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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Dh lost his temper

85 replies

Notwithme · 23/08/2010 23:18

Ds1 is 4.5 and a bit of a handful at bedtime. Have been trying for some time to improve his behaviour through all the usual methods.

We have started having a zero tolerance policy which we knew would mean his behaviour would get worse before it got better. However tonight dh snapped.

Ds was kicking his bedroom door as his stories had to finish early. Dh threw open the bedroom door and kicked him i don't know how hard but ds really cried, probably more out of fear than pain.

Dh initially didn't want me to go in as he said that would undermine him but I had none of it. Went in and comforted ds who went to sleep.

Told dh in no uncertain terms that if he ever did anything like that i would make him leave. Dh says that he isn't proud of his behaviour but just lost it. However he hasn't really apologised to me or ds. We have disagreements as he thinks I'm too soft on ds but this is just violent bullying.

What do I do? Please don't all pile in saying it's a slippery slope etc. He is a loving father and a bit hot headed at times but never been abusive before.

I can't bring myself to look at him.

OP posts:

Original poster

Notwithme · 24/08/2010 12:22

Kathy, that's exactly what the womens aid lady said.

I will of course do that and see how it goes. From a personal pov I think dh has broken my trust which I need to deal with.

OP posts:

grapeandlemon · 24/08/2010 12:25

mumonthenet · 24/08/2010 13:04

Agree with Kathy,

The whole key to resolving this situation is that he must apologise UNCONDITIONALLY to your son.

If he can't do that, because he still feels that he was ENTITLED to do what he did...then you have a problem.

Hope it all works out for you.

BertieBotts · 24/08/2010 15:22

Slippery slope? Where exactly do you think this slope is heading, if you are not already there??

I am sorry, I know this must be hard to hear, but this IS completely unacceptable. I know it's going to seem ridiculous now that this has happened and you are back to normality and not in that moment any more, but just recall it - just remember how horrified you must have felt and how terrified your DS must have been in that split second. You would absolutely not be unreasonable to ask your DH to move out for a few days, or take your DS to visit family or something, to give you some thinking time. It might be that it was a genuine mistake and one off and you can sort it out, but you absolutely can not sweep it under the carpet, never talk about it again and just hope that it never happens again. You say you have told him that if it happens again, you will kick him out - well, sorry, he KNOWS that it was unacceptable, I think you should seriously think about asking him to leave, even if just for a trial period or a few days - Your DH has to see you won't allow

I am just going to try and write the rest of the post from an unemotional point of view - firstly, it sounds like very shocking and unexpected behaviour, and I am concerned as to why this would be an instinctive reaction - to most people, it would not be. You don't have to answer this here, but is your DH from an abusive family himself? Is he a confrontational person in general?

Secondly, I find it concerning that immediately after the event he was not horrified at himself, but stuck by his action, telling you not to go in in case it undermined him. To me this means that - perhaps not now, but in the moment, he felt his behaviour was reasonable, and didn't see anything wrong or to be ashamed about.

Thirdly, you say he has not "really" apologised to you or DS - again this is worrying. Why is he not horrified at his own behaviour? Why does his son not deserve an apology for his overreaction? Does he feel on some level that he deserved it?

Sorry, wrote this last night and then fell asleep so I have probably x-posted with loads of people.

BertieBotts · 24/08/2010 15:37

Sorry, I really should have checked for new replies before posting that, I can see now it was probably a bit strong. I am glad to hear you have got in contact with Women's Aid and it sounds like they have given you good advice. I hope that everything works out for the best and you have good support around you. You will always find good support on mumsnet either way :)

spikeycow · 24/08/2010 19:03

That sounds awful. Why won't he apologise? Does he think it's justified in the name of discipline? That wasn't discipline, the child was getting on his nerves and he kicked out in rage to relieve his irritation. He needs to understand that difference. Would he kick a work colleague who was pissing him off?

spikeycow · 24/08/2010 19:04

And not wanting his child to be comforted after

skidoodly · 24/08/2010 19:04

Bertie's right about the undermining thing.

I think it's very important for parents to show a united front and not undermine one another. But if you lose it to the point you kick a child, that child needs to be protected from you and undermining doesn't come into it.

Even thinking for a second that a 4 year old you just kicked doesn't deserve to be comforted so that your authority is preserved is pretty fucked up. That's the bit I really can't get my head around.

What's he saying now?

I think you have a problem even if he's apologised unreservedly of his own accord, but if he hasn't you have a very big problem.

Good work for calling Women's Aid. I know in your position I would really be struggling with what to do got the best.

Tippychoocks · 24/08/2010 19:07

Good for you for getting help

Slice it where you like though, this is still a big person hurting a small person. He's teaching your son it's OK to hurt people if you lose your temper and that you don't need to be sorry. Why won't he apologise to your son?

Original poster

Notwithme · 24/08/2010 20:18

He has apologised to DS. We are still on tentative speaking terms. We haven't talked about it properly yet.

