it's all such a mess now and I don't know what to do

[AnAngelWithin]

Don't even know why I am posting really. I know there is nothing anyone can do, but I need a rant I suppose.

Anyway, 12 years of marriage, dc5 born 9 weeks ago. Past year has been tough since I was assaulted and put in hospital and with the pregnancy too. DH gradually become more and more distant. Ended up feeling as though he was repulsed by my shape being pregnant. Just got on with it. The past few weeks have been even worse. Then all of a sudden, a few days ago, DH is all over me. Really weird. He had been texting so much the past few months and using up all the credit on his phone that I checked his phone records, and there was one number on there that was text over and over and over. I confronted him and he said it was a mate from work. Gave him the benefit of the doubt. Then when he started trying to be all over me he almost made himself look more suspicious to me.

Anyway yesterday, he left his phone at home. He had a lock on it. So I took the sim out and put it in mine. Wrong I know, and to be honest I wish I hadn't. Messages on the sim showed up on my phone, saying things like 'we couldn't get round that corner quick enough......' and 'how can you still want me after what happened on thursday....' and 'what if we had got caught...' I felt sick and my legs collapsed from under me reading them. So I rang his work and said 'i know whats going on, you've been rumbled'...silence...'don't bother coming home'.... he asked what i meant and I told him what I had found and he said that he would come home and explain. Told him not to bother. 2 hours later (he works 4 miles away) He came back and at first he was just really cross that I had looked at his phone. I told him I only did it cos I had good reason and that I was right. He said did the usual 'it's not what you think' routine. Then he tried to turn it on me saying he's been miserable since I was assaulted cos the woman who did it went to him and said i was having an affair with her husband (which i swear on my kids lives, fathers grave and anything else i cherish that I haven't and wouldn't. He is a slimey b&%$d and I wouldn't even look at him let alone anything else) So in a way I think he was trying to justify his actions. He left after half an hour and went back to work. Came back after work. In the end he said that it was just someone he had met through work and they got chatting and started texting. Then he said it started getting 'silly' (he wouldn't explain what he meant by 'silly') so he stopped it. He ended it last week apparently before it got 'too serious' Yet I have just looked at his phone records again and he was still texting her all day on wednesday when he was off work and supposed to be with me and the kids and while I was in hospital with our baby having her hips scanned.

I asked him what she meant by the things she said in her texts, and he just kept saying 'i don't know I can't remember, my heads messed up and I've got so much going on right now' I said 'how would i know...you don't talk to me, you talk to HER' He said it was just someone to talk to. I asked him so many time to talk to me over the past year and he wouldn't. Obviously didn't need to if he had someone else to talk to. Shes some posh business woman who is a bit older than him. Everything I am not. I don't know what to believe. He asked if he could come back after work today and talk things through which I agreed to cos at the end of the day we have got 5 kids to consider, and even now I still stand by what I have always said in that I would never stop him seeing the kids if anything happened between us (unless it was something totally unforgivable, violence etc) and he knows that.

To me, the things I read aren't the sort of things you just text, it sounds like more happened. He said he hardly sees her cos she lives ages away and she only goes to his work now and again. But he did admit that he felt they were getting closer but he realised he loved me and ended it cos he didn't want it to 'get too far'

I said that he must have been attracted to her in the first place to exchange numbers. He said he wasn't and they were just friends and it looked like it was developing into something else so he stopped it. Apparently he's been texting her for over a year, so basically while we were trying to concieve dd3

I just don't know what to do to be honest. I do love him, and part of me can't imagine a life without him, but there is no way on this planet I will ever trust him again, and I think that once the trust has gone, theres no real base for a relationship. Before we got married he 'kissed' a friend of mine at a party after sending me home in a taxi cos i was a little tipsy. It was 'just a kiss' but the trust started to crumble then really I suppose. Hindsight eh!?

its a pay as you go phone though. i can only view the past so many messages etc.

he doesn't even know how to turn a computer on let alone email! lol. Anything he has set up, i always sort, passwords etc. That's how I checked his phone useage in the first place!

don't obsess with this either, as far as you feel safe, you'll be alright...

