we had a true connection, and could he call again in a week or so. It went from there, and he added in a sexual element over time. I told him not to and back off, and he did for a bit, then it began again. Ultimately he pulled away from me as he wanted his marriage to work,said we could still be friends but hasn't made much effort, but at the same time acknowledged that his wife who had left him to live overseas might never be back. I cared more than he did- it still hurts- and I knew at one stage that if he had snapped his fingers, I was really hoping or more.

I envy people who are so happy and secure in heri marriages that they never experience anything like this- We aren't wicked women- we are just human.

purplepeony · 21/09/2010 15:13

These were 3 hr phone chats- not in person. we met 3 times, for dinner when we wer e both in the same place at the same time, and each time one of us pulled back from going further due to conscience. It was dreadful as I have never been so physically attracted to any man, ever.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 21/09/2010 15:48

Okay, keep going Howdi. These are the questions that are outstanding:

Tell me what prevented you from sitting down with your H and telling him that you were concerned about the feelings you were having, before it got to crisis point.

Tell me also about what was happening to your feelings for your H as your feelings for the OM grew?

Then tell me about what you told your DH about the OM, the reasons you gave at the time for this happening, your feelings for your H and the OM.

I appreciate too, how painful this must be for you - and for others posting on this thread. But at some point, we need to explore the effect all this is having on your H, Howdi. It is important that he has a voice and that we consider things from his perspective; a perspective that might be entirely different to yours.

Worthy of note too, is that you were already harbouring secrets in your marriage - your bulimia. A barrier to secrecy had already been broken.

Lemonylemon · 21/09/2010 16:05

"I envy people who are so happy and secure in heri marriages that they never experience anything like this- We aren't wicked women- we are just human."

That's such a sad thing to say.....

I remember that when I was married many moons ago, that I was so lonely and sad that I tried so hard to have an affair. It was wrong, I know. I tried and tried to talk to my exH. We went to one Relate meeting and he said "she's the one with the problem. She needs to sort it out". That was the end of my marriage. I could not stay with someone who was so emotionally detached from the situation.

That had been my problem for most of my life - getting entangled with men who were emotionally available. I did it time and time again. And I know why I did it. After a lot of soul searching, reading certain books, reading articles, studying websites that are so often posted on this board, I finally twigged. I did eventually meet a man who was emotionally available. Who had the same values as I did. The same work ethic. Who wanted the same things out of a relationship as I did - and didn't just pay lip service to it.

OP: Yes, affairs within a marriage are wrong. The brakes were put on your "affair" before it became a physical one.

I'm not as erudite as WWIFN or PP, but I'd like to say that the "affair" would appear to be a symptom of the state of affairs within your marriage.

I'm not a counsellor/qualified by a long shot (just been around for a long time) but maybe going further back - way back - before your marriage. What about your childhood? A high achiever. To win approbation/love/approval of your parents? Did you ever feel that you had this? High achievers and people who take on a lot of responsibility sometimes tend to be people who are still striving for that approval in some way.

Catholic guilt is something that's been handed down to us over the generations. I was brought up in a family where guilt has been used as a cosh in order to control....

I hope that you do start to find a way through your pain.

howdiditcometothis · 21/09/2010 22:49

Just lost a long post. Arggh.

WWIFN

I didn't tell DH until crisis point you're right. This was a result of us no loger communicating in any meaningful way at the time of the outset of the affair. I had already withdrawn because it just seemed to me that we hurt each other immeasurably each time we tried to communicate. I was also exhausted and would busy myself with work and go to bed without any meaingful conversation other than DD related and keeping the house going at a basic level.

Interestingly though I would always previously have told DH if I'd felt strange about a situation. I have had to back off from a male work colleague who liked to confide in me. DH was totally in the loop on that. He didn't like that this person confided in me and confessed he was worried that this person was getting too close.I agreed it was strange and reset the boundaries. A client came onto me very strongly (more a proposition if anything) and the first thing I did was tell DH.

I guess that as I became involved with OM, I became more distant - although I had withdrawn for a number of months prior to the outset of the communication with OM. At first it felt like OM was my pressure valve - that he was helping me to stay sane and therefore helping things at home. I felt less wound up and stressed because I had this 'light' bit in my life. I convinced myself of that for a while.

I worked myself into a state the night that I had decided to tell DH. I had told OM it was over, I was telling DH and I never wanted to hear from him again which I found very painful. I asked DH to stop what he was doing and come and talk to me. I told him I had met someone that I'd been in regular contact with emails, chatting, I'd met him. I said that I felt I'd ruined our family and thought he would leave me. I became hysterical actually. I didn't tell him that I thought I loved OM - didn't get chance. he wouldn't listen to anything else. I told him I would tell him everything he wanted to know, wouldn't keep anything from him but he didn't ask anything. Gave me a quick hug and went off to fix his bike. He has alluded to the conversation once since then and not in a direct way but there have been more angry outbursts and violent shouting - he has smashed crockery, lamp, thrown stuff round, shoved me (but has never hit me) and called me things I didn't think I'd ever hear him say - c*t, twt, effing bitch etc. I think that he can't speak about it and this is how it comes out - I guess.