I don't think he came from an abusive family but I think his father was quite volatile. There was a family anecdote about his Dad kicking his bedroom door down when he was a teenager which I didn't find that funny .

I did tell my brother about it today who was kind of 'yeah, it can happen' which wasn't the level of understanding I was looking for.

OP posts:

spikeycow · 24/08/2010 20:27

I can't believe your brother wasn't horrified. What if your son was 2 and in the middle of a tantrum. I don't see the difference.

skidoodly · 24/08/2010 20:57

It can happen?!

Notwith I really don't know what to say.

You should make time to sit down and talk about it properly as soon as you can. It would help a lot to know how he's thinking about this.

It's good that he apologised. If he's as ashamed of himself as he should be, maybe he's feeling sheepish about what you're going to say to him.

BertieBotts · 24/08/2010 21:11

Hmm. I guess your brother has a point - children can be wearing and parents do snap and break their personal boundaries - whether that's shouting something they regret or smacking or something similar. DS was pulling at a cable on the laptop the other day and I couldn't unclench his fingers from around it and I was frightened he was going to pull the whole thing down on his head, and I ended up pushing him and he fell against the wall onto the floor and I felt awful :(

The difference in this situation is I immediately went to him and said "Oh DS, I am so sorry, are you okay??" Whereas your DH was in the moment immediately following the incident asking you to back him up and then refusing to apologise some time afterwards, rather than it being his first instinct to apologise and comfort his son as he recognised that he'd overstepped the line. THAT is what is worrying, not the fact that he snapped and hurt him in the first place. And the fact that it was a kick which is a lot more aggressive than a smack, which might be just as wrong, but can come naturally if that is how you were disciplined as a child, or something like pushing/pulling a child roughly away from something dangerous. But perhaps as you say if his father was kicking down doors etc he might not see that.

Does that make sense though? I think perhaps your brother was not meaning to trivialise it, but reassure you, and is probably imagining a scenario similar to the first one I described.

PussinJimmyChoos · 24/08/2010 21:13

He kicked a four year old

What size shoe does your DH wear and how small is your DS's four year old little leg -or wherever it was he kicked.......

abbierhodes · 24/08/2010 21:16

'I don't think he came from an abusive family'....well do you know him, or not?

I'm sorry, I'm really struggling here. Your DH kicked your son, refused to apologise and you're still speaking to him?

'From a personal pov I think dh has broken my trust which I need to deal with.' For some reason, this has really annoyed me. What about rebuilding the trust of your four year old?

Just like at the beginning of the thread when you asked us not to pile in, you seem much more concerned about your own feelings than the reality of the situation.

It really worries me that you are not more angry about this...indicates to me that something else is wrong here.

loopyloops · 24/08/2010 21:27

Goodness me.

It is so easy for me sitting here to be black and white about this, and I appreciate it must be much harder for you, but there is no way someone who had purposefully kicked my 4 year old child would ever be trusted again. Sorry, but I would have to ask him to leave, at least until he had completed an anger management course.

A child should feel safe in their own home. If they aren't, then as far as I'm concerned, all adults in the household must share the blame for not protecting them.

Even if it isn't a "slippery slope", how can you ever forgive him for this? How will you trust him? How will your son ever trust him?

I hope you're OK, and that your little boy is too. :(

skidoodly · 24/08/2010 21:57

I think if I had kicked one of my children deliberately in anger (and not accidentally in dancing, which I have done) I would be talking about leaving myself until I had sorted out an anger management course.

Knowing that I hadn't got enough control to stop myself from doing that would terrify me.

abbierhodes · 24/08/2010 22:16

I agree, skidoodly. I feel guilty when I shout at mine.

for the OP's little boy.

Alouiseg · 24/08/2010 23:10

and horror. I wouldn't give house room to anyone who kicked a 4 year old.

:( :(:(

LynetteScavo · 24/08/2010 23:16

I'm imagining the DH was barefoot.

loopyloops · 24/08/2010 23:57

I really hope so LS :(

cestlavielife · 25/08/2010 00:13

had you been on some kind of parenting course before going for the behaviour project? had you both sought advice eg from HV or GP on what to do? hava you looked into positive parenitng courses eg local sure start etc? who initiated the "zero tolerance"? was it linked with rewarding good behaviour eg star charts etc or just about punishing bad?

where did he learn kicking doors from?

sounds like your H has a huge problem and you cant just carry on as before -- if he accepted responsibility, make moves to go get advice/help/attend parenting courses etc - then perhaps some hope...but volatile angry men dont change - they get worse.... if he comes from a family where it is ok to kick down doors etc...

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 25/08/2010 01:08

You're right skidoodly (sorry but am :) at your violent dancing), most people would be aghast at themselves, and would be more worried about being a danger to their DC than about their authority FGS.

I feel sure there is more to it than this. Is he a controlling person, OP?

tallwivglasses · 25/08/2010 01:25

How are you, Not with me?

tallwivglasses · 25/08/2010 01:28

Sorry, meant Notwithme. You okay?

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