'He says that she got quite needy with her texts and has been bitter with him after he rejected her advances, so probably she said they actually kissed just to get back at him? The last text she sent to me was very much a 'yes i'll mix things up between you and sod off and leave you to deal with and make out that i am the victim seeing as he doesn't want me' If that makes sense? '

He is not only lying to you in the most outrageous way, he has now turned on this woman and is accusing her of trying to stir things up? Better believe he has also said similar things about you to her behind your back.

So she is needy and bitter, predatory and vengeful . And he has valiantly resisted her advances for a year while all the time you have felt alone and miserable and he has texted her in the night, from your bedroom . This is a heap of hooey.

The only way this makes any sense is if your H is a completely spineless, horrible, lying, deceiving, manipulative piece of pondscum.

And what exactly does he mean by this constant phrase -- 'he didn't realise how bad it looked?' This is the thought of a deeply deceptive person.

Yes, it didn't just look bad, it was bad. Very bad. And certainly worse than he's admitting now.

You need to go to Relate. He is not being honest about what he has done and has not taken responsibilty for any of it.

It is way too early for you to promise not to mention ow again.

Why have you allowed the affair you didn't have to be made equivalent to the one he did have?

Yes Skidoodly is spot on here -- 'Why have you allowed the affair you didn't have to be made equivalent to the one he did have?'

So he'll stop telling lies about you if you'll stop telling the truth about him, essentially?

I read this on another thread:
Lying isn't something he does, it's something he is.

It might be tempting to think this can all go away and you can get on with your life, but no matter how it turns out, cheating changes everything. You can never return to things as they were after something like this.

people, remember, we need to be positive, it is her decision to make, we can point out flaws with it, but we should avoid making statements like the last sentence. we are only here to support her, not to pry, this isn't a soap.

angel, it is your life, and we can say an opinion or even judge, it doesn't matter wether we agree with what you doing or not, you know what will make you happy, just be careful out there, as we all must be.

maybe it is a bit early to make a firm decision and you need to give a bit of though, you can start slowly, like dating again, make him proof himself if you want to take him back, if in 3 months time, you decide you want to kick him out, do just that. just be happy.

mathanxiety im not expecting it to just go away. Yes it will change everything but there's no harm in trying to work through it and say i gave it a damned good go instead of just giving up. At least if I try I will be stronger than he thinks at least. You can call him pondscum if you like, that's your opinion, but he is still my husband at the end of the day.

'Why have you allowed the affair you didn't have to be made equivalent to the one he did have?' At the end of the day it has caused as much grief for us as this present situation!!

The problem I have is I don't have proof that anything DID happen. Same as he has no proof that it DIDN'T. We are in the same boat.

At the moment, we are just concentrating on having time with the kids seeing as it is his week off. We are being civil with each other. We have light conversation in the evening, sat at opposite ends of the sofa. I know it's not going to be easy, but hoping counselling will help.

OMG you are not in the same boat!

Not even remotely.

You were assaulted because of a false accusation against you and your husband holds that against you.

He has been unfaithful to you and is refusing to be honest about what has happened.

You are the one being treated like shit in both situations.

You think that because he is continuing to deny an affair you know he had, that it is the same as you denying an affair you didn't have?

The only way you can see those two unrelated situations as being in any way thr same is if you see things entirely from his perspective.

Hi Angel, someone made a good point on my thread - that there may be a sense of being in limbo immediately afterwards. I'm certainly experiencing it. Like you we are spending time with the children making sure they are enjoying this family time. But I'm also finding it very confusing.
I gave H the benefit of the doubt last time, and he betrayed me again. I can't help but wonder that if I had been more assertive and insistant about counselling in particular, it might have left a longer legacy!
Take each day at a time, and at some point every day take yourself off for some headspace. X

'Why have you allowed the affair you didn't have to be made equivalent to the one he did have?' At the end of the day it has caused as much grief for us as this present situation!!