OP posts:
gingerwig · 21/09/2010 23:13

Pp do you wish you had left your husband a long time ago And NOT stuck it out?

gingerwig · 21/09/2010 23:14

PP why does your son think that of you ?

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 22/09/2010 01:27

I lost a different long post today Howdi so I sympathise!

Howdi, you say that you were once very happy with your H, but that things deteriorated over the past year or so. Can you timeline this for us i.e. were things really bad within the first year of giving birth, did they deteriorate markedly after going back to work (how old was DD then?). How long ago was that first meeting with the OM?

When projecting the loss of your H, you say that you would miss him and recall your shared history. You also say that you don't seem to be able to understand eachother, but are you thinking of how you are with eachother right now, when he is hurting so badly? Presumably it wasn't this bad, before your affair?

You say you didn't hide your anger and drinking from your H, but you did hide two enormous issues from him; your bulimia and your emotional affair. One of these is still hidden, in fact. Why do you think you didn't want to show your H this side of yourself?

Overall, there is still no sense of your H having been entirely in the picture of how perilous things were.

Tell me, before you met the OM, did you ever tell your H that unless certain things changed in your marriage, you would be looking to end it? If not, why?

The story you tell about your burgeoning relationship with the OM is a familiar one, in affairs of this type. They usually start with delusions that "this is just a friendship that means no harm" but emotional affairs are characterised by three things:

  1. Secrecy (about the existence of and/or the nature of contact/conversations with the OW/OM)
  2. Sexual chemistry
  3. When the OW/OM knows more about the relationship with your spouse, than your spouse knows about the extra-marital relationship.

The moment you confided that there were problems in your respective primary relationships, a huge barrier was traversed. What this signifies to the other is: "I am unhappy at home. I am open to an affair. There is a gap available, for you to fill."

Most people delude themselves that no harm can arise, but as you say, at some level you knew this was a threat, mainly because you were conducting the relationship secretly. A good rule of thumb is "would I be happy for my partner to see/hear every interaction with my friend?" and if the answer is "no", then the risk is there.

From your latest post, it sounds as though OM's very existence was hidden from your H, until your confession. Was that so?

You may have read that in affairs, people are compartmentalisers or not. The compartmentalisers can keep both relationships in separate boxes or "bubbles" and one doesn't intrude on the other. Many people start as compartmentalisers, but then they lose that ability, either because of guilt, stress or deepening feelings for the affair partner. It is pretty evident to me that you are not a compartmentaliser, so what follows next is what tends to happen at home, with the "non-compartmentaliser".

Your H hasn't told you what he was feeling while the affair was ongoing. His story is still hidden. I wonder what his testimony story would be, from the point when you met the OM? Perhaps he noticed your faraway look, your lack of joy in being at home, or even with your DD? He might have been exasperated at your attachment to your phone, especially on that holiday when it was meant to be a time without intrusions.

He might have seen the critical look on your face when you appraised him, perhaps you were finding fault with more things about him? He might have noticed that your sex life had deteriorated even more and that you were "avoiding" opportunities all the time.

When people are in the midst of an exciting affair, especially one that they are deluding themselves about in terms of the risk, they also believe that it will be indetectable at home. Because of the trust default in healthy relationships, a spouse might never suspect an affair, but they almost always start to feel unsettled and unhappy.

At first they might not know why, but then as time goes on, they attribute their unhappiness to their partner's behaviour, which is getting markedly worse; more critical, more blaming and destructive. Very often, the spouse's self-esteem is low and in some cases, they feel as if they are going mad.

From his perspective you see, he might tell a friend that he was feeling crushed by 3 terrible work disappointments; the unscrupulous employers who used FTCs instead of giving full employment protection to their staff, the bad luck of redundancy in a credit-blighted firm, the lack of confidence all this engendered and the anxiety that was taken into the next job, where it became a self-fulfilling prophesy to under-perform.

And then, when he was at rock bottom, his wife had an affair.

It sounds awful when you put it like that, doesn't it? I'm not writing it to guilt-trip you either - but at the moment, you know he is angry and lashing out, as a wounded animal does when it is in pain. The perspective I have offered demonstrates that there is a different story of the affair, from all sides of the triangle.

You and I might agree that the perspective I have outlined would be delusional, because it seems that your H contributed to his work failures, but he might be clinging on to an injustice story, like a life-raft at the moment.

Many unfaithful partners look on in astonishment when the true horror of the effects of their behaviour is told by the betrayed spouse. While in the "bubble" of the affair, they were oblivious to their partner's pain and bewilderment, mainly because affairs cause people to lose empathy for their spouse - their pain/upset doesn't move them as once it did.

After discovery or confession too, the effects are enormous, because a betrayed partner must contend with a period in their life when all was not as it seemed. Some unfaithful partners cannot cope with the guilt or hurt, so they re-write history and claim dissatisfaction in the marriage where none existed, or exaggerate minor grievances.

