99% certain DH is having an affair

[RBJ72]

I posted on this forum a few months ago about DH not adapting to family life, wanting more excitement, saying he wondered if there was someone better out there blah blah. WE have been married for 6 years and together for 11. DD arried 18 months ago after several failed attempts at IVF. I am now 17 weeks preganant which happened naturally.

Advice from most was that we should get counselling and that if he wasn't already then he was definitely thinking about having an affair. I asked him outright then if he was having an affair and he said no and I believed him. I suggested counselling and looked into finding one in our area but he wasn't keen.

Since then we have both made more of an effort on the relationship. Trying to go out more. He booked a night away for our anniversary and also bought me a lovely necklace but I'm now thinking that this was all because he was feeling guilty.

I am now 99.9% certain he is having an affair with his secretary. How cliched can you get!? I could understand it if she was 25, blond and nubile but she isn't.

I started to suspect a week or so ago when I saw pictures on his camera of a work night out with them with their cheeks together. He went out to a work' colleague's leaving do last night and I knew she would be there with other people from work. He said he owuld be meeting a few of them beforehand for dinner but when I checked his BB this am I saw a text that suggested that he'd met her for dinner on their own. he also sent her emails over the bank holiday (not saying anything incriminating but why email her on a holiday) and I also found one from her saying she'd like them to spend the afternoon together at a gallery followed by the travel lodge! There were also a couple of others which are definitely evidence that they have more than a work relationship but don't categorically say anything explicit.

So what do I do? I haven't confronted him yet. I feel like him sleep walking and that this isn't really happening. I can't be in the same room as him. All I can think about is how can I cope (emotionally and financially) on my own with 2 kids. What I'm not thinking is how can I save my marriage. Should I be for the sake of DD and the next baby? We have been together for so long that I can't get my head around being apart.

Thanks for the update RBJ. I assume you are still living apart?

Sounds like a good session and a good counsellor. Yes, it's as we thought isn't it? There wasn't anything wrong with your marriage, but there's something wrong about him.

You may have got to the bit about attachment styles in relationships and the concept of the monogamist infidel, who can only have one emotional/sexual connection to one woman at a time. That might be your H, but where is the attachment right now, is the question? When someone says they are "confused in general" that is very rarely the whole truth.

I'm glad the counsellor supported your request that this friendship is severed, but I would reiterate that this needs to be followed by by concrete actions, even if it means confiding in his boss. He should be taking every reasonable step to sever the working relationship too, even if that means looking for another role.

I am relieved to see you say that you don't yet know what you want. That is healthy, because at this stage and while he is so conflicted, you cannot know whether you have the ability or even the desire to get past this. Many of us in this position agree to reconciliation and forgiveness too soon - and have to retract later down the line.

You are absolutely right to question his need to be the centre of attention - and how that is going to be severely challenged when the baby arrives, just as it did when your DD came along.

He's got a lot of of growing up to do and in this case, I think it might benefit him hugely if he had some solo counselling with an emotionally intelligent male therapist.

Yes we are still living apart. I was almost thinking about relenting and making him sleep in spare room but I don't see how I can until I hear a concrete commitment to sever the emotional relationship. For example this evening I had to ask him if he was going out after work (Thursday was his usual work night out) and whether OW would be there. I just want him to be proactive and open with this information

The counsellor suggested he confide in his boss but his workplace is not the kind of 'touchy/feely'(his words) emotionally supportive environment. He also says that OW will be looking for another job once she receives her fee for helping recruit someone into the company but this will take a few months. If DH reassured me that he was taking steps to sever the enmotional relationship then I could start to think about our future.

Stand firm RBJ. Stand firm.

So was he going out? And is she going to be there?

The stuff about the company not being "touchy feely" is an excuse. What he means is that he is too embarrassed to admit all this to his boss and is putting his feelings and career, before you again.

yes for a couple of drinks as he needed to wait to meet his step brother as that's who is staying with at the moment. and no aparently she wasn't going to be there.

To be honest I'm not sure what benefit telling his boss would have. He is more likely to look for another job than get a transfer. He did say in the counselling session that he would do that if it came to that.

Hi RBJ,

You sound very together post counselling and I am heartened by your counsellors responses too. Your post/thoughts are admirably succinct and focused.

How are you feeling? Is he surprised by your demeanor? Has he told you OW response to the ending and do you believe it?

I ask as (without outing threads) but I have read the redoubling of efforts by affair partners at this stage and it is sobering stuff. It made me realise severance isn't an optional extra, and I think WWIFN said a couple of posts back, that the RL disclosure is necessary. I am not telling you anything you don't know I'm sure. Just reinforcing that I believe what you think is right.

EVEN NOW -7 months since starting to live together - exP and OW, I have been told, pretend at work that they are not in a relationship. There is the reality/fantasy not-facing-the-real-world thing STILL which I find insidious. I think it serves in his mind to buoy up his ersatz persona in RL - so it remains on record as a marital breakdown not an affair involving the leaving of a pre-schooler and a baby. It is still the entitlement without the responsibility and consequence: nothing learned or faced up to. Beggars belief. Again I bring it up just to help flesh out your resolve.

WWFIN and others on this thread who have successfully weathered this - presumably your partners did disclose at work/to family and can I ask are there consequences with these peoples views now and how are they dealt with?

Hope you are getting pleasure in your pregnancy inspite of it all RBJ, must be feeling fluttery kicks now-ish...

Stay strong, stay focused. You certainly come across as a woman who he would so unutterably foolish to lose.

Its been a tough weekend. DH sent me a sweet email on friday asking if he could come home and put DD to bed and stay the night so he could be with us in the morning as well as he was missing us so much. I said yes but he would have to stay in spare room. I was kind of expecting that he would be telling me how much he missed me etc etc but instead we ended up having a blazing row which was exhausting and dreadful and left me feeling very confused.

Anyway things got better over the weekend. He was very sorry the next day and said like he felt we needed to get it out of his system. It was like he was badgering me to provoke an emotional response.

I asked him to spend some time reading Shirley Glass and he's actually finding it really helpful. He's admitted that he's confused about what he wants ie whether he's committed to making the marriage work and worried that it won't. He knows that he doesn't want to move in with her and that if he did move out it would be on his own so he could spend time thinking about what he wants.

Its hard for me to deal with his ambivalence about our relationship but think we should spend time working on this in our next counselling session which is tomorrow.

My emotions are all over the place. I go from being really upset and distraught to wanting to have sex. I know this is normal behaviour so will just go with it and be honest about how I feel.

After reading this book he does have more empathy for how I feel. As far as I'm concerned the affair is still going on as they are still friends although he says that there are no emails, meetings or phone conversations.

I think that we could get past this and it would make us stronger but there's a long way to go yet.

Anyway that's a brief summary. he's moved back home but staying in the spare room and he will stay there until we both know that we are both committed to making it work.

An update since I drafted that last post is that I've been feeling quite low today and yesterday since discovering some pictures of DH and OW with colleagues on a work night that DH had uploaded on MY laptop. Nothing incriminating but arms around each other kind of stuff.

A) Was he laughing at me when he uploaded them onto my laptop??
B) I told him last night that I'd found them and he needed to delete them. He said sorry but I don't think he realises how humiliating it is and he still hasn't deleted them which, TBH, is taking the piss.

So I could delete them myself but why hell should I?! \he should feel so mortified that he deletes them straight away.

Anyway this 'discussion' is to be continued this evening but I;m now feeling quite dispairing of it all.

Again I know I will be bouncing off the walls in terms of emotions but it's quite hard to keep up the commitment.

I think he's moved back too soon RBJ. That means he's still got home comforts, while thinking he can "get this out of his system" - and is in proximity to you and your desire for him.

Pleased he's reading the book, but make sure he's not "selective reading" about how easy it is for these things to happen, thereby finding himself a justification.

It sounds to me as though there has been a shift back to you waiting for him to make a choice and a decision, whereas it needs to be as much about whether you could ever forgive, or have him back.

Let us know how the counselling goes. I hope that s/he is challenging.

How are you RBJ?

Hello all. Thanks for checking up on me!

Summary of recent few days:

• Last counselling session counsellor was 'taken aback' at DH's indifference to how I am feeling and his overall indifference
• As the physical affair has ended he thought that humiliation for me would be over (put him right on that front)
• Session was spent analysing how as an only child just with his mother after parents' divorce, and then with me before DD, he has always had the undivided attention of a woman and counsellor wasn't surprised that OW is older

DH then decided that it would be ok to stay out until 3am drinking with mates. I'd said I didnlt mind him going ourt for a few drinks but wasn't expecting him to stay out that late and didn't he think about my feelings at all? Argument ensued with me telling him that I wanted him to pack his bags and get out by Sunday (yesterday). Only then did he wake up and realise how hurt I was and spent most of the day apologising and telling me that he does want it to work. I said I needed to think about what I wanted now because none of this is good for my physical and emotional well being.

Situation complicated by family staying over the weekend so we had to pretend all was ok.

I've been to see the counsellor on my own today to try and get some clarity on my feelings.

DH hasn't moved out but is still in spare room. he says he does want it to work but he still has these feelings for OW. He needs to work on how to resolve these which we will need to tackle again in next counselling session. I do wonder whether he does really want to stay or whether that's because he feels it's the right thing to do. Also what level of friendship and contact with OW can I put up with if any at all?

We have a holiday booked for a week away, going next week. Counsellor sees this as a good opportunity for us to both get some clarity on what we want. He will be away from OW and it will just be the 3 of us.

I've just read this thread and to be honest I think he's taking the piss here and you are allowing him to get away with it.
My ex and father of Dd was a cheater so i speak from experience. what he's admitting to is probably about a quarter of wht is actually happening if not less.

i can't believe he is insisting on remaining friends with this woman!
He gave up the right to be friends with her when he crossed the boundaries of your relationship.
What's happening now should be about YOU not about what he wants!!!

Staying out til 3 am is unnaceptable. How are you supposed to know what he is doing? Whether he is with her or not? He absoluteley should not be doing this kind of thing at the moment if he is serious about regaining your trust.

As far as what level of freindship you should 'put up with' you shouldn't have to put up with any of this. He is being VERY unreasonable to expect you to accept that he will continue to be friends with her.
What's he going to do, invite her round to dinner at your house? They can't be friends after this.

Thanks for updating RBJ. The counsellor sounds good and I'm impressed that she has uncovered some mother issues in your H, this early.

However, I sense that you are still not sure of your boundaries and it would be well worth re-framing them.

Going out with his mates at the moment should not be happening AT ALL, let alone until 3a.m.
Did this happen before, or after your last counselling session? If it was afterwards, that worries me, because it seems to me he still doesn't get this - and although I have every sympathy for your plight, I'm not sure you do either.

He seems devoid of basic empathy that staying out drinking until 3a.m. would have had an effect on you, giving you flashbacks and nightmares about the many evenings spent with her. In fact, how do you know where he was and where she was that night? This is basic human kindness we are discussing. I'm not surprised the counsellor was taken aback.

The only acceptable level of friendship with the OW is none at all. He might be confused about his feelings for her and I can understand you thinking that this is a wrestle between what he thinks is the "right" thing to do - and what he wants to do, but he's doing all this in your time, while he still has the comforts of home around him. This is doing nothing to help him to face up to the reality of what his choices are.

Have a think about what your own boundaries are RBJ and don't be afraid to make conditions here and stick to them. Don't let anyone disempower you.

I think you have had great support, I just want to ask why do you want to stay with your husband, and what is so wrong with leaving? Have you done a pro and con list?

rbj, apologise ignore my post, i did not realise this had gone on to page four!

WWIFN wow, you really know your stuff!

I really think deep down that I won't be able to move forward and completely trust him unless he finds another job. I'm not sure I could handle him going to work every day knowing that he sees her and not knowing how they are interacting.

Has anyone successfully rebuilt a marriage when the OW/OM was a work colleague and they still work together? JGF book does talk about some scenarios where this may work but then I suppose it's what I'm comfortable with which is linked to my next point

I still don't believe he feels any remorse for the actual affair happening. He does for the hurt it has caused but he still sees this relationship as some special emotional connection which he then ends up comparing to our marriage. Until he sees the affair for what it is and in context rather than some special thing then how can I move forward? I think I know deep down that I am right on this but would welcome thoughts.

RBJ I am hoping that Happy Woman can come onto this thread, because her H and the OW did continue to work together, but this approach really didn't work and fortunately, her H left and found a new role. However, one of the keys for HW as I recall was that everyone in the workplace knew about the affair and its discovery and so there was a huge boundary to the affair partners ever getting involved in that way again.

If he continues to work with her, I would insist that work colleagues are told, especially his boss.

I think you are absolutely right about his feelings - guilt at the hurt caused, not guilt for his actions. I also think that all the while this is being contained within a bubble of you, the OW and him, he is not seeing this as a reality and it is strengthening his "deep emotional connection fantasies".

Exposing this to others, especially people whose opinions matter to him, would help burst this somewhat, No-one wants to think they are involved in a tawdry affair that started and ended like all the others, but he needs shaking out of this "true love" fantasy once and for all.

I am worried about how your boundaries are being breached all the time - by you most of all. You haven't followed through on any of your expectations RBJ - how you would behave if you discovered infidelity, making him move out permanently until he knew what he wanted, letting him come on this holiday...
Given how little respect he is showing you for your feelings, I don't think this can be helping. I don't want to make you feel worse, but empty threats won't be taken seriously next time.

Have you had a STI test yet and confided in your midwives?

Hi RBJ72: I have been following this thread but have not posted in the past as I didn't feel I could add anything more to the excellent advice that you have already received. I am posting now to tell you that I have managed to go on to sustain a successful and happy relationship with my DH after he had an affair with a work collegue. However our scenarios are wildly different. At the time of the affair (some 10 years ago) DH and I were living together, engaged but not married and with no children. We were also in the process of buying a flat together. I had suspected for months and managed to get quite a bit of evidence. The final nail in the coffin came in the form of a text message from OW that he just couldn't explain away. Still, like your DH, he tried to confess to as little as he possibly could and said that they had not slept together. I won't get into all the nitty gritty of it.

I had always said to him prior to me finding out for certain that if I did find out that he had been having an affair all this time despite months and months of denial from him then that would be it. There would be no going back. And I stuck fast to that. I made him move out immediately. I told his friends and his family what he had done. The industry that DH works in is quite small and incestous and so everyone in his work knew what had happened, and outside of his company too. He couldn't hide from it. He had no choice but to face his behaviour. In public. That made it easier for me to be strong and stand by my decision not to let him back. And so we split for over a year and lead entirely seperate lives. He continued to work with the OW and they actually carried on going out with each other for a time(despite him telling me at the time it all came out that it was over). Anyway, we eventually came to a mutual decision well over a year later to start seeing each other again. We took things very very slowly. I had changed a lot in the time we had apart. But more importantly so had he. I can honestly say that having that time apart is one of the main contributing factors to us getting through it. We both had time to decide what we really wanted. And it turned out it was still each other. This was 10 years ago and we now have 2 children together and are very happy.

I'm sorry, this has turned into an essay!

Thing is RBJ72, I really don't think that DH is showing the appropriate level of remorse and guilt about all of this. He should be desperate to put things right and to make things better and he just seems, at best, ambivalent about the situation and your feelings, and at worst, utterly cold-hearted and un-caring to the situation that he has placed you and his family in.

Am I right in thinking that nobody actually knows about this other than your friend in Oz, the OW and the counseller? And after a very brief period of you requesting that he stay away that he is now back in your home? And staying out drinking until 3am? Does he comprehend the seriousness of the situation atall??! He seems to be taking this all very very lightly, and you appear to be enforcing this by allowing him back in the house and not demanding that he cut all contact with the OW.

I know it must be so so difficult for you with a little one and another on the way. But I truly believe that without time for reflection and ruminations, on both sides, that you won't get through this. But even without that, fundamentally he needs to be taking responsibility for what he has done. And he hasn't done so far. And you are allowing him to get away with it.

RBJ - hope things are ok.

I was in this situation, RJ, in counselling. We ultimately divorced. You asked about boundaries for his visits home. I would suggest:

1. Don't ask him to do any little jobs around the house. I know it's tempting. But you have to act independently. If something needs repairing, find someone to do it for you. I did this and it really shook ex-DH up, showing him he was out and this wasn't his home any more and I could cope without him.

Actions speak louder than words.

1. Don't feed him or let him pick at leftovers. Put all food away.

1. Look your best - not to get him back, for your self-respect. Wear something new and it bit different, younger from your usual style.

1. Only discuss the children. Nothing else. Not the relationship - leave that to the sessions.

1. Do not ask him how he is spending his time!

1. Act busy. Get some info on new activities. Leave some tickets lying around.

1. Does he have a key? It's much better if he has to ring the bell!

Sometimes you have to act 'as if' you are doing better than you are. Men, in my opinion, don't reform because they are told to. They change because they want to.

Oh, and don't help him with anything. If he asks about some domestic detail or something you usually do it, tell him to go to the relevant website and click under FAQ's.

You can talk to him all you like but in my opinion it's how you act that matters.

In the end, in my case, we divorced because I changed so much and realized I could cope without him and his selfishness.