The problem I have is I don't have proof that anything DID happen. Same as he has no proof that it DIDN'T. We are in the same boat.

What Skidoodly says goes for me too.
You are being treated like shit. And you are not in the same boat. You have just had your 5th child and you're recovering from an assault, dealing with a lonely pregnancy (thanks to him), and now all that goes with having 5 children including a little baby. (I have 5 myself and I know something of the effort involved), while he has amused himself with a work colleague willing to give him more attention /flattery than you could. There's no equivalence here.

I am guessing that the assault you suffered was the handy excuse and not the cause of anything your DH has chosen to do. At the end of the day it has caused as much grief for you as your DH has chosen to make it cause. He had choices all along as to how he would treat you, and he chose wrong each time.

If he is the one who has suggested that you have both hurt each other so you're equal then you have been the victim of a cunning manipulator who has not and probably will never take responsibility for what he has done.

How can you possibly have any chance of proving a negative? It's impossible. Accusations of infidelity by men who have given themselves permission to take whatever is on offer outside the home are classic tactics used by the completely unremorseful in order to shut up those they know they are hurting and so continue their adulterous ways. He can and should be completely open with you about what did happen -- and you have plenty of evidence that something did indeed happen.

There's rarely any black and white 'proof'. You could hire a PI if you really wanted to dig, and even then what you would get is a preponderance of evidence. You could follow him yourself in a car with a camera and stake out his workplace. Again, what you would end up with is various bits of evidence. He could come out with a full apology, full disclosure, but how would you ever know if he was really telling the whole truth? This is what I meant when I said cheating changes everything. Your head is never in the same place again. 'Proof' means really wrapping your mind around what you have. 'Proof' is really only one part of the decision-making process here for you. The other part is discerning what your 'line in the sand' is. This is a long-term process and the factors involved, the questions to be asked are -- How does all this make me feel, Is this a net plus or a drain on my life, What is this doing to me as a woman, maybe even Would I like to see a DD of mine treated like this?

in view of the last few post i have to say they are right, it is not the same, you were falsely accused, he had an affair even if it was only emotional, you have been a great mother and in my view, since you are willing to forgive, a great partner, he left you to deal alone with 4 kids and a pregnancy, you are willing to forgive him and he is the one getting to set the conditions for the future relationship, i think not.... sorry to tell you, but i wouldn't take him back unless he is willing to be your slave for a very long time. and he did not repent and confess, he got caught, he is just limiting damage now.

Yes, I agree -- limiting damage is exactly what he is doing. I don't think a man who says he can see 'how bad it all looked' has accepted he is in the wrong, or how exactly he is in the wrong, or the extent of the wrong he has done. You get to dictate the terms of the future relationship. Don't let him take the wheel again. He is clearly trying hard to do this.

Would you still give it a go if you won a couple of million on the lottery tonight? If you had the freedom to escape on your own terms?
I think he just sees you as furniture to be honest and that will only change if you do something about it.You won't be able to use his treacherous actions against him in six months will you.
I'm sorry this has happened to you and I think it would be really difficult to cope with 4 children and a newborn and a split. IMO I think you should be seriously planning for the future you want from now on.
Good luck with it and keep us posted.

if i won a couple of million, yes i would still be trying to work at it, i just wouldn't let him touch any money haha.

limiting damage? Maybe. But as you have all said, he is crap at lying, so if there is anything left to come out, it will eventually. I think hiring a PI or following him is a little extreme though!

We had quite a nice day yesterday. The ILs had 4 of the kids. Me, him and the baby just went out for lunch and round a few shops. We managed some light conversation. I am looking into counselling now really. Not sure where to start.

relate is a good place, your gp can also point out some counseling in your area and get you a place if necessary...

good luck, hope you can worked out,...

Angel, so sorry about everything that's been going on. I've only just caught up with everything.