Some partners lie about the affair details - directly or by omission and omit disclosing continud contact with the affair partner. You perhaps said that you hadn't slept with the OM, but neglected to say that this was because the OM put the brakes on, not you. You didn't convey the depth of your feelings for the OM, either.

What every betrayed partner will tell you too is that however understandable infidelity might be, however true the justifications about unhappiness were, the deceit and lies are the hardest thing to cope with - far worse than the infidelity itself.

When someone is forced to confront that for a time, their partner was lying and deceiving, it messes with their mind in varying degrees. How could I have not have noticed? When I thought my partner was stressed with work and was sympathetic, in reality she was feeling happy because of her affair! When I was left looking after DD because Howdi was working late, she was meeting him....and so it goes on. Gradually, the betrayed partner (if they have the energy) must reconstruct the preceding months, based on this new information.

It can cause people to doubt their grip on reality in every other area too. "If I didn't know about her affair, was that why I didn't recognise the signs that they were going to make me redundant at work? Am I someone who is oblivious to other things in life? How did I not know?"

Now no decent person in their right mind would want to inflict all this on another human being, least of all someone they are meant to love, but this is the stark truth about infidelity. Yet it is often minimised and bargained away as "not being a crime", or "it happens, we are all fallible."

Until someone has faced up to the story of the betrayed partner and seen their pain, this minimising often continues, especially by those who've kept their infidelity hidden from their spouse, on the basis that what isn't known, cannot hurt. In such situations though, only the unfaithful partner made any active choices and denied those of their spouse.

Your H's reaction to your confession must be confusing and terrifying. He is not telling you how he feels, but he is demonstrating huge anger. He has asked you no questions and strangely, it seems as though you aren't trying to persuade him to talk about this. Maybe that's because you fear more anger, but are there any other reasons for this?

As yet, because of your H's reluctance to discuss this, which is perversely a form of control, you haven't yet heard his story. The hurt isn't as real when you haven't seen your spouse cry.

I don't under-estimate how you will recoil at these words Howdi and I imagine that this is precisely why you have avoided my earlier threads in the past, but part of getting through this and becoming the sort of person who would never be unfaithful again, is to acknowledge the story of the betrayed partner and facing up to the horror and destruction infidelity causes.

Have a think about some of the questions I've posed tonight and get back when you are able. I think next, it would be helpful to consider the perspective of the OM and his role in events. For a long time, he has been a shadow in your marriage and you have been grieving his loss.

I admire your bravery and your willingness to face some deeply uncomfortable realisations Howdi. It goes back to where we came in - an affair doesn't make someone a bad person, as long as the person learns from the experience and doesn't minimise the ripple effect of infidelity.

howdiditcometothis · 22/09/2010 07:23

I read this in the night and again this morning. Not ready to comment yet and in meetings all day today so please don't take my silence to mean I'm not listening. I am.

OP posts:
purplepeony · 22/09/2010 13:10

Gingerwig- sorry Howdi for this mini-hijack.
I don't know is the short answer to both questions. My son has lots of unusual traits- he is extremely bright ( classed as gifted)but also has slight ADHD/dyspraxia. As a child he was a handful and we clashed a lot- constant battles of wills.

Left DH? Not sure. I got and still do get a lot from our relationship- at the time I see I craved security and stability after several long term relationships went down the pan. I think a big part of me convinced myself it would work, and that he was what I wanted, but I knew deep down that things were missing. I love him but those things are still missing and I don't feel emotionally close to him on one level. TBH it was always the wrong time to leave- my son was difficult, then they had GCSEs, then A levels, then uni finals...on and on....
I put them first. Also, my DH really loves me and when the other person is 100% commmitted it makes it very hard to walk away and hurt 3 other people. I know he is not "the one" if such a person exists, which I know they don't, but he is def. not my soul mate. We rub along, and he is very easy company, but he does not get inside my head the way other men have.

Howdi I do empathise, especially about your DD.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 22/09/2010 13:16

PurplePeony sorry to continue the hijack, but do you want questions or observations about the things you have posted?

purplepeony · 22/09/2010 13:39

WWIFN- actually, no. I have got it pretty much sorted in my own heaad, but I didn't want another poster to think I was ignoring her.
So, if it was an offer, no, thanks. I did have some counselling last year over this and at the moment am thinking over it all re. future.

purplepeony · 22/09/2010 14:45

WWIFN- before I leave this thread, i am curious how you come to be posting at 1-2am! I have concluded either you work shifts and are doing this from work, or you are an insomniac, or you live outside the UK!

gingerwig · 22/09/2010 23:18

thanks PP for replying. I really warm to you , through your posts if that does not sound odd!

WWIFN I am absolutely astonished at the amount of time and thought you put into these threads

purplepeony · 23/09/2010 07:02

ginger- thanks that's very sweet.Smile Re comments about WWIFN- me too. I wonder if she is a counsellor or training to be one, or has aspirations to be one?

New posts on this thread. Refresh page