Dh lost his temper

[Notwithme]

Ds1 is 4.5 and a bit of a handful at bedtime. Have been trying for some time to improve his behaviour through all the usual methods.

We have started having a zero tolerance policy which we knew would mean his behaviour would get worse before it got better. However tonight dh snapped.

Ds was kicking his bedroom door as his stories had to finish early. Dh threw open the bedroom door and kicked him i don't know how hard but ds really cried, probably more out of fear than pain.

Dh initially didn't want me to go in as he said that would undermine him but I had none of it. Went in and comforted ds who went to sleep.

Told dh in no uncertain terms that if he ever did anything like that i would make him leave. Dh says that he isn't proud of his behaviour but just lost it. However he hasn't really apologised to me or ds. We have disagreements as he thinks I'm too soft on ds but this is just violent bullying.

What do I do? Please don't all pile in saying it's a slippery slope etc. He is a loving father and a bit hot headed at times but never been abusive before.

I can't bring myself to look at him.

I had a similar thing 2 days ago.

notwithme what did women's aid say to you?

My DS is 3 and going through a hitty stage. He punched me DH hard and he retailiated.

I told him in no uncertain terms that if he ever hits our Ds in anger again he is out of the house.

We don't smack at home so I was very shocked.

I don't think that it will happen again. I won't tolerate it if it does. It wasn't that he smacked our son, it was the way he did it in anger.

But did they give you any specific advice for rebuilding the trust? I need to know that he can keep his temper.

My Dh is not a bad person. He is a good father who lost his temper.

I'm sorry if this is a hijack, but I really want some advice beyond 'he's abused your child kick him out'.

To be fair, I don't think a frustrated child needs to be taught to kick the door that's shutting him in. There seems to be something of a kicking trail in the family that makes it look weird ... and, being all psychological about this trail, maybe the fact that he WAS kicking triggered the father to kick back.

It's not the issue, though. No matter the whys and wherefores, it's unacceptable to lash out. At anybody. The fact that the target was a child makes a bad thing worse.

Nagoo, who's the last person your DH hit before DS?

Oh for fucks sake, everyone stop bleating on about leaving your partner all of the time and come up with a new line!

OP, sit down and talk to your partner. It is completely unacceptable and make sure he apologises to your ds, and to you.

Sorry, forgot to add, make sure he promises to never do such a horrible thing again.

So how is it unreasonable to apply 'zero tolerance' to a kicking father, when the same father is applying it to his child?

I'm not "bleating" by the way, but it IS a serious issue and IS likely to escalate if unaddressed. They won't settle for an apology from DS if he's been playing up - and DS is only 4! How come an adult, who's supposed to know how to moderate his behaviour, should get away so lightly?

I have been thinking about this post and quietly lurking. OP I think you must protect your ds. If you don't then you are agreeing to your h's methods of 'discipline'.
Did you tell h that you rang WA? I wonder if you did and that is why he has apologised? Sorry if that is cynical, but really hoping this never happens again.
I was beaten by my mother, kicked punched slapped pushed etc. Now I have problems telling the bad guys from the good IYKWIM. I feel extremely sad for your ds, he will be frightened, and may now only be 'good' to stop daddy from losing it. The only thing is, he won't yet understand what he did wrong, and will think violence is acceptable. Please watch over him carefully, he will start to be very quiet, especially in front of his father. Your h will then think his 'method' works and will continue to frighten him.
I am sorry, but I am another one who thinks violent men or women do not change. They only get worse. By the time I was 15 my mother would hit me until I collapsed and not allow me to seek medical help.
I don't know how I survived. I guess she worked out how to beat me enough to force submission without being caught.
Please look after your ds, put him first

Spareroomsleeper her husband KICKED a 4 year old child! If he had done the same to an adult he could well be facing prison.

If anyone did that to my children I wouldn't have a cosy chat I'd be more inclined to involve the police.

Some people just don't know right from wrong, including you it seems.

Have spoken to DH. He knows that it can't happen again. He said that he was taking ds back to bed and ds kicked him and he instinctively kicked back. It's not an excuse but that's what he said happened.

I have said that in no uncertain terms that it will not happen again. No excuses, no explanation. That's just how it is. I think he gets that now.

And no we have not been on a parenting course and yes I did speak to my health visitor about dealing with bedtime. We decided the best strategy was to ignore the attention seeking behaviour which we were until this. Dh is also aware that he has undermined what we were trying to achieve.

what are you doing to reward positive behaviour? what feedback is he getting for behaving well?

You think he gets it?

Does he ever 'instinctively' lash out at anyone else?
Did he apologise to your kid? Or you?

And I can't believe that you seem most perturbed that his behaviour has 'undermined what we were trying to achieve'! He kicked your four your old son!