This sounds so similar to something that happened between me & DH a couple of years ago - except he had dodgy emails and the dreaded facebook thrown in for good measure. Like your DH, he said he just hadn't realised how some of the things were that were being said. We managed to work through it, just like you are, on very strict conditions of him letting me access all of his internet and phone stuff at a moment's notice.

I don't think you live that far away from me, and I know I've said it before (so forgive me if I sound like a stuck record), but get in touch if you need a new pair of ears to vent to. I make good cups of tea and always have biscuits. But I totally understand that you would want to be spending the time sorting out things at home, but if you need anything while he's at work let me know. Either CAT me on here, or my email address is [email protected]

I know it's different for me because I don't have children, but I think even if I did, I'd be saying 'bye bye'. She's all yours! Good luck!! Don't bother contacting her. It won't achieve anything and won't make you feel any better. Tell him he's the biggest loser you've ever met and you think you can actually do better (which you probably can). Sounds like you'd be better off without him if this is the kind of pain he's willing to cause you. He's selfish. Let him go. One day he'll do the same thing to that woman and one day he'll end up a sorry, loney old man. Don't let this destroy your life (although I know its easier said than done). He will be the loser in the end, not you. I'd kick him out and not look back. xx

haworth, i apreciate your good intention, but we never know what we would do until it happens... it is for angel to decide if she can move on from it, providing things improve of course, and if she is happy to try to work it out, good for them, only time can tell what will happen... there is plenty of couples that recover from incidents like this, on both sides, is not always the man... and we are not talking about physical abuse, or the guy having another woman pregnant or... i don't mean to imply what he's done not matter, but i think is something they can recovered from, from what i read, we really have no idea and angel is the only one in a position to judge, so... good luck, we are here to support you.

dancing, i wish i was close so i can help with the biscuits,...

Sorry if I sounded hard faced about it. It's just not something I would be prepared to tolerate, but understand that couples can and do you recover from such things and I appreciate how complicated the situation is. I hope things can be worked out and happiness be found again, for all parties concerned. Personally, I would not have the tolerance for it. I'd let him go and I wouldn't even bother shedding a tear over it. But I do hope the best for the OP and wish her all the very best.

didn't mean to lecture you,

No, of course not! I didn't feel like you were. Your opinion is just as valid as mine. All I was saying was that if that was my OH, I would quite gladly show him the door and be glad to be rid of him. Left men for less than that! It's outright betrayal. An affair is not the answer to an unhappy relationship. He's losing far more than he will ever gain, and if he can't see that, then he doesn't deserve a loving wife and family. It's just my opinion and how I would deal with it. I have much respect for those who can make it through such situations and know that it's not impossible to make things right. Personally, one infedilty of any kind and I'd be kicking him to the kerb, kids or not. I'd rather be on my own than have to deal with his mid life crisis.

i agree with everything you just said, and i like to think i would leave at once, but i know people that said the same, and given the oportunity... they chose to stay, some are happy it worked out, others only found more dissapointment, you never know,...and i hope i never have to find out.

Angel, re the counselling - Relate offer phone counselling which I found helped me last week - and allowed me to talk through my own feelings. We are having independent counselling initially, then will go (face-to-face) together.

Its hard when you have 'normal' days and even a nice time together. Completely fogs that they have been utter wankers.

angel, how are things going?

Hello all.

I braved going into town on the train with all 5 kids for the first time today. I met up with an old school friend who texts regularly. It was very nice to get away from this place and have adult conversation. Also, unbeknown to me, she has been through the same with her DH, so it was nice to hear her perspective and how she's lasted the 5 years since it happened.

Nothing is any different really. He's got a day off tomorrow. We have agreed to take the children out somewhere for the day. I can always wander off somewhere if he gets too much. There are times in the day where I seem to 'forget' what's going on and then I remember how bad I feel and start crying. I sat here crying last night. H didn't know what to say. I don't think he knows what to even try to do to start trying to make anything better. But then...neither do i!...just mulling along I suppose.

Haworthview, you weren't harsh. I suppose some people are less likely to tolerate certain things.

Dancing, thank you for emailing me back. It's nice to know there's someone there.