I think I have to step away from this thread now. Your poor little boy. From what you are saying it sounds like this will escalate.

No, Glastocat, I'm not most perturbed that 'DH has undermined what we are trying to achieve' - that's why this thread was not entitled 'DH undermined our sleep strategy' Obviously. DH apologised to him unconditionally and told him that he was wrong.

Yes he has rewards for positive behaviour. We have spoken to the health visitor about it and we have been referred to the sleep therapist.

Who was the last person he "instinctively" kicked/punched, NWM?

Notwithme-I think you are handling this awful situation well.

You immediately comforted your DC, you have sought advice from Womens Aid, you have made it clear that if anything like this ever happens again, he is out.

I once lashed out at someone, when I was about 19 (my younger brother was being a complete pain) I threw a MIRROR at him!! Luckly it missed, but at the time I was so angry I wished it hadnt.

25 years later I am still horrified by my behaviour, I could have killed him! However my parents didnt kick me out or call the police. They knew my behaviour was totally out of character.

Surely if the OP knows this behaviour was not typical, then she should be allowed to give her DH a second chance, and not be berated for this.

Hmmm
Its a horrible horrible thing that the dh did - of course it is. But if the OP had come on and said that she lost it and smacked her ds, the responses would be much different.

I know kicking(from a grown man) is different than a smack in terms of potential force - but everyone would say "you lost it, everyone does, parenting is hard - learn your lesson, apologise and move past it."

Her DH should also get one more shot. No-one is perfect. It was appalling what he has done, but he deserves a chance to make amends, learn from it and become a better parent.

Who here has NEVER done something they regret wrt parenting?

Surely compassion and forgiveness is a lesson to pass on to kids?

ONCE that is. Any more violence and his ass should be turfed :)

"Who was the last person he "instinctively" kicked/punched, NWM?"

Not a fair questions Ele, unless you include "in retaliation to being kicked/punched himself"

Of course when a child hits you, you shouldn't retaliate in kind, but hitting/kicking back is instinctive, particularly if the initial attack comes as a surprise.

I know I've had to restrain an impulse to hit back when my DD (who is only 2) has hurt me unexpectedly. It isn't even an anger thing, or a loss of control, just a response to a stimulus I'm not used to.

I hadn't been hit by anyone for years before having a child. I find the physicality of our relationship, from breastfeeding, to cuddles, to horseplay, to (occasional) hitting (always her on me, I hasten to add) quite overwhelming at times.

I hope you are OK Notwith. How is your DS now? What was his response to the apology?

ski...the difference here is that you restrained yourself, albeit with difficulty (have been there, of course I have)

I think the biggest problem here is the aftermath, tbh

His defensiveness was immense, and, I hope, borne out of sheer guilt and feeling overwhelmed at the enormity of the line he had crossed

because I would be feeling very uncomfortable at this "let's hope there isn't a next time" mentality

because what comes next after kicking a 4yo ????

Yes, Any, I totally agree with you.

I just think that the OP has a very difficult decision to make here in terms of protecting her son.

If she accepts the apology and hopes this is a one-off, there is the risk that she is wrong and the child suffers harm.

If she makes her DH leave there is a certainty that her son will suffer (less serious) harm, and the possibility that the harm was unnecessary because this was a one off incident.

What is better for her son? That is not an easy decision.

Neither choice is a good one. This is a complicated situation and I'm just trying to steer away from seeing it in simple terms.

It is a difficult and delicate situation for OP. It's a relief that she's not dismissing it out of hand, as some posters would, as it's serious. Can I just remind some of you, this wasn't a retaliatory gesture? The child was kicking the door not the man. He had to open the door to kick the kid.

IfGraceAsks The OP says at 8.31 "DS kicked him and he instinctively kicked back"

"Ds was kicking his bedroom door as his stories had to finish early. Dh threw open the bedroom door and kicked him i don't know how hard but ds really cried"

I read that as little boy was kicking the shut door, from inside his room, with man outside the door. Man "threw open" the door and kicked the little boy.

So he was revenging the door, rather than his own leg, which would still be bad but more understandable in terms of reflex.

That's odd, QLB, in the OP it sounded as if she had witnessed what happened. But later she is taking her H's word that something different happened, albeit sounds rather cynical about it.

Which was it, OP?

I think I should clarify. DS was kicking the door, DH opened it, went to put him back in bed and DS kicked him instead. DH kicked him back.

I realise I didn't put this exactly in my OP but this was after talking to DH last night.

I'm still not excusing it, and I don't think that makes it OK.

But I don't think it warrants ending a 15 year marriage.

Obviously it must never happen again and DH is quite clear on that.

Thank you for all your